Guest Ghettoman Report post Posted June 17, 2003 Everytime I watch this guy play I'm in awe, I mean is there any better all around player in the league today? A-rod can hit and play D, but he's nowhere near as fast or as much of a presence on base as Ichiro. And when it comes to being a smarter hitter you have to give that to Ichiro. On D I'd give the edge to Ichiro for speed although his position is less important. I think people don't want to make light of his ability for three reasons, 1, he's not american, at all really, and can anyone remember a time where the MLB has put effort into making a foreign star there biggest? 2, which ties into one, he's not flashy, he's not funny, he's not the most charismatic guy in the world, especially through a translator. And last but most importantly, he's not a homerun hitter. In a time where so much emphasis is put on the home run I think he's not given the credit of being the great hitter that he is. Am I just smoking some hardcore PCP here, or is this guy the best player in the MLB and no one wants to say it for a number of reasons? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted June 17, 2003 Well, A-Rod is a better player, IMO, because his power is a more important skill, and he has it all over Ichiro in that department. Ichiro, without a doubt, is the most EXCITING player in baseball. He may not be the best, but a league of Ichiros would be more fun then any other player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MaxPower27 Report post Posted June 17, 2003 I haven't seen anyone bad mouth him. I don't understand why you have to be so confrontational and conspiracy theorist about everything. He's a great player. Part of the reason that he doesn't get the pub that he should is because he plays on the West Coast. It's the same for hockey. I watched him kick ass last night against Atlanta, but I see him limited time only. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted June 17, 2003 They gave him the MVP his fist year in the league. Who isn't giving him respect? ...He's my second favorite player after Vlad Guerrero by the by. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest the pinjockey Report post Posted June 17, 2003 Are we taking position played out of the equation? Because if not I would put Soriano ahead as well. A potential 50-50 player at 2B is an unmatchable asset. I would put ARod, Soriano, Vlad, and Pujols ahead of him. The things that Pujols has done being this young is incredible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ghettoman Report post Posted June 17, 2003 It's not so much conspiracy based, I just think overall because he's not marketable they underplay his ability grossly. And I think smart hitting is much more important than power hitting, unless you can take every pitch you see 400 I'd rather take the guy who can take every pitch far enough to get on base. I think he's hands down the best player in the league, A-rod just doesn't have the ability to manufacture runs like he does, and when it comes to who you'd rather have a team of 9 of, I'd pick Ichiro(affordable no doubt). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MaxPower27 Report post Posted June 17, 2003 I'd pick Pujols before Ichiro, but I'd have Ichiro in my top 5. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted June 17, 2003 And I think smart hitting is much more important than power hitting, unless you can take every pitch you see 400 I'd rather take the guy who can take every pitch far enough to get on base. If A-Rod was an all or nothing guy, I'd agree. But A-Rod consistently racks up OBPs of .400+. People don't see just how good A-Rod is. He could be the best shortstop since Honus Wagner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest starvenger Report post Posted June 17, 2003 And I think smart hitting is much more important than power hitting, unless you can take every pitch you see 400 I'd rather take the guy who can take every pitch far enough to get on base. I agree, which is why GMs would draft them ahead of the Delgados and Bonds of MLB... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest phoenixrising Report post Posted June 17, 2003 About the only Ichiro bashing I heard was in 2001 when they gave him the Rookie of the Year and everyone said it was unfair that they gave it to a guy with 10 years experience. Other than that, I never hear a negative thing about him. He's fun to watch. Every chopper he hits, it doesn't go into the outfield but you know he can beat it out. And he almost singlehandedly beat the Braves Sunday, creating the two runs Seattle needed. If I was making a team, I'd take him first. That speed, combined with his Gold Glove caliber defense in right, is a hard combination to beat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MarvinisaLunatic Report post Posted June 17, 2003 Pujols is a much better hitter. He's probably the best chance the majors have at a .400 hitter for a while. I thought Todd Helton would do it, but he's never really been able to bump his average up to that next level above the mid .300s. Pujols is a really consistant hitter. He has more power than Ichiro. I don't think he has the same speed though, but thats about all Ichiro has over Pujols. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted June 17, 2003 No one bashed Ichiro on this board. The topic of best player hasn't really been brought up recently. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Fallen Angel Report post Posted June 17, 2003 Not to be a dick, but someone get a urine sample off Soriano before heralding him as this great ballplayer. I know guys can change technique and bulk up and define and all that but something here screams "HHH workout" to me. Maybe just a gut feeling. Anyway, yeah, who has EVER badmouthed Ichiro? The guy's one of the best talents on in the game today in every aspect, and he rejuvenated the hell out of Seattle after Griffey and A-Rod skipped town. At least, they seem rejuvenated to me. Maybe a native can shed more light on the subject. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smell the ratings!!! Report post Posted June 17, 2003 I'd put Vlad, Ichiro, A-Rod, Pujos, Soriano basically in a tie for best position player. However, I think Bonds is still the best hitter in the league. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest kkktookmybabyaway Report post Posted June 17, 2003 "Everytime I watch this guy play I'm in awe" I don't watch that many Seattle games, but every time I do my jaw drops whenever Ichiro comes to the plate. Take Sunday's game for example -- he legged out 2 infield hits and stole third. Exciting stuff... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ghettoman Report post Posted June 17, 2003 I didn't say anyone bashed him I just don't think he gets the credit he deserves. And why is power so much more important than smart hitting? I'd take 9 guys who could put the ball where they want it over 9 guys who might take it long. And Soriano on the juice!? Thats not juice, thats Hank Aarons swing.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Fallen Angel Report post Posted June 17, 2003 If "Hank Aaron's Swing" is code for roidatine... I wouldn't necessarily want a team of nine small-ball hitters, because every now and then you want a guy who can take it deep. Not just for homeruns, but a guy who'll get you sac flys and the like. A smart power hitter with a good eye can be just as valuable as an Ichiro. At the very least, take your nine placement hitters and keep some monsters on the bench. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ghettoman Report post Posted June 17, 2003 Nah it was said as if you had to choose to 9 or one or the other, I personally would take a team of all smart hitters. And I have no idea why you think Soriano's on something, he doesn't hit 450 ft home runs, he's just got a damn good swing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DrTom Report post Posted June 17, 2003 And I have no idea why you think Soriano's on something, he doesn't hit 450 ft home runs, he's just got a damn good swing. Indeed he does. Besides, if he were on the juice, wouldn't he actually... you know... be BIG, or something? He's still a beanpole, for chrissakes. What makes him so dangerous is his strong wrists and forearms, which generate him an awful lot of bat speed. As a prospect, he was compared to Vlad Guerrero, and I think now we're seeing how valid that comparison is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MrRant Report post Posted June 17, 2003 I enjoy being able to watch Ichiro about 140 times a year and believe me... when you are at the game live... the guy FLYS down the line. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kotzenjunge Report post Posted June 17, 2003 Ichiro got me interested in baseball again. I just mark like a bitch every time I see him for some reason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest undisputedjericho Report post Posted June 18, 2003 , he's not american, at all really, and can anyone remember a time where the MLB has put effort into making a foreign star there biggest? I believe Sammy Sosa is from the Dominican Republic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BobbyWhioux Report post Posted June 18, 2003 Ichiro has HUSTLE. That's why I dig watching him play. Being a 4-tool player is a nice plus, too. (Routine grounder to second, and they only beat him by a step? !!!!!) That speed, that hustle, and that concentration on contact hitting make him the best candidate for the .400 holy grail that I can think of. And if there's one feat I'd like to see in my baseball watching life, it'd be a .400 season. And as for small ball vs. power, Superior small ball has won the last two world series: Arizona played superior small ball in 2001, and Anaheim played superior small ball in 2002. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted June 18, 2003 1, he's not american, at all really, and can anyone remember a time where the MLB has put effort into making a foreign star there biggest? When's the last time baseball tried to promote anything besides FOX's fall lineup? Seriously, any other league would be pimping the hell out of Albert Pujols by now. But baseball doesn't promote anyone. And as for small ball vs. power, Superior small ball has won the last two world series: Arizona played superior small ball in 2001, and Anaheim played superior small ball in 2002. Small ball damn near cost Arizona the World Series. Game 4. Orlando Hernandez throws eight straight balls, and can't find the plate. With two runners on, a big inning seems imminent. Bob Brenly's brainstorm? BUNT! No runners score in the inning. Earl Weaver said it best. Your biggest weapon are your 27 outs, and its utterly stupid to give the other team an out. Besides, Arizona won two of those in blowouts. Hardly "small ball." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smell the ratings!!! Report post Posted June 18, 2003 Small ball damn near cost Arizona the World Series. Game 4. Orlando Hernandez throws eight straight balls, and can't find the plate. With two runners on, a big inning seems imminent. Bob Brenly's brainstorm? BUNT! Well no strategy is going to work if the guy calling the shots is a dumbass. Anyway, ESPN put up a bunch of articles about the awesomness that is Pujos today. One even compares him to DiMaggio. Also they have a poll "Who are the three best young hitters" and Peter Gammons said: 1. Albert Pujos 2. Albert Pujos 3. Albert Pujos Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MaxPower27 Report post Posted June 18, 2003 ^^^ Pujols Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Deebo Report post Posted June 18, 2003 Ichiro is one of the only guys who can take over a game by himself and win it for his team. In that last game against the Braves a few days ago he legged out the single, steals second, steals third, then comes home and scores on a sac fly. He got that run basically by himself and without that the Mariners dont win 2-1. Tonight he goes 4-4 with 2 HR's raising his BA to .347 after starting the season in the mid .200's. I think we're gonna see maybe 15, 16 HR's from him this season. He's got the power but he's just never used it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted June 18, 2003 I'd just like to take this time to pimp Mark Prior. The next great pitcher in baseball. In his first full season he's already 8-3, with 2.88 ERA and he's only going to get better. If I'm starting a team this is the guy I want. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Some Guy Report post Posted June 18, 2003 , he's not american, at all really, and can anyone remember a time where the MLB has put effort into making a foreign star there biggest? I believe Sammy Sosa is from the Dominican Republic. I was going to say the same thing. Sosa has been marketed more than anyone in recent memory aside from McGuire (who had a better story, with all teh injuries and teh divorce and such). Ichiro is amazing, no question. He'd be my leadoff hitter anyday of the week. Pujols is also greta but he's a third year player and as such it's hard to market a guy, some tend to flame out. Although Pujols is getting better and it might be time for MLB to start puching him. Soriano has some holes in his game (Ks and only avg defense) but is very, very good and I highly doubt he's on roids. He just has really strong and quick wrists with an uppercut swing. A-Rod is still the best player in the game. He's 5-tool and all are unbeleivable. He hits for a good .avg (around .300), tremendous power (50+ Hrs), never makes errors at the hardest postition on the field), and was a 40-40 guy, he just decided not to risk injury by stealing anymore. Plus having Juan-gone and Palmiero behind you makes it pretty stupid to steal. That's why Nomar doesn't run very much with Manny behind him. Why steal a base to get your clean up guy walked? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted June 19, 2003 Pujols is also greta but he's a third year player and as such it's hard to market a guy, some tend to flame out. Although Pujols is getting better and it might be time for MLB to start puching him. baseball-reference.com has a terrific tool which measures the similarity of a player's stats with other players, and shows the most similar players, both overall, and at the same age. The players who had the most similar numbers to Pujols at 23 were Joe Dimaggio, Vlad Guerrero, Joe Medwick, Hank Aaron, and Stan Musial. I doubt he's going to flame out. While I'm looking.... Most similar to Soriano: Yankee great Joe Gordon Most similar to A-Rod: Mickey Mantle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
