Who is the most overrated wrestler of all time?

[Guest Monday Night Jericho]

I remember Austin dragging Taker to a decent match at SS 1998. Not great, but probably Taker's best singles match.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Quote from Bionic Redneck "Kayfabe breaking" Lou Thez press?

 

I mainly meant the punches he preforms after the press. They are very poor.

 

The Undertapper match I'm talking about is Backlash? 2002. This was negative stars.

 

See my formula goes like this-People's praise of Austin> Austin's actual ability. That's why he's overrated.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Maybe. But the thread is called "Most overrated". My point being that there are surely people who are much more overrated.

 

eg:

 

People's praise of AJ Styles> AJ's actual ability

[Guest two_tuff_toddy]

"a

[Guest two_tuff_toddy]

sorry about the post I fucked up.

[Guest Monday Night Jericho]

See my formula goes like this-People's praise of Austin> Austin's actual ability. That's why he's overrated.

 

I'm pretty new to this forum so I'm not too sure how he's rated here. But on other forums people usually laugh at the statement that he is better than people such as Michaels and Angle despite killing them all round.

[Guest godthedog]

How is Austin underrated? I still don't understand the big deal about Austin's matches, especially after his neck was screwed up. It is just punch, punch, kick, kick, stunner. His selling is fine, and his psycology is fine. But his moveset isn't anything to write home about. I'm sorry, but all those matches with Rock were not ****. I don't hate his matches, but they aren't that great.

about his selling: if by "fine" you mean "great," then yes, his selling is fine.

 

about his psychology: if by "fine" you mean "one of the best in north america," then yes, his psychology is fine.

 

if by "his matches" you mean "summerslam 2001, raw is quad, his 2 tv matches with chris benoit, the hollywood blondes matches with the horsemen or ricky steamboat, and ALL his matches with bret hart," and if by "aren't that great" you mean "are incredible," then yes, his matches aren't that great.

 

austin is god. you are nothing.

The quality of a match is always debatable, so just because you think his matches are incredible, doesn't mean that I will. I liked his matches pre-surgery (so the Bret ones you mentioned and the horsemen/steamboat ones), but I couldn't really get into many of his matches after it. Oh, and your last comment was real mature.

okay, here i gotta pull the puro card and say that "you may like a match that i don't, it's all subjective and that's life" isn't a very good answer, and you need to back up the claims: why do you think his more famous post-surgery matches weren't good? why do you say you just "like" his pre-surgery matches and apparently still didn't think they were great?

 

for his pre-surgery career alone, austin deserves to be lauded as one of north america's all-time greatest.

 

post-surgery: you couldn't even get into summerslam 2001? that was the best job of in-ring storytelling the wwf had done in probably 4 years. not only did austin play his character perfectly, but he commanded the flow of the match like a pro: giving him a stunner, acting shocked when angle kicked out, then firing off another stunner just to say "eat shit and die"...not letting angle make the comeback too soon, making the crowd more afraid he would lose for taking so much punishment & making them love him more for being able to take it, THEN letting him come back out of nowhere with the anklelock...no real restholds either. when i saw him pull out the million dollar dream, i thought "okay, this'll be the rest spot" but he kept it very short: just long enough to make his point about how desperate he was to win, and then they moved on.

 

the "austin is god you are nothing" comment wasn't meant to be taken seriously at all, and i certainly hope you didn't take it as such.

 

I remember Austin dragging Taker to a decent match at SS 1998. Not great, but probably Taker's best singles match.

if you don't count hell in a cell, his best singles match was with bret hart at the 97 uk pay-per-view.

 

I'm pretty new to this forum so I'm not too sure how he's rated here. But on other forums people usually laugh at the statement that he is better than people such as Michaels and Angle despite killing them all round.

the hierarchy around here with major wwf players is pretty much: bret > austin > angle/michaels > everybody else

(note: chris benoit and eddie guerrero omitted)

 

by the way, bret is terribly overrated. his mic work is boring, and his matches are all repetitive. work the leg, act hurt, 5 moves of doom...*yawn*

Edited June 15, 2003 by godthedog

[Guest Monday Night Jericho]

I've only seen the Bret/Taker match in 97 once and that was when it happened so I can't remember much about it, only that it was pretty good. Meh I thought the HIAC was very overrated myself and they seemed to be too reliant on big bumps, I think I like the SS 98 match a bit more.

 

I agree that Bret is overrated although I would still consider him a great worker and a good carrier, but not close to being the best technical wrestler ever or anything like that. Nor is he the best to come out of Canada (Benoit is).

[TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0]

Bret could work a very smart match. And get around opponents weaknesses(ie. carry well) a lot like Flair could. But Bret's main problem is when he didn't try his matches became WAY to predictable and he began to rely on nothing but the 5 moves of doom.

 

On the mic Bret wasn't the worst(better than Benoit by a mile) but nowhere near Flair, Foley, Austin, Rock, Hogan, even Angle or AA.

[Guest wildpegasus]

I don't think Bret's overrated. He was able to pull me into his matches as much as anyone. Bret's selling was awesome and his execution of moves was well excellent. None of his moves looked bad. His headlock takeovers, superplexes, punches, uppercuts, small packages, sharpshooters and clotheslines were all done very nicely. Bret made wrestling look more real than almost anyone. Little things like cursing after losing in the Survivor Series against the Million Dollar Man or Mr. Perfect bending Brets' fingers to break the sharpshooter after Razor had stomped on them in a previous match.

 

Bret was also good at using his brain in several memorable moments. The spot where Bret put Davey in the sharpshooter from his back, still having the best table spot ever against Diesel or sucking Diesil in for the 3 count by playing possum in the same bout. He could tell a story in the ring as well as anyone. Just look at Bret vs 123 Kid, the ending of Bret vs Austin Survivor Series, Bret vs Austin Wrestlemania, or Bret vs Benoit.

 

As for Bret's mike work being boring I completely disagree. His phrase"Best there is, best there ever was and the best there ever will be" is the best "catchphrase" ever. Not only does it sound cool it completely sums up Bret. That's what he cared about most of all. Being the best. It sent the viewer's attention to what's going to happen in the ring and made them care about the match. His interviews were engrossing and spoken with passion. I can't see how anyone wouldn't like them.

[Guest Memoirs of an Invisible Chevy]

I'd take Bret Hart over Benoit. He's more epic.

[Guest Monday Night Jericho]

Benoit has mastered many more styles than Bret did. Bret was great in the WWF but only decent i Japan. Benoit was/is damn good in the WWF/E but was also shit hot in Japan.

[Guest Dangerous A]

MNJ has got the handle on it.

 

Bret was arguably the best at the WWF style of wrestling, but Benoit has mastered or excelled at every style he has wrestled in. I am not sure if Bret could excel in a style like Lucha, but Benoit has.

[Guest godthedog]

man...i was totally kidding about bret being overrated.

[Guest Monday Night Jericho]

On other forums that I've been on he's regarded as the best technical wrestler ever, or the best Canadian wrestler ever and quite a few call him the best wrestler ever when even though he's great, he isn't quite that great. I suppose that may make him overrated, but in his defence he was by far better than Shawn Michaels although some don't agree.

[TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0]

Personally I prefer Bret to benoit simply because he makes his matches seem more, as someone else put it, epic. He's got more inring charisma I guess and when it comes to the WWF I consider Bret one of the best ever.

 

That doens't extend to Japan although some of his 80's stuff with Misawa is pretty f'n good.

[Guest Memoirs of an Invisible Chevy]

Personally I prefer Bret to benoit simply because he makes his matches seem more, as someone else put it, epic. He's got more inring charisma I guess and when it comes to the WWF I consider Bret one of the best ever.

 

That doens't extend to Japan although some of his 80's stuff with Misawa is pretty f'n good.

Its because the Hitman's WWF matches were epic. They meant something. Benoit means shit in the company. I just enjoyed the hype, storylines, and the anticipation of his big matchups.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Shawn Michaels, by far. He was good, but legend my ass.

[Guest godthedog]

Personally I prefer Bret to benoit simply because he makes his matches seem more, as someone else put it, epic. He's got more inring charisma I guess and when it comes to the WWF I consider Bret one of the best ever.

 

That doens't extend to Japan although some of his 80's stuff with Misawa is pretty f'n good.

Its because the Hitman's WWF matches were epic. They meant something. Benoit means shit in the company. I just enjoyed the hype, storylines, and the anticipation of his big matchups.

not just that...if you just watch the matches, ignoring the build-up, bret's matches on the whole FEEL more epic because they're spaced out a little more. his style of building a match up is different, he loves pausing just a little more after the dramatic near-falls to make it more exhausting and dramatic. that, & other little touches in the timing, make the matches feel bigger.

 

but i don't think it's got as much to do with bret being better as having more time with his matches. i mean, bret was given 30 minutes for his summerslam match with davey, & in most of his other big matches he got at least 18-20 minutes. benoit almost never gets that kind of time, and normally has to do more with less. i mean, the unforgiven match was, what, 14 minutes? and even for that little time, it was still exhausting to watch. the few times he gets a good amount of time (RR 03, no mercy 02), they feel about as big as a good bret match.

[Guest HellSpawn]

I agree that Bret matches are in some way repetitive but he worked great matches with..

 

Undertaker, both Summerslam and One night only from 97 and Diesel... and this is from a non clique member

 

Very good matches with Roddy Piper and Curt Hennig (RIP).

 

I agree too about more time on his matches, but hey.. remember Hart was a World Title champion/contender, and Benoit contender time was last year vs Eddie (17 min) and vs Angle and way back at 2000, with a near 20 min brawls vs Rock and the other 4 way match too.

 

And *maybe* Bret made thos matches look EPIC. I mean, Everyone knew that Bret working the leg to get the Sharpshooter was the peak of the match, see SummerSlam 92 and hear the crowd when he got Davey while both were laying on their backs.

 

Benoit KILLED his finishers.

 

The Swandive headbutt is just another move.

The Rolling germans are now just a formula in his match.

For example, I recently saw the Unforgiven match vs Angle, on my mind, I clearly saw the segments of the match...

1st, mat/Technical Wrestling, both working over their own Finisher holds.

2nd, lets go to the Suplex Zone

3rd, working to the finish.

 

He only use the Crossface as a real finisher now.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

*Ahem* Benoit didn't kill his finishers. A certain company he wrestles for did.

[Guest godthedog]

i don't think the company he wrestles for told him to make sure he applies the crossface at least 3 times before his opponent taps out to it, but that's neither here nor there.

 

benoit never treated the swandive headbutt like a finisher once he was in the wwf, it's just a big move to pop the crowd like the split-legged moonsault.

 

and i've never seen a benoit match where the rolling germans are treated like a finisher.

[TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0]

Bret & Benoit's runs in the WWF are incomparable, to say the least.

 

Look at the quality of oppostion Benoit's been fighting, mostly: Angle, Jericho, Austin, HHH when he was good, Eddy, Rey Rey, Edge.

 

Compare that to: Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Jerry Lawler, Doink, Yokozuna, Taker and some of the other stiffs Bret had to carry to decent matches.

 

What I'd wanna see is Bret, in his prime, wrestle the likes of Angle, Jericho etc. on a daily basis see how his matches are then.