Guest Smues Report post Posted June 1, 2003 Now that made my day. New York has a 7-1 lead going into the 5th, 4 errors and some bad pitching make it 7-6, another run for new york makes it 8-6 but their bullpin sucks and it's 8-8 right now meaning no win for Roger. MWahahahahaha how great. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted June 1, 2003 Next stop Wrigley Field! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest geniusMoment Report post Posted June 1, 2003 I hope he breaks his arm throwing his first pitch at Wrigley and never gets his 300th win. I bleed red both for the reds and red sox and that fucker deserves a broken arm and crushed dreams. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted June 1, 2003 Why because Dan Duquette got rid off him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted June 1, 2003 What did Clemens ever do to the Reds? Are you upset Roger left the Red Sox or something? As Verne said- blame Duquette not Rocket Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 1, 2003 I think he said that because the Reds are playing the yankees soon...But I dunno know... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Downhome Report post Posted June 1, 2003 I hope he does it soon for two reasons... 1) I've always been a fan of him. 2) He could very well be the last 300 game winner that we see for many years to come. I believe the only one that is LIKELY to do so is Greg Maddux, and after them there are two longshots in Tom Glavine and Randy Johnson. The days of the 300 game winner are about to come to an end, so it'll be great to see Rocket join the club. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 1, 2003 Maddux is only 20 games away...So I think he has a pretty great chance for it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Downhome Report post Posted June 1, 2003 Maddux is only 20 games away...So I think he has a pretty great chance for it... Oh yeah, I really think he'll do it. The only thing stopping him is himself, and injury. After Maddux we have Glavine who has 247 wins right now, Johnson has 225 wins, and then the only other guy with 200+ wins is Chuck Finley with 200 or so, I believe. It used to be, well it still is, that if you got 300 wins in a career, you were basicly automaticly in the Hall of Fame. I'll bet you anything that the number is lowered to around 250 or so in the next few years, because to tell you the truth, it'll be almost impossible for ANYONE to start a career in this day and age, and ever get to 300. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted June 1, 2003 Maddux is definetley getting 300- I believe he has 278. He'll get it sometime next year- he seems to have settled down after his slow start. Clemens v. Wood is an intriguing matchup since those are the only two guys to strike out 20 in a 9 inning game Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted June 1, 2003 I just hope Wood comes to pitch, he has the tendency to not have his head on straight alot of times. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Downhome Report post Posted June 1, 2003 Clemens v. Wood is an intriguing matchup since those are the only two guys to strike out 20 in a 9 inning game My God, how I'd love to be at that game! Not only will we see a hell of a pitching matchup, but history could be made. I just worry that Clemens might not get it there, because Wood has been on f'n fire here lately. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted June 1, 2003 I kinda want him to do it at Yankee Stadium so I can go to the game and witness it live. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Downhome Report post Posted June 1, 2003 I kinda want him to do it at Yankee Stadium so I can go to the game and witness it live. I'm sure you do, heh. I hope Greg Maddux can have the chance to do it in Atlanta, because if he can I'll be there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kingpk Report post Posted June 1, 2003 As to why Red Sox fans hate him so, read this Sports Guy column. Yeah, Duquette was a moron, but Roger didn't help things. Saying he wanted to be close to home and going to Canada, then later signing with the YANKEES for God's sake. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest geniusMoment Report post Posted June 1, 2003 I hate Roger because the red sox are my second favorite team. He is a traitor. No one boston player should go to New York. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 1, 2003 and Vice Versa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DrTom Report post Posted June 1, 2003 it'll be almost impossible for ANYONE to start a career in this day and age, and ever get to 300. That's reasonable true, but not because top pitchers today aren't as good as those who came up in Clemens' time. Hell, the A's have three young starters who are tremendous, and certainly have the talent and guile to win 300 games. The main disincentive nowadays is money: it takes 15 years at 20 wins a year to win 300, and considering what a top starter makes, they're already set for a dozen lifetimes after ten years in the bigs. THere's just no point in going out there every fifth day when you already have 200 wins and $100 million in the bank at age 34. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Downhome Report post Posted June 2, 2003 it'll be almost impossible for ANYONE to start a career in this day and age, and ever get to 300. That's reasonable true, but not because top pitchers today aren't as good as those who came up in Clemens' time. Hell, the A's have three young starters who are tremendous, and certainly have the talent and guile to win 300 games. The main disincentive nowadays is money: it takes 15 years at 20 wins a year to win 300, and considering what a top starter makes, they're already set for a dozen lifetimes after ten years in the bigs. THere's just no point in going out there every fifth day when you already have 200 wins and $100 million in the bank at age 34. Oh yeah, I didn't mean it because the talent isn't there. It's a mixture of things for me, and I'm sure other things come into play. For one, we have guys that go out in this day and age and only pitch every five days. That right there alone takes a good deal of wins from a lot of guys, seeing how the starting rotation didn't use to be so many guys. Then, and some don't believe this, but I feel that the "style" of many pitchers today is watered down from back in the day, and add that to the change in the SZ and to what I said above, it just isn't going to be possible to hit 300. It's an amazing feat, and I can't wait to see Roger and Greg pull it off! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted June 2, 2003 That's reasonable true, but not because top pitchers today aren't as good as those who came up in Clemens' time. Hell, the A's have three young starters who are tremendous, and certainly have the talent and guile to win 300 games. The main disincentive nowadays is money: it takes 15 years at 20 wins a year to win 300, and considering what a top starter makes, they're already set for a dozen lifetimes after ten years in the bigs. THere's just no point in going out there every fifth day when you already have 200 wins and $100 million in the bank at age 34. That argument doesn't sound right. If that were true, we'd have scores of players retiring long before their skills eroded. I think the problem is that managers have found that a fresh reliever is more effective than a starter who's thrown 100-120 pitches, meaning starters are credited with less wins/losses. Evolution of baseball has changed the way the game is played. It used to be, well it still is, that if you got 300 wins in a career, you were basicly automaticly in the Hall of Fame. I'll bet you anything that the number is lowered to around 250 or so in the next few years, because to tell you the truth, it'll be almost impossible for ANYONE to start a career in this day and age, and ever get to 300. In actuality, except for the odd Kaat, John, Blyleven trifecta, 250 wins punches your Cooperstown ticket. 300 is just another landmark. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DrTom Report post Posted June 2, 2003 That argument doesn't sound right. If that were true, we'd have scores of players retiring long before their skills eroded. Fair enough. I think the problem is that managers have found that a fresh reliever is more effective than a starter who's thrown 100-120 pitches, meaning starters are credited with less wins/losses. And couple that with the fact that middle relief isn't a position awash in talent. Overall, pitching's pretty thin in he big leagues, and it seems to take a big hit between the 6th and 8th innings. There are teams out there with dependable middle men, but there are also teams who wish they had a Mariano Rivera for whoever their John Wetteland is. Another factor, IMO, is the increased number of injuries. Blame it on whatever factor you want (the fact that kids don't throw as much as they did years ago is a popular theory), but it certainly seems like more pitchers are getting hurt these days than did in years past. For every Roger Clemens, who goes through his career mostly unscathed, there's a Matt Mantei, whose talent is only dwarfed by his medical chart. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Downhome Report post Posted June 2, 2003 Well all I've ever heard is that 300 is the magic number. There have been guys who had 287 and so that were kept out. They've been talking about the 300 number all day about getting in on ESPN and on all the radio programs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DrTom Report post Posted June 2, 2003 I think a lot of Hall voters realize the game has changed, though. While 300 wins is certainly a great milestone, I don't think it's required for a starter to get in anymore. If Pedro Martinez remains dominant throughout his career and finishes with 230 wins, how easily does anyone justify keeping him out? Hell, I've heard people talking about David Cone for the Hall, and he only had 194 wins. While I don't think he's Hall material, there are probably worse pitchers already enshrined. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RenegadeX28 Report post Posted June 2, 2003 All that matters is that we have Clemens, and the crappy Red Sox don't. Face is Sox, by the end of this season, you will be running into a brick wall, and end the season not accomplishing anything...like they usually do. Oh, and I heard the Yankees won.......score one for the good guys! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JHawk Report post Posted June 2, 2003 On the thought of 300 being the magic number for the HoF: Bert Blylevin (sp?) had something like 287 wins for a lot of shitty teams and still isn't in the Hall. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted June 2, 2003 I looked up on baseball-reference.com % of 300+ win pitchers in HOF: 100% % of 250+ win pitchers in HOF: 80% Obviously, 300 is indeed an automatic. Then again, so is 298. Blyleven's non-election puzzles me. He retired #3 on the all-time strikeout list, and that's significant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kingpk Report post Posted June 2, 2003 I think Blyleven pissed off voters when he said something in an interview a few years ago to the effect of "If they aren't going to induct me this year, just leave me off the goddamn ballot. I don't care anymore." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 2, 2003 Oh, and I heard the Yankees won.......score one for the good guys! They certainly did. And the Sox lost. Not like Red Sox fans would ever overlook something like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MaxPower27 Report post Posted June 2, 2003 I think Zito and Mulder will get to 300 down the road. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MarvinisaLunatic Report post Posted June 2, 2003 Its pretty cool that the AL East is now officially a 4 team race again for a while, with the Blue Jays being the hottest team in baseball right now and the Orioles playing good ball again. Toronto is going to screw up though going with the 4 man rotation. Someone's gonna blow their arm out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
