Is the political bs returning?

[Guest RedJed]

Think about it....in the last year, things have gotten really different in the WWF, from a backstage perspective. It is clearly not the happy-go-lucky locker room as it once was...

 

-First came the WCW purchase, which seemed to rub alot of the WWFers the wrong way. Guys like Taker began really protecting his character in apparent fear or stubborness to put over anyone who hasn't paid their dues or something. How does he have the right to say who has and hasn't? This led to guys like Awesome being extremely held down to the point it was ridiculous. Total and utter dominance to the point of embarrassment for DDP. Ultimately, one could possibly deduct the Alliance angle failed because of Vince wanting to keep everyone somewhat happy in the locker room. That's just an outside observation.....I may be really wrong there, but it makes some sort of sense.

 

-Foley leaves the WWF due to reasons which have to do with management and the creative part of the company. In any regard, he didn't like what was going on at all.

 

-Guys like RVD totally get their pushes pulled out from under them for no good reason. Lots of forgotten storylines and lack of logic makes you think that alot of egos are dictating things backstage, one could assume at least. This part sounds way too much like WCW back in the day with guys going somewhere and then just all of a sudden turned into nothing.

 

-Then HHH returns. And then Hall and Nash return (which may have not happened unless it was thanks to HHH, ironic how they came in soon after HHH started full time again, eh?). And now Xpac is back in a huge role (thanks again to HHH IMO), which makes no sense logically since he was being half-buried before he was taken off TV. Throw those four together and it's scary. The only one of the 4 who might not be into anything political is Hall, just because he knows he can't afford anymore screwups. The other 3 are all benefitting right now one way or another. HHH is the world champ again, Nash can apparently get away with bitching to the owners that people are saying things to him off script when Nash has made a career out of doing that sort of thing, and then with XPac, he is clearly in a spot he doesn't deserve when you consider all of the talent being in way lower spots and putting out so much more than him.

 

-You add Hogan into the mix, who isn't doing the obvious political games, but could at any moment. There is a lot of talk how he was supposed to pass the torch at Mania and actually somehow by how own actions didn't really do such (since Rock came out looking actually a little worse than he did before the match, and Hogan like ten times better) but this was more because of how it was booked, which had nothing to do with Hogan really. He let Vince and Co. do the calls here........he honestly wanted to put the Rock over like he said months ago before. Very similar to Warrior in Toronto 12 years ago. Vince may have made a huge mistake by booking Hogan how he had going into Mania, as a legend and sentimental draw for nostalgia value. The clean job Rock did the week before to Hogan helped fuel it. Vince just better be careful how they book Hogan or else it might all get to his head again. At this point I consider Hogan humble, in all seriousness. So this isn't a factor right now, but could be.

 

-Then you got the Austin deal. He left TV because he didn't like how he was being handled with the NWO. He refused to lose at Mania. It's also been reported that he also left because he feels the HHH-Steph tandem holds way too much power with the book. Austin is just as guilty as the rest, IMO. Even if the rest of the guys would shape up for Austin's sake, the question is.......would Austin? If Vince, to try to get him back, kisses Austin's ass and offers him full creative control or something, it's going to get ugly.

 

-I'm sure there is other factors that others can think of. I know for example that one person has blatantly ackowledged some unfair things are happening in the back with protecting characters and stuff, and that is Jericho on Off the Record. I was really shocked to hear some of the things he said there, just general stuff like how people are unfairly being held down, and he isn't even concerned about renewing his contract.

 

What does everyone think? Is this just turning into the same internal cancer that killed off WCW for good or is this overreacting?

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

I agree with most of that. I'd lay less blame at Austin's door than the others though - he'd never book X-Pac into the main event scene, at least.

 

The egos of Nash and Hogan helped WCW to it's death bed. The WWF is obvioulsly a lot more secure, but with HHH added, I fear for any progress for the next five years.

[Guest mastermind]

You know since you brought up Jericho's interview on Off the Record it seems quite strange to me certain things he did talk about in relation to what we have been discussing. For those who didn't see the interview Jericho LASHED out against Vince when the interviewer said "Vince your boss came out recently and admitted wrestling was fake". Jericho responded with passion and said that the boss is stupid for making a comment like that. He said it's predetermined entertainment, but for the boss to come out and say it's fake he doesn't know what he talks about. He doesn't go in there taking bumps and whatnot. Jericho felt offended at the f word, but admitted it was predetermined.

 

Which leads me to this. Jericho spoke OPENLY about how he was given the title. No other wrestler over the weekend really did that. He stated that two weeks before Vengence Austin took him to a corner and told him he would be winning the belt. Now I think Jericho was very cunningly giving viewers the other side of things because he knew he was being booked like crap heading into Mania. He also knew about Triple H's comment I think. It depends whether Triple H went first in interviews. The airing of Triple H came a couple of days before. Revealing that info Jericho was letting it be known that he is booked to win the way he does.

 

Do anyone think Jericho doing this has harmed him more it's all the same crap either way for Jericho's booking?

[Guest Tony149]

I agree with most that was said. Hall & Nash were coming back either way IMO. If Vince doesn't buy WCW and lets it die or if he still buys it....Hall & Nash come in at some point. Same for Hogan.

[Guest Loss4Words]

Jericho probably didn't do himself any favors there, but he's dead on. Knowing how Keller used to criticize the hell out of Jericho and now he's one of his biggest supporters, it'll be interesting to see what kind of slant the whole Jericho-HHH saga coverage gets in the Torch.

 

Either way, I think Jericho knew he was doomed anyway. When the head writer/boss's daughter and her boyfriend, who happens to be your Mania opponent, have a vendetta against you because you're a better worker with more talent and mic skill and heat, I think it's safe to say that there's nothing you can really do to change that situation. Jericho could have gotten off-the-charts heat and the end result would have been the exact same.

 

I'm hoping for another long Rock feud. It's what he needs right now to reinvigorate his character.

[Guest Some Guy]

If you bring in the guys who played all the politics in WCW 3-4yrs ago and add it to HHH and Taker then one would think a problem might arise.  With the ratings up (5.4 for Raw) Vince will be happy, when they go down the politicians will be shown the door most likely.  He has the future stars already (RVD, Booker for the short term, Edge, Angle, Lesner possibly, Rhyno, Benoit, etc..) and Rock who by all accounts doesn't play to many political games.  So he'll probably just elevate them.  Hopefully.

[Guest Sandman9000]

It's disturbingly simple.  From now on, unless Jericho (or anyone else, for that matter) do not say that HHH and Steph rank higher then Jesus and Mary, they will be jobbing to Saturn on Jakked.  Kiss their asses or kiss your check and push good-bye.

[Guest godthedog]

wrestling as we know it is just getting stale.  vince is throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks; the problem is he's only throwing things he's tried before.

if he wants his company to progress, he'll have to use ideas nobody's done before.

[Guest Human Fly]

Let's just look at it how it is. Jericho lost the title, played second fiddle to Steph and HHH, Steph got pinned to be gone, and now Jericho spent Smackdown! whipping Lita and the Hardys who he is not even going to be on the same roster with. When Steph left Jericho's depush came. It's almost now like you have to play games to get anywhere. Crowd heat doesn't matter, wrestling skill doesn't matter. If you're not playing ball and kissing ass then you're not going anywhere.

[Guest]

There has always been political bullshit involved in who gets placed where on wrestling cards.  The simple truth is that wrestling's politics reflect the politics that go on in almost any major corporation.  The strongest minds or the people with the best connections (HHH) are going to be given every opportunity to succeed while the sometimes more talented guys (RVD) gets pushed down the food chain because the guys on top are worried that he will take their spot.

[Guest]

I blame the writers more than Nash, Hall, or HHH. They went along with it, and Nash may have even have been able to book the nWo angle better than it was/is.

 

They put Angle in a feud with Kane, then Edge. The WWF doesn't know what they are doing right now.

[Guest]

I dont know what austins deal is. I mean i can respect his view (if what we read is true) But its hard to feel sorry for a millionair  6 time  world champion who has sold more shirts than anybody in wrestling history, and has a hot blonde as a wife(although age isnt being very kind to debra) besides he didnt even want a program with hogan so whats he bitching about? And im still waiting for him to return one the billion jobs rock gave to him. Karma will get you every time.

[Guest Risk]

When will karma catch up Vince, Steph, and HHH?  When will they pay?

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

hopefully very soon.

[Guest Vyce]

Damn, now I simply must hear this Jericho Off the Record interview.

 

Anyone know where this is archived?  Or where I can find a transcript?

[Guest]

"what goes around comes around hunter"

-bret harts wife wrestling with shadows

 

4 and a half years later hunter is a multiple time world champ with unlimited backstage power and is banging a hot chick

 

bret is retired because of injury, divorced, and bitter

 

god does karma suck or what

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

he's banging a chick with the worlds most annoying voice, has to spend all his time hanging out with vince, and the majority of his co workers hate his guts because of his political BS. i think karma is catching up with him.

[Guest Human Fly]

I know a lot of people who think banging Steph annoying voice or not is good karma. What kind of criteria for bad karma is that anyway? "He's banging a chick with an annoying voice"

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

would you want to listen to that voice 24-7 especially when she's saying things like "You know I think it would be great if i were in the main event"?

[Guest Human Fly]

Probably not the best pillow talk

[Guest KTA]

Hold up, H was banging Chyna in her azz not long ago.

 

Her voice gives any hetero a shiver since she's a woman.

 

Now he's moved to Steph, nicer face, a better voice, and better boobz w his M E reign.

 

He's moved up and his roids have TOO

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

i'd like to see HHH dump stephanie and still have a job though.

[Guest KTA]

He'll love stpeh long time before he leaves her.

 

But he's on roids and can't perform most likely when he wants to, so he must shove his tongue in her ass a lot. Chyna said he's very anal.HHH ' s said that he's bi, I think this is very wrong to talk about. So I won't

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

lol

 

i'll always remember HHH screwing that line up.

[Guest Dangerous A]

Back to the original post, political bs has and always will be a part of the business. A lot of the examples have been shed the last couple of days. Flair-Luger/Steiner, Hogan-anyone, HHH-Jericho, Austin-Hall/nwo and so on. Can someone in this forum tell me a time between WCW and WWF that there wasn't some political game being played by someone? Hell, even Bruno and Billy Graham played their political cards. Everyone has pointed out that the Rock has not played any politics since his acsension to ME status. Wait. Just you wait. If he doesnt' already bolt for Hollywood and the pops die out and the guy can't recreate himself, he'll play backstage backstabber too. If you think Chris Benoit is going anywhere near the ME, he's gonna at least have some friends in high places to get there. This is a backstabbing, cutthroat business. The nice guys really do finish last. Hard work and dedication to your craft will get you no where. And if it does, it will not keep you there. You almost have to play the backstage game. I do not advocate it, but at the same time I don't blame them. This business is all about your spot. What if your spot is getting fucked with by other wrestlers or writers? You'd come out swinging. Or be a nice guy that let's people run all over them. You do that, it's less money in the pocket. Your spot on the card determines how much you get paid and how much tv time you get to sell yourself and merchandise. Of course those with power are going to try to get themselves over the current business need. It's the nature of the business fellas. If you don't like it, go to the indies or Japan. Unfortunatly, that is fact.

[Guest The Man in Blak]

Well, if one of the other rumors flying around about Rock asking Vince to do "everything in his power" to get Rock/Hogan for Wrestlemania is true, then I would say that even the Great One isn't immune to politicking.

 

And as far as Karma goes, I'd say Triple H's injury and subsequent horrible return is a couple of steps in the right direction.

[Guest RedJed]

I think someone asked about the OTR Jericho interview, whatever TSN's site is, that's where I found it, I think.

 

I actually do agree that political manuevering will always be in the business, but this is just too much if most of what is being reported is true. I honestly think that ECW never really had much of this BS.......everyone did their job as was told, didn't use any stroke, etc. Everything was done as it should be......just like any job you do as you are told.

 

Wrestlers should put their faith in the writers who should be doing business independantly and not having it intertwined with relations with the wrestlers in anyway. Ideally the bookers should not be best friends with any of the boys so none of them can work the writers to push them harder. But if the writers just did business and didn't give in to political games, then there would be no point in the boys trying to make any moves. The problem is they aren't all independant right now when one of the boys is banging a main writer in the company, also. I think the whole wrestler to writer thing comes down to trust. The boys should trust the writers to handle their characters as good as possible. But I can see how its hard when Steph is in a relationship with Hunter in RL, that would be frustrating if I was a worker right now too.

 

I think some guys in the business have not put up a guard and not protected their character, and yet come out swinging. Flair has never really been too much into it. He has never refused a job to my recollection. He's let alot of people run over him and still to this day is making great money.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Jericho said that renewing his contract isn't that important. For arguments sake let's say Jericho doesn't renew. What do you think he'll do. Go to Japan, or retire from the business and do something else.

[Guest muzanisa]

Jericho stated in an interview shortly before he signed for the WWF that he liked Japan and would have liked to work there more when he was in WCW (unlike RVD who's stated that he hates it there, and could also be coming up for contract renewal). If his current contract is as bad as has been reported then it's likely that he wouldn't take too much of a pay cut to go to Japan. Factor in he would be a free agent that you could actually build a fed around unlike say Bagwell or Luger and it might be the best thing that could happen to him. But wasn't it reported that he'd signed a contract recently?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Just an idle question....

 

Do you think that Jericho was pissed when his program with RVD was canceled?  I mean...we discuss its effect on RVD...but to be truthful...the RVD program was the hottest one that Jericho had with his run.

 

The heat for the match, the promo the next show that RVD interrupted and the tag matches they competed in...were hotter than the Rock match at Rumble...or the Austin match at No Way Out.

 

Now...had Jericho continued the program with Van DAm, he would have scored a cleanish victory over a super hot talent at the Rumble.

 

Instead he beat the Rock for the third time in 3 months...and it did nothing for him.

 

Was the feud scrapped because RVD was too over, or because the feud was too over?  or because Jericho would have gotten heat from it too?

 

Anyway it goes down...the feud ended on January 7.