New Dan Wilson Column

[Guest Phoenix Fury Legdrop]

Wildside announcer Dan "The Dragon" Wilson just posted one hell of a column at the NWA Wildside Tribute Page about the Philly Mutants who populate shows in Philly weekly. Also, it's not like you need to be a Wildside fan to enjoy this column; Dan's shooting from the hip about complaints that I know others have about the ROH crowd. You can read it here.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Wah wah wah wah.

 

Wilson sounds like Boy Lance or Jericho.

 

Carny is as carny does.

 

Tim

[Guest Dangerous Back Drop]

Nah, this is worse than Prance Storm or Crybaby Chris. Dan's actually got the balls to blame the fans for head-drop-a-thons and out-of-control spots that lead to injuries. The fact of the matter is that the only people who can make wrestlers go out there and near-cripple themselves are the wrestlers. Sure, promoters may pressure them, but they have to do it.

 

Then again, expecting great matches left and right out of workers is a bit much...but not because of their physical state. After all, who the Hell becomes a wrestler when they're intelligent enough to have other avenues open to them? I could understand it back in the 50's & 60's when it was big money and the style was less abusive, but who the Hell does the indy circuit these days if they can cut it at a real job? And the same probably goes for those working around the business - I swear this column read like he hadn't graduated high school, and anyone trying to blow sunshine up our asses about Iceberg (I've seen him live, he's godawful) must not have it all together upstairs...or he has ulterior motives, if it's not some combination of the two.

 

So you're right about the 'carny' bit; keeping the fans dumb and uninformed is the easiest way to bilk them of their money. He pretty much says all he has to about his own stance when he says, "The ones who are smart enough to know the score, but not so smart that they let it get in the way of enjoying wrestling (sic)." And yeah, there's that quote from the Bible about 'he who increases knowledge, increases sorrow,' but being able to objectively think about wrestling has helped me enjoy it *more* -- when the matches/workers have deserved it. A great example - a worker who did squat in the way of dangerous spots and still worked circles around their "Amazing" ROH clowns - would be the Destroyer. Who knows if I'd appreciate his matches if I never examined wrestling as something more than fat guys pummeling each other. Being smart never hurts; being dumb - and being carny - rarely helps, Don.

[Guest ShooterJay]

Wah wah wah wah.

 

Wilson sounds like Boy Lance or Jericho.

 

Carny is as carny does.

 

Tim

Oh fuck you Tim.

 

Dan Wilson is absolutely right with this column. I've seen this firsthand in Philly. Low Ki vs. Xavier 9/21. Sure the match is bad, but poor Xavier is taking a shitkicking in 100+ degree heat, and the crowd is openly and loudly mocking the bad match, how horrible does that make him feel?

 

This is where the "you've never stepped in a ring" argument does have merit. People really have no idea the chronic, mind-numbing pain that these guys go through trying to pay rent on their apartments in their chosen careers, and guys who can't dream of doing this stuff are making fun of them. for in their eyes, not doing it well enough? Screw them. That's why I prefer Boston crowds for ROH- they're marks, they like to have fun, they don't go to get themselves over. They don't pull the crap the Philly fans do.

 

On the same token, ROH did book Iceberg wrong. A big fat guy squashing a jobber does not get the big fat guy over. Him no-selling about a dozen Carnage Crew hubcap shots, on the other hand, would have. If you haven't seen Iceberg in Wildside, Wilson isn't blowing smoke up your ass, the guy is a freakin' comic book supervillain monster heel who can go and carry a match. If you haven't seen him, you have no right to comment.

 

As someone who's just beginning to see how good the Wildside guys are, I hope ROH does give Iceberg another chance, or it doesn't hurt his CZW bookings.

[Guest ShooterJay]

who the Hell does the indy circuit these days if they can cut it at a real job? And the same probably goes for those working around the business - I swear this column read like he hadn't graduated high school, and anyone trying to blow sunshine up our asses about Iceberg (I've seen him live, he's godawful) must not have it all together upstairs...or he has ulterior motives, if it's not some combination of the two.

Hm, maybe because they LOVE WRESTLING. Yeah, that's kind of an odd notion isn't it?

 

In case you forgot, most WWE wrestlers are college graduates. Jay Briscoe has a college scholarship to Georgetown waiting for him. GQ goes to Rutgers. Johnny Kashmere is a college graduate.

 

But keep up with the ad hominem fallacies though, they're highly entertaining.

[Guest Phoenix Fury Legdrop]

Wah wah wah wah.

 

Wilson sounds like Boy Lance or Jericho.

 

Carny is as carny does.

 

Carny? I've heard people describe Dan Wilson in many different ways, but carny? O....k. How does he sound like Storm or Jericho? He actually has a legitimate complaint here. Those ADD-afflicted morons in Philly (especially that asshole Hat Guy, who's the epitome of all I HATE about Philadelphia wrestling) get their jollies off by chanting lewd things for no damn reason during really good matches....and then chant crap like "Don't Come Back" at guys who don't go out there and do a 20 minute "strong style" (don't even get me started on the over useage of that phrase on the indies) match with a clean tapout finish.

 

And then there's the utterly stupid argument that it's entirely these guys' faults that they do the zillion headdrops a match. Sure, part of it is these guys' faults for wanting to re-create that All Japan style here in the States (and look what's happen to those AJPW guys). But the fans have absolutely no damn right to tell some guy who drove from Georgia all the way to Philly just to work a 3-minute squash to "Don't Come Back", which might just be the most despicable chant in a long, long while, because he doesn't try to re-do what the previous "technical match" did, or do the same thing as every match coming after it. ROH fans have their style, and they can keep their damn style, for all I care. At least in 5 years, as they chant "Don't Come Back" to a guy who's worked the ROH style for so long that he can't go at his former half-speed because the wear-and-tear of being these degenerates' "Superman", that there'll still be respectful fans in other places who, while they enjoy a fast-paced, action-packed match, don't shit on the wrestlers if they either can't or decide to intelligently prolong their storyline by not doing so.

[Guest ShooterJay]

Just to clarify, not all ROH fans are like the Philly ones. As I said before, ROH Boston crowds rock, and the upcoming Dayton, Jersey and Fairfield ones should all be great.

 

Big props to PFL for making the argument way better than I did- the kid's a prodigy, I tells ya.

[Guest The Last Free Voice]

eh, my gimmick is that of crazy bump machine. So head drops are requierd for me. I'm crazy over tho.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Fans aren't allowed to boo and tell a wrestler to come back?

 

Wow, didn't know this was communist Russia in 1965.

 

Wilson can cry all he wants.

 

Philly has some bad fans, like EVERY PROMOTION does. Well, except Wildside apparently. But those fans go "Fuck you Tim" to start off posts. So go figure.

 

Go Dan go.

 

Tim

[Guest ShooterJay]

But those fans go "Fuck you Tim" to start off posts. So go figure.

 

Go Dan go.

 

Tim

Did you even read past that line?

 

You haven't put up a SINGLE constructive criticism of this column anywhere in this thread. Nothing but fallacious statements, with ZERO analysis.

 

You know what, I've given up trying to reason and have a decent give and take conversation with you and your holier-than-thou ivory tower buddies who wander in here. So from here on out, I'm just ignoring you and people of your ilk. Anyone draws a comparison between pro wrestling, ENTERTAINMENT, and 1965 Communist Russia isn't worth my time.

[Guest the pinjockey]

"If you’re paying to see these shows based on the effort these guys give you then you should be paying for their hospital bills and their retirement as well. The pressure you put on these athletes forces them to go above and beyond the call of duty of even having a great match because they know that even a great match won’t please you."

 

Gee, I am sorry I forced these people into the wrestling business. If I would have known that fans expect balls out effort for their money and there is potential for physical pain; I would not have walked up to every wrestler in the world and put a gun to their head and said "you will be a wrestler."

 

Is Philly the harshest crowd in the US (wrestling and everything else)? Yes. Do they go overboard sometimes? Yes. But a wrestler should know how to deal with a bad crowd and move on from it.

[Guest ShooterJay]

Edit

Edited June 7, 2003 by ShooterJay

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Not even a wrestler crying about it (i.e. Lance or Jericho)...it's friggin Dan "The Dragon" Wilson.

 

If he really knew what the ROH product was all about, he would know that 4/12/03 Dragon v London is the best ROH match out there and that has nothing like Kobashi/Misawa or flying matches.

 

Tim

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

I think people in general complain too much about wrestling and do claim to know everything when they don't know jack. But this is the thing that all wrestlers, promoters, and business insiders don't think about. THE FANS PAY TO SEE WRESTLING. If you are paying or supporting a product, you should be able to say whatever you damn well please. This is the beauty of the sport. It doesn't matter if your a mark or if you constantly rag on a product because you are "in the know", if you support the product with your hard earned money then you should be able to voice your own opinion.....

[Guest Vyce]

Yes, every promotion has bad fans.

 

The issue is whether Philly has them in abundance. The answer is: hell yes. The nickname "mutant" applies quite well.

[Guest Nevermortal]

Gah. Iceberg may be able to bump like a mofo and carry and match or whatever, but its not what the fans want.

 

There was a poll on the OFFICIAL ROH website asking 'Do You Want More Superheavyweights in RoH'. The decision was a decidedly big "NO!" I mean, if Iceberg isn't a superheavyweight, then who is? Jabba the Hutt?

 

I mean, they ask what the fans want, and when the fans respond, they give them the opposite, then wondered why Iceberg got booed.