Guest Report post Posted March 27, 2002 The following news and notes comes from the Dave Meltzer Wrestling Observer Newsletter. ----------------------------------------------------------------- The reason why the handicap match of Triple H vs. Stephanie/Chris Jericho was changed to a 3 way match was to break up Stephanie and Jericho's "business relationship". This idea for a 3 way was the only plausible idea that the writing team could come up with to separate Stephanie from Jericho. Many within the WWF believe that Chris Jericho was a complete failure as the Undisputed champion, blaming it on his style of wrestling and citing that he couldn't draw heat on his own. The reason believed for pairing Stephanie McMahon with Jericho was that Jericho couldn't draw the heat needed for Wrestlemania. Some say that the addition of Stephanie "saved" the World Title match at Wrestlemania. (!!!) There's an apparent feeling that nobody wants to say anything negative about Stephanie whatsoever in case it ever comes back to them since she's a major creative force in the WWF. Word has been getting around about how many wrestlers Triple H badmouths at WWF production meetings, which I guess he attends when deciding what goes on the television shows. Any wrestlers who say anything negative about Triple H, whatsoever, will apparently be buried by Triple H at the meetings. [ Credit: Dave Meltzer's Wrestling Observer Newsletter ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest buffybeast Report post Posted March 27, 2002 Well I have heard that HHH does sit in on production meetings. but this is the first I have heard on him badmouthing wrestlers who he doesn't like or say something negative about him. I would be leary of saying anything negative towards Stephanie simply because her last name is Mcmahon. That is sad if the WWF felt that Jericho's reign was a bust. And I certainly do not think that Steph "saved" their feud or WM match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mastermind Report post Posted March 27, 2002 Reading the first post I have come to this conclusion. IF this is true, Austin has reason to think he can get screwed. I mean seriously. Jericho is getting blamed for the lack of heat he had from January 7-WrestleMania? I'm in agreement with those who say Jericho was over as a heel, but I think he was not over as a true heel champ (Ric Flair or HBK around Montreal screwjob*notice I didn't say heel Triple H because I think those two had more genuine heel emotion in fans) should have been for beating Rock and Austin on the same night to win the first undisputed title(which I always stated should have been Austin). Believe it or not guys it's the image that Jericho has of being smaller than the top guys like Austin and Rock and Triple H. A lot of casual fans think the guy is really intercontinental champion material and nothing more. This still doesn't excuse the booking of Jericho as champion. The night after he won the title on RAW the wwf did do a booking botch as someone said by having Austin possibly winning, but went back in the cage to give Jericho punishment. What does that say about Jericho. He won because Austin made a mistake. Austin was seen as the real champion. Jericho's champion credibility is getting chinks in the armour right away. He was getting heat with RVD I'll admit. You see with the gimmick that Jericho was getting a swelled head the wwf should have done a power play where Jericho puts down RVD as a challenger and wants to face Rock. Something of a heel move that Triple H got as heel champion who screwed people around because he was the champ. Jericho didn't have that. I actually think Jericho's promo with Rock prior to the Rumble was solid and going somewhere. Jericho was doing good, not great at this point. However, something happened when the first SmackDown aired after Royal Rumble. Jericho was pushed down for the nWo angle and probably rightfully so since it has casual fan appeal. The wwf was on the right track when Triple H came on RAW and asked Jericho if he could make it to WrestleMania. Jericho's motivation should have been a fighting champion to prove he should be main eventing and defending the title. What happens though? He has matches with midcarders like Edge and Rikishi with some matches being non-title. That is where Jericho became a joke and his heat died. Even the beer thrashing of Austin came off good, but Jericho was punked on SmackDown when he couldn't peep a word to Austin in the locker room. Jericho was finished right there as not being the real champion to the fans. I admit he was NOT over at this time for being a top heel with the belt. Then we got the nWo coming in to poison and destroy the wwf and they don't attack the wwf champion. The CHAMPION of the wwf should be a person on the nWo's target list. Hogan who could have used the storyline of being the real champion and owner of the big gold belt. I know that it would be heel vs. heel, but the wwf could have inserted Triple H as the face who protected the wwf championship because he was afraid of the championship's future. He wouldn't actually be saving Jericho, but his title shot and the title for WrestleMania. Now this ties into the nWo angle and what could have made it more hot. The wwf wrestlers bonding together to save the company from the poison where Rock and Austin could have come to the aid of the championship as well. However Rock and Austin are shown as the two top guys in the business even without the belt which has more meaning to the wwf than the world champion. The two guys Jericho beat for the belt. His heel turn and wins over Rock and Austin were null and void at this point. Instead Triple H was also a big joke with the stupid wedding crap. I say Trips isn't over now, but I think stupid soap opera crap like this is a reason. Triple H AND Jericho were made to look stupid from January 7-WrestleMania. That's why Triple H isn't as over as he should be. Both Jericho and Triple H weren't built up properly. Stephanie just sucked what little heat Jericho had. The reason why Jericho and Triple H aren't as over as they should be is that STEPHANIE was booked to be the star. I really can't believe the wwf people can't see that. It's the WRITER'S fault for how things went. Not the wrestlers in this instance. I find it really funny that the wwf could come up with stronger storylines in 1997 when they had a much weaker roster and now have the strongest roster in their history and are not as dramatic with the storylines. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted March 27, 2002 It may have backfired & killed some of Triple H's "heat" by having Steph in the storyline but I truely believe Triple H & Steph had every attention in the world to destroy Jericho and make him look weak. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye Report post Posted March 27, 2002 And jesuit pig actually needed to ask me why my sig says what it says... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Just call me Dan Report post Posted March 27, 2002 I can't believe the WWF pulled the plug on Jericho and gave it to HHH. Remember the Austin heel turn? He goes from being the unbeatable rattlesnake to becoming Rock's bitch the next night on Raw in the cage match. Rock ABSOLUTELY SLAUGHTERED Austin, and HHH came in and aligned with him. Austin was made out to be the cowardly heel and his gimmick was he had McMahon and the belt. That sucked. He was hardly over, and he looked weak. Stone Cold Steve Austin looked really weak. They decided to turn to version 2.0, the psycho, and it went over a lot better. He eventually started to become a lot more bad ass and hard to beat before the Survivor Series turn to face. Your top guy, face or heel can't be booked as a pussy, period. Jericho was booked like that and became that in the eyes of the fans and now he is screwed b/c he gets no retribution. Vince and the writing team may have buried any WCW talent, but they sure have high praise for their waste of talent and really bad stories. Idiots. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted March 27, 2002 Great post mastermind...as usual. I remember saying right after the Rumble that Jericho would get blamed when his title reign bombed... and I also pointed out that ALL of the programming was revolving around HHH, not the champion. That's bullshit. If the ratings were bad and HHH was the center of attention...you don't blame the champion. That's retarded. And this is how Jericho was made a bitch. He was the undisputed champion, unified the titles, beat Austin and Rock...and was very over. (remember how hot his canceled program with RVD was?) Then HHH returned and became the focal point of TV. And ratings were bad...and somehow Jericho got blamed. On top of that...With HHH more the focus than the champion...When Jericho got beat by HHH...well...what does that say about Jericho? He was never once made to look in the same league as HHH. So Mania ends with a dull, predictable, unsatisfying ending. But HHH gets the gold...so I guess that's all that matters. Fuck him. And whoever booked it too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted March 27, 2002 Remember the Austin heel turn? He goes from being the unbeatable rattlesnake to becoming Rock's bitch the next night on Raw in the cage match. Rock ABSOLUTELY SLAUGHTERED Austin, and HHH came in and aligned with him. Austin was made out to be the cowardly heel and his gimmick was he had McMahon and the belt. The part thar made me sick about this the most was HHH probaly getting in Vince's ear and telling him he should be alligned with Austin. That jackass was just afraid Austin would take his #1 heel spot so he had to be assoicated with him. fuck HHH. That sucked. He was hardly over, and he looked weak. Stone Cold Steve Austin looked really weak. They decided to turn to version 2.0, the psycho, and it went over a lot better. He eventually started to become a lot more bad ass and hard to beat before the Survivor Series turn to face. He was still kind of a pussy doing the psycho gimmick. I think he was always doing the psycho gimmick kind of, only HHH made Austin look like his bitch in the Power Trip so he couldnt shine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mastermind Report post Posted March 27, 2002 Actually, I think there was a good reason(not storyline wise) to put Triple H and Austin together. Remember Austin turning was a bit of a hard sell. Putting him with Triple H would for sure make fans hate the guy for teaming up with the man who tried to kill him. However, that was no reason to make Austin Triple H and Vince's bitch. They actually think booking like that makes people hate the wrestler. All it does is make people turn the channel or just wait to see another wrestler with the traits of said wrestler as a face. I do find it strange that only Triple H got that superstar heel heat where he didn't look like a pussy. It's kind of funny and I'm sure the wrestlers backstage watch this, but don't say nothing to the writers. Austin would have played a way better version of the 2000 Triple H. It would have also lead to Austin beating Trips at SummerSlam getting his job back(hypothetically speaking). In hindsight it was a mistake putting the two together. I still say there really wasn't a good reason to turn Austin face so quickly after Survivor Series. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The BiG C Report post Posted March 27, 2002 HHH just doesen't work as a face. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mastermind Report post Posted March 27, 2002 Yeah, I know Trips isn't the greatest face as I use to tell people that at the old forum when some guys wanted Trips returning as a face. As I thought he would get sympathy face heat and then he would be stuck in tweener land as he is now and not that fans are split on cheering him. I mean either cheer him out of neccessity since he's booked as a face or just sit on their hands. I bet if he turns heel he would quickly get boos and wouldn't be in this limbo. However, I think last year the fans would have rallied behind Triple H against the sell-out Austin. Just watch the night after WrestleMania on RAW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest muzanisa Report post Posted March 27, 2002 I'm glad we got the paranoid pussy Austin. The stuff with him, Vince and Angle was awesome. Wind beneath my Ring with the bouncing head and the milk truck was good as well. You know for all the failures of the Invasion storyline and there were many; it did have some great moments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest notJames Report post Posted March 27, 2002 I just wish some of those moments involved, you know, wrestling... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kinetic Report post Posted March 27, 2002 I remember saying right after the Rumble that Jericho would get blamed when his title reign bombed... and I also pointed out that ALL of the programming was revolving around HHH, not the champion. That's bullshit. If the ratings were bad and HHH was the center of attention...you don't blame the champion. That's retarded. And this is how Jericho was made a bitch. He was the undisputed champion, unified the titles, beat Austin and Rock...and was very over. (remember how hot his canceled program with RVD was?) Then HHH returned and became the focal point of TV. And ratings were bad...and somehow Jericho got blamed. On top of that...With HHH more the focus than the champion...When Jericho got beat by HHH...well...what does that say about Jericho? He was never once made to look in the same league as HHH. So Mania ends with a dull, predictable, unsatisfying ending. But HHH gets the gold...so I guess that's all that matters. Fuck him. And whoever booked it too. Yeah. And now Triple H is the champion, while the ratings are simultaneously climbing. It doesn't have anything to do with Triple H, as far as I'm concerned, but I'm sure he'll still take credit for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest muzanisa Report post Posted March 27, 2002 I just wish some of those moments involved, you know, wrestling... Yeah. You know that might have been where they went wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kahran Ramsus Report post Posted March 27, 2002 I just wish some of those moments involved, you know, wrestling... Austin did his fair share of great wrestling during this period as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kinetic Report post Posted March 28, 2002 The wrestling content during the Invasion angle was actually significantly better than the wrestling content since then. Austin had probably the best in-ring run of his career, Angle and RVD had a few great matches, Jericho and RVD, Jericho and The Rock...etc. What has there been since then? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest notJames Report post Posted March 28, 2002 I just wish some of those moments involved, you know, wrestling... Austin did his fair share of great wrestling during this period as well. Yeah, I know that and you know that, but which will be remembered more by the fans? The superlative wrestling or BY GAWD, MILKAMANIA IS RUNNING WILD!!!? (sigh) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted March 28, 2002 Before and during the first half of the Invasion the average Match would last at least 5 minutes. Now, we get these minute in a half matches. The Spilt better give us longer matches....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted March 28, 2002 "Yeah. And now Triple H is the champion, while the ratings are simultaneously climbing. It doesn't have anything to do with Triple H, as far as I'm concerned, but I'm sure he'll still take credit for it." Agreed. Look how HHH saved the WWF... ...even though people are tuning in to see Hogan and what all this draft stuff is about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted March 28, 2002 Hell...what do you think was the bigger ratings draw on Monday? Steph possible leaving the WWF......or HHH defending the title? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kahran Ramsus Report post Posted March 28, 2002 Yeah, I know that and you know that, but which will be remembered more by the fans? The superlative wrestling or BY GAWD, MILKAMANIA IS RUNNING WILD!!!? Consider it for the better good. If it gets Angle & Austin in the main event, so be it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Laizen Report post Posted March 28, 2002 No good wrestling out of the Invasion eh? I beg to differ. At least it gave us the incredible ***** match between Austin and Angle at SummerSlam. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted March 28, 2002 Invasion matches that were varrying degrees of good: ppv only: Invasion: RVD vs. Jeff Hardy Kidman vs. XPAc (at least Invasion gave us cruiser matches) Awesome & Storm vs. Edge & Christian Summerslam: Storm vs. Edge Tajiri vs. XPac RVD vs. Jeff Hardy Austin vs. Angle Booker vs. Rock Unforgiven: RVD vs. Jericho Edge vs. Christian Austin vs. Angle No Mercy: Hardys vs. Storm & Hurricane Christian vs. Edge Rock vs. Jericho Austin vs. Angle vs. RVD (so sue me...I like this match) Survivor Series: Christian vs. Snow Edge vs. Test Dudleys vs. Hardys Elimination match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
