Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted June 2, 2003 This really bothers me that pitchers are complaining. The umpires weren't calling the strikezone like they where supposed too. The outside pitch which was called a strike is know being called a ball, and Curt Schilling throws a fit. That pitch is not a strike, and since the umpires weren't going to call it, I'm glad MLB is forcing them to do it. Hopefully something will be done about that letter-high ball that should be a strike. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Bosstones Fan Report post Posted June 2, 2003 Hopefully something will be done about that letter-high ball that should be a strike. I agree with you wholeheartedly Verne. During that 16-inning Cubs/Astros game this past weekend (yes, I watched it all), I counted at least 20 letter-high pitches that were called for balls that even the crowd reacted to. Something has to be done...I'm just not sure that this camera system is the answer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DrTom Report post Posted June 2, 2003 The problem is that umpires used to be comfortable in the knowledge that they could have their own "individual" strike zones which approximated the one in the rulebook. Thus, some chaps are referred to as "pitchers' umps," and some as "hitters' umps." With control of umprires now handled by the Commissioner's office, this stigma needs to be removed. Progress has been made, but there's still some work to be done. I'm glad the outside non-strike isn't being called as much this year. Now if they could eliminate the phantom tag at second base on double plays, I'd be happy. Regarding the high strike, though: I don't see it coming back. It died when umpires went from the outside "bubble" chest protector (which forced them to stand fairly upright) to the interior protector, which allows them to get on one knee behind the catcher. When a letter-high pitch comes in to a batter, it's at the umpire's head. Instinctively, a pitch at head level will not be called a strike. Unless MLB can reverse that mental polartity in its umpires, don't look for the high strike to make a glorious return. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest the pinjockey Report post Posted June 2, 2003 I agree with the fact though that some have writers have pointed out that they only have the system in 12-14 ? stadiums. It is not fair to make umps and pitchers act different in the different stadiums. Also, the system the guy has to draw the strike zone for each hitter and he draws it from the knees to the belt buckle. So anything between the belt buckle and letters that the ump rightly calls a strike is going to be seen as a ball. I don't think they should have set up the system til they were ready to go in all of the parks and they need to address the belt buckle strike zone problem, which they won't because it provides offense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted June 2, 2003 I can understand peoples complaints about the machine only being certain ballparks. They should be in all ballparks. There is a specific strikezone that umpires are supposed to call. It's unfortunte that a machine is needed, but what other option did MLB have. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DrTom Report post Posted June 2, 2003 It's unfortunte that a machine is needed, but what other option did MLB have. Not using the goddamn thing, for one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted June 3, 2003 Baseball could tell the umpires too call the strikezone by the rulebook. Of course the umpires would never listen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest two_tuff_toddy Report post Posted June 3, 2003 Human error is good for all sports. Noone is perfect. If they are going to use a camera for the strike zone they should just do away with the homeplate umpire and just put him somewhere else. Just leave it to baseball to find a way to slow down the game even worse than it already is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted June 3, 2003 Human error is good for all sports. Noone is perfect. If they are going to use a camera for the strike zone they should just do away with the homeplate umpire and just put him somewhere else. Just leave it to baseball to find a way to slow down the game even worse than it already is. So because its sucked for a hundred years, it should continue to suck? I don't understand the opposition. MLB is actually trying to do something good, improving the ball/strike calls of umpires through technology. If it leads to more accurate umpires, how can it be bad? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest two_tuff_toddy Report post Posted June 3, 2003 I guess I don't care enough about baseball for this to affect me that much either way. What they need to worry about more than anything is finding a way to shorten the time it takes to play a game IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted June 3, 2003 I understand what you're saying, and its a common frustration. I don't mind the length of games, but my peave is constant late inning pitching changes with involve 3 minute commercial breaks every time. I don't mind long games, but I have a hard time staying awake. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest two_tuff_toddy Report post Posted June 3, 2003 " my peave is constant late inning pitching changes with involve 3 minute commercial breaks every time. I don't mind long games, but I have a hard time staying awake. " This is probably the single most annoying thing for me in sports and is one of the main reasons why I can't watch a baseball game the doesn't involve the Cubs unlike other sports where I can pretty much watch any teams play. Another thing I hate why I'm thinking of it is when the last two minutes of a basketball game that is already a forgone conclusion lasts for like a half hour due to all the fouls and time outs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DrTom Report post Posted June 3, 2003 MLB is actually trying to do something good, improving the ball/strike calls of umpires through technology. They're trying to do something good, yes, but I'm not convinced that computerizing the ball-strike calls is the way to go about doing it. I like instant replay in the NFL, but I wouldn't want every call decided by a computer. Computers are only as good as the people who program and use them, so there's still human error in the chain no matter what. IMO, MLB could adopt instant replay, giving each manager three challenges per game to use on any call they want, including ball/strike. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted June 3, 2003 Giving instant replay on a ball/strike call is a BAD idea. Baseball could have replay for home run calls, where the play is 100ft. from the ump, but otherwise keep it out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DrTom Report post Posted June 3, 2003 But taking the call out of the umpire's hands (which is exactly what happens when you digitize the strike zone and have a computer report the results) is fine? I don't see that system as being any better than the one currently in place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted June 3, 2003 The time of games is gradually decreasing. The averge know is like 2 hours 45 minutes. I'd say it's better because in some ballparks it's forcing umpires to call the strikezone the correct way. Human error never registered with me when it comes to baseball. In football a holding penalty isn't always certain. In baseball a foul is a foul, and the umpires are supposed to call a specific strikezone. They aren't supposed to have their own. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DrTom Report post Posted June 3, 2003 I'd say it's better because in some ballparks it's forcing umpires to call the strikezone the correct way. But isn't that strike zone being programmed the wrong way? How is that going to help? Human error is still not eliminated from the equation. The system uses cameras, which were designed and built by humans, then placed around the stadium by humans, then operated by humans. Keep in mind that no camera gives a perfect shot of home plate because of the pitcher. Then, the camera system has to interface with a computer, designed and built by humans, with information programmed into it by humans, and with the goal of being interpreted by humans. No system will be perfect. Let the umpires call the game like they always have and keep the digitized strong zone out of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Some Guy Report post Posted June 3, 2003 The games are shorter because the Umps havea stop watch and they are making the teams be ready to play after 1 minute 20 seconds between innings. ESPN Sunday games and Fox Saturday games arre the exception. Enforcing the strike zone be taking away many strike calls would make the game longer. More balls=more pitches and walks, more pitches and walks=longer games. I think they should expand the zone and make guys swing a little more. That would speed up the game. Maybe stopping the pouintless throws to first, constant conferances on the mound, pitchers taking 6 laps around the mound between pitches, batters walking around between pitches, batters aduxting everything on their person after taking a pitch, etc... would also speed things up a little. I don't care about Que-tech. I don't think it's going to change anythign except in teh parks it's in and it's going to cause problems with Maddux, Schilling, Wells, Mussina, and other control pitchers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest two_tuff_toddy Report post Posted June 3, 2003 I think they should ebforce a rule where batters are not allowed to step out of the box once they have stepped in and pitchers only have so many seconds to throw each pitch. I think this would help speed up the game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted June 3, 2003 I'd say it's better because in some ballparks it's forcing umpires to call the strikezone the correct way. But isn't that strike zone being programmed the wrong way? How is that going to help? Human error is still not eliminated from the equation. The system uses cameras, which were designed and built by humans, then placed around the stadium by humans, then operated by humans. Keep in mind that no camera gives a perfect shot of home plate because of the pitcher. Then, the camera system has to interface with a computer, designed and built by humans, with information programmed into it by humans, and with the goal of being interpreted by humans. No system will be perfect. Let the umpires call the game like they always have and keep the digitized strong zone out of it. I basically look at it has a last resort type of thing. I wish a machine wasn't necessary, but I'm glad MLB is trying to enforce the strikezone. Umpires have changed the way they call games. I've heard many writers and players say 35 years ago that letter high pitch was a strike. I think even if all inperfections this quetech system has, and who knows how it will last. It is an attempt to improve pitching and speed up the game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DrTom Report post Posted June 4, 2003 Umpires have changed the way they call games. I've heard many writers and players say 35 years ago that letter high pitch was a strike. Here's your answer to that one, Vern: Regarding the high strike, though: I don't see it coming back. It died when umpires went from the outside "bubble" chest protector (which forced them to stand fairly upright) to the interior protector, which allows them to get on one knee behind the catcher. When a letter-high pitch comes in to a batter, it's at the umpire's head. Instinctively, a pitch at head level will not be called a strike. Unless MLB can reverse that mental polartity in its umpires, don't look for the high strike to make a glorious return. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted June 4, 2003 Bring back the bubble chest protector than Seriously. The high strike was just an example of a pitch they used to call. I had forgotten about your original post on the subject. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
