Annapolis lawmaker puts toy guns in cross hairs

[Guest EdwardKnoxII]

http://washingtontimes.com/metro/20030617-...14826-6331r.htm

 

An Annapolis lawmaker wants to enact a law that would ban most toy guns in the city and fine parents whose children are caught playing with the toys outdoors.

Alderwoman Cynthia A. Carter, Democrat, said the law would ban all toy guns except for clear, brightly colored plastic guns. Mrs. Carter said the law also would give prosecutors more leverage against defendants who use toy guns to hold up banks or other establishments.

"If someone commits a felony with one, they will not only be charged with the crime but also with using a toy gun," said Mrs. Carter, who has been a member on the Annapolis City Council since 1997.

Mrs. Carter said she doesn't know how much of a fine she will propose. She said she hopes her legislation, which she plans to introduce next month, will set a precedent for other cities to follow. Four of the nine city council members have come out in support of Mrs. Carter's proposal.

"Anything that can be done to deglamorize guns is a plus," said Annapolis Mayor Ellen O. Moyer, Democrat. The mayor said she would withhold further comment until the bill has been introduced and a public hearing is held.

Yesterday, officials with the Annapolis Police Department said if such a law is enacted they would not pull officers off their regular beats to catch children playing with water pistols and cap guns in schoolyards or on neighborhood streets.

"We wouldn't do that," said Officer Hal Dalton, a spokesman for the city police department.

Mrs. Carter decided to draft her proposal after a 7-year-old boy in April used a silver toy revolver and announced to several employees at a Hollywood Video store in Annapolis that he would hold up the store. The plastic orange tip typically found on the muzzles of toy guns had been removed, preventing two store employees from realizing it was fake.

"Children have got to be alerted that this is a dangerous thing," Mrs. Carter said. "Guns are not a toy, no matter how you look at it."

Mrs. Carter's legislation is based on a similar New York City proposal, which bans anyone from selling or possessing a "toy or imitation firearm" that can be mistaken for a real weapon. The ban excludes brightly colored or clear plastic guns. Police, however, could impose a $50 fine if the toy gun is altered to look like a real weapon.

New York City police would enforce the law only if a child causes a disruption in public with a toy gun. But Lupe Todd, a spokeswoman for the New York City Council, said she does not expect officers to seek out children playing with toy guns.

Mrs. Carter said she wants the toy companies to take more responsibility when creating guns.

"Toy companies think that they can put the little reflective tip on the end and they will be OK," Mrs. Carter said. "But it is not enough."

Shannon Eis, spokeswoman for the Toy Industry Association, said the group already complies with national standards that regulate the production of realistic toy weapons. "Toy guns are just a small component of the violent medium that kids nowadays are exposed to," she said.

Mrs. Eis said the association will comply with Annapolis regulations if they are approved and will try to appease parents who think the toys are a serious contributing factor to violence. "I don't agree that it is," she said.

Karalyn Mulligan, executive director of Prevent Child Abuse Maryland, said there is always a concern about children's safety when it comes to guns. But she said the idea of restricting toy guns deserves further investigation.

Mrs. Carter is known for her efforts on toy guns. In 2000, Mrs. Carter organized a toy-gun buyback that yielded 12 toy guns.

Mrs. Carter said she anticipates full support from all council members. The council is made up of two Republicans and seven Democrats. She speculates that her greatest obstacle will be fathers, who she believes encourage their sons to play with guns and take them to target practice.

Despite her stance on toy guns, Mrs. Carter said she supports her son, Richard Perry, 38, who is an avid hunter and a member of the National Rifle Association. "He is a grown man. That was his decision," she said.

Mrs. Carter said she would eventually like to see a ban imposed on the possession of all real-looking toy guns. "Anything that looks like or resembles a weapon of any kind or was altered to look like, even the cigarette lighters, they are not going to be acceptable," she said.

 

 

The only possible reason I can see to outlaw toy guns is to keep some kid from getting shot because he decided to pull it on a cop or rob a store with it...

 

But that's just social darwinism, so...

Edited June 19, 2003 by EdwardKnoxII

[Guest Cancer Marney]

"If someone commits a felony with one, they will not only be charged with the crime but also with using a toy gun," said Mrs. Carter

That one ridiculous quote alone sums up this entire issue. I've always bitched about the country of Lewis and Clark, George Washington, and Robert E Lee becoming pussified to the degree that it has, but this will be the final nail in the coffin if it ever comes to pass. When we charge people for using TOY GUNS to commit a crime.

God, just... uh, shoot me now.

[Guest Lightning Flik]

That one ridiculous quote alone sums up this entire issue. I've always bitched about the country of Lewis and Clark, George Washington, and Robert E Lee becoming pussified to the degree that it has, but this will be the final nail in the coffin if it ever comes to pass. When we charge people for using TOY GUNS to commit a crime.

God, just... uh, shoot me now.

Sure thing.

 

Now where's my toy gun to do so.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

What's even stupider about that remark is the fact that someone would only get one charge if they used a REAL one. Armed Robbery.

 

If you use you little brother's red-rider BB gun or a black Uzi squirtgun ala Airheads, you're getting Armed Robber, AND assault with a harmless weapon.

[Guest The Hollywood Fashion Plate]

Mrs. Carter is known for her efforts on toy guns. In 2000, Mrs. Carter organized a toy-gun buyback that yielded 12 toy guns.

Did anyone else find this to be REALLY funny?

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

I wonder if she was one of the 10 women that protested at Augusta this year?

 

Oh, and this idea is stupid. Are we now going to sue TOY gun makers once scumbags like these suck the real gun makers out of cash...

[Guest hardyz1]

:::sighs and shakes head uncontrollably:::

[Guest Ripper]

But seriously, what is the point of toy guns anyway. I think that they are just plain stupid toys in the first place. I mean seriously, it teaches kids to point at another person adn pull the trigger. When a child finds a real gun its intial reaction is point at another person and pull the trigger. I don't think they need to be bought anyway, ESPECIALLY the ones that look like real guns. If those fuckers aren't a neon color, then they shouldn't be in existance. What can the real purpose of a gun that looks like the real thing possible serve. The lady that is purposing this is a dipshit, but she isn't completely wrong.

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

Toys guns are great for a lot of things. You can't shoot your indian friend with a stick.

 

In my day we had real toy guns -- not those hippie ones with the bright orange barrel. There's no greater feeling as a kid when you are creeping across a neighbor's lawn with a wooden machine gun that not only has the perfect cammo-color but also makes that rat-a-tat sound when you squeeze the trigger. Heck, I even liked pumping my old plastic shotgun before I turned a corner and said "bang" to my friend hiding behind a garbage can expecting me to come the other way...

[Guest The Metal Maniac]

what is the point of toy guns anyway.

 

Jeez, I don't know...for kids to PLAY with?

 

My question is...exactly what would one be charged with if they robbed a bank with a toy gun? I mean, could they really get you for armed robbery, considering that you WEREN'T armed?

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

I'd say sure because people assumed you were armed. Off topic a bit: One of my better half's friends baby's dad is currently in jail for robbing a bank. From what I heard he got 2 (or a similar number) years for the actual stickup and 7 for pointing a gun at someone...

[Guest Ripper]

what is the point of toy guns anyway.

 

Jeez, I don't know...for kids to PLAY with?

 

My question is...exactly what would one be charged with if they robbed a bank with a toy gun? I mean, could they really get you for armed robbery, considering that you WEREN'T armed?

what I MEAN jackass is what is the point of a having a TOY that emulates a such a dangerous weapon. There is no justifiable reason to create a realistic looking guns and giving them to children and saying "Go run along and play now." There can't possibly be a "real" argument for having them as toys.

[Guest Powerplay]

what is the point of toy guns anyway.

 

Jeez, I don't know...for kids to PLAY with?

 

My question is...exactly what would one be charged with if they robbed a bank with a toy gun? I mean, could they really get you for armed robbery, considering that you WEREN'T armed?

what I MEAN jackass is what is the point of a having a TOY that emulates a such a dangerous weapon. There is no justifiable reason to create a realistic looking guns and giving them to children and saying "Go run along and play now." There can't possibly be a "real" argument for having them as toys.

Being that boys are naturally agressive and rougher when they play with each other, toy guns actually offer a safer alternative since it doesn't require physical contact while still giving them a playful outlet for their more aggressive tendencies.

 

And if you think that this somehow causes more gun deathes, then how come in the 50s and 60s we didn't have mass killings of Native Americans? Because we all know how many young boys played "Cowboys and Indians" back then .

[Guest Ripper]

Well, there weren't that many left in the 50's and 60's...now go further back in time....

[Guest Powerplay]

If you go back further, Indians were a legitimate threat to ones life ( At least, the one you are hinting at). It wasn't because of some toy guns that this came about. Now please answer the question: Was there an increase in the killing of Native Americans in the 50's and 60's, when most kids would have been playing "Cowboys and Indians" during the most impressionable years of their life? Or hell, let's expand it into the 70's as well.

[Guest Ripper]

Well, there wasn't a increase in killing Koala bears in North America then either. By the 50's and 60's a vast majority of Native Americans were regulated to reservations that those that were not were not plentiful enough...

 

wait...

 

what the fuck does this have to do with anything. You are saying it is cool to let kids play with realistic looking guns because people didn't start killing Indians? What the hell.

 

I don't believe in long term effects of the toy guns. Once you are a adult, you should know that a real gun kills. What bugs me is the fact that everyday there is some kid losing his/her life or limbs because they thought it was a toy...seeing as it looked just like the toy gun he runs around going "pow" with. How can anyone possible defend making REALISTIC toy guns. Some Cop shoots a kid and the his life is destroyed because the child had a black, shiney plastic gun or a metalic toy gun.

 

There is no reason that those neon one shouldn't be the only toy guns available.

[Guest CoreyLazarus416]

Yes, making REALISTIC toy guns is a dumb idea. But that doesn't mean toy guns that aren't all "hey look, a clown on LSD painted my toy gun!" should be banned.

 

I grew up with toy guns. And you know what? I feel I'm more peaceful now. I had toy guns that looked like actual weapons (including a toy AK-47 that I wish I still had), and toy guns that were so ridiculous-looking it was obvious (anybody else remember the pull-apart "Stealth Force" M-60 that doubled as a mini-assault rifle, and the tip shot plastic suction-cup darts?).

 

In the inner-city, where seeing somebody hold a real gun on the street is a huge possibility? Realistic toy guns SHOULD be banned. But elsewhere? Stupid. Most realistic toy guns are about 2/3 the size of its real counterparts, having the large plastic tip, and say something like "TOOTSIE" on its side.

 

...man, all this talk about toy guns makes me wanna go find my old buddies and play WAR in my yard...

[Guest Powerplay]

Well, there wasn't a increase in killing Koala bears in North America then either. By the 50's and 60's a vast majority of Native Americans were regulated to reservations that those that were not were not plentiful enough...

 

wait...

 

what the fuck does this have to do with anything. You are saying it is cool to let kids play with realistic looking guns because people didn't start killing Indians? What the hell.

 

I don't believe in long term effects of the toy guns. Once you are a adult, you should know that a real gun kills. What bugs me is the fact that everyday there is some kid losing his/her life or limbs because they thought it was a toy...seeing as it looked just like the toy gun he runs around going "pow" with. How can anyone possible defend making REALISTIC toy guns. Some Cop shoots a kid and the his life is destroyed because the child had a black, shiney plastic gun or a metalic toy gun.

 

There is no reason that those neon one shouldn't be the only toy guns available.

But seriously, what is the point of toy guns anyway. I think that they are just plain stupid toys in the first place. I mean seriously, it teaches kids to point at another person adn pull the trigger. When a child finds a real gun its intial reaction is point at another person and pull the trigger.

 

Then why the hell did you say this in the first place? You are saying that it teaches kids to shoot other people. I asked if there was an increase in Indian Deaths during the time period which most kids would be playing "Cowboys and Indians" because they are learning to shoot the guns only at "Indians".

 

Anyways, you act like these guns are indistinguishable copies of the real thing. Seriously, if you put a real gun and it's "toy version" on the table it's quite easy to tell them apart. You mention the rare but always well-publicized "We thought it was a real gun but turned out to be fake" deaths that are 1 in a million chances.

[Guest Ripper]

No, they aren't one in a million cases. It happens far FAR too often in inner city areas...of course it is Middle Americas stance to act like it isn't there and it didn't happen when it comes to the happenings outside of what is reported on the news. Hell, they did a whole episode of GOOD TIMES (DY-NO-MYTE!!!!!) about it in the 70's because it was a common problem.

 

To you and me, two guns on the table and it is easily distiguishable which is real and which is not. But to a 5 year old, both got the same parts...hell most kids will try and take a bite out of plastic fruit despite knowing it is real. Why wouldn't they pull the trigger on a gun that looks like the one they got for their birthday.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Shut up! SHUT UP! Just fucking shut up!!!

 

This woman wants to ban toy guns. TOY GUNS. What part of the word "TOY" do you not understand?! Christ! You make it sound like cops run around looking for five year-olds pointing their fingers at each other and going BANG BANG BANG and shooting them just for the hell of it. THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN. If a cop shoots a kid waving a TOY GUN in his face (and yes, I know it has happened in the past) then the cop would have done something equally BONEHEADED at some point and it's better for all concerned that allowing him to enter the force in the first place resulted in only ONE fatality. JESUS CHRIST!

 

TOY GUNS. She wants to ban TOY GUNS. Don't you get this yet? They're TOYS. They're NOT indistinguishable from the real thing. And despite all the Columbine &c shit that's been happening lately the average adult does NOT see the average child as a threat to life and limb. There is no epidemic of children being killed by cops because they're toting around fucking TOY GUNS.

 

Jesus fucking Christ... just shut up.

[Guest The Metal Maniac]

What bugs me is the fact that everyday there is some kid losing his/her life or limbs because they thought it was a toy...seeing as it looked just like the toy gun he runs around going "pow" with.

 

So wait...if kids had no toy guns, then when they found a REAL gun (which their parents should have never let happen in the first place, assuming that the gun was in the home) then they wouldn't pull the trigger anyway?

 

Fer chrissakes, they're KIDS. They PLAY with things. I dunno about you, but when I was a kid, if I found something that looked neat, I played with it. It didn't have to be a toy. Fuck, I think I used to play with my dad's vicegrips when I was little.

 

The point is, children are curious little buggers, who, when they find something that looks new/interesting, will oftentimes play with these things. So, really, ANY child, whether or not he's ever played with, owned, or even SEEN a toy gun, is at a risk when REAL guns are involved. It's not like they're hard to figure out. You don't need to have ever held a gun before to realize that the part which fits comfortably in your hand probably belongs there, and you don't need to know how a gun works to realize that it's probably gonna do something when you pull that little thingy back with your finger.

 

Toy guns do not kill children. REAL ones do.

 

Personally, I say that if a fake version of something is dangerous enough to warrant people calling for the ban of it, then perhaps you should look at what to do with the real deal first, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

[Guest MarvinisaLunatic]

Guns are definitely not Annapolis' problem. The place is full of theives.

 

I lived there for 3 1/2 months last year doing an internship, and my appartment was broken into twice in the span of about a week. The first time they pretty much cleared the place out (they even took my bed for crying out loud!). The second time was about a week later and they broke in but I didn't have hardly anything for them to steal except for my nike shoes which I wasn't wearing because I was at work. And the first guy was a drug addict that was homeless and didn't have a job, he was ordered to pay restitution but proceded to go on a drug binge and got arrested and taken to a drug rehab center after almost being dead when they found him. $1500 worth of stuff..gone..just like that. Luckily I didn't have my computer or any of that stuff with me at the time, but I did have an old tv, my gamecube, a cd player, a few cds and some clothes. And they found my shoes 2 days later stashed in a bag in a wooded area, but they smelled like piss.

[Guest Ripper]

Shut up! SHUT UP! Just fucking shut up!!!

 

This woman wants to ban toy guns. TOY GUNS. What part of the word "TOY" do you not understand?! Christ! You make it sound like cops run around looking for five year-olds pointing their fingers at each other and going BANG BANG BANG and shooting them just for the hell of it. THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN. If a cop shoots a kid waving a TOY GUN in his face (and yes, I know it has happened in the past) then the cop would have done something equally BONEHEADED at some point and it's better for all concerned that allowing him to enter the force in the first place resulted in only ONE fatality. JESUS CHRIST!

 

TOY GUNS. She wants to ban TOY GUNS. Don't you get this yet? They're TOYS. They're NOT indistinguishable from the real thing. And despite all the Columbine &c shit that's been happening lately the average adult does NOT see the average child as a threat to life and limb. There is no epidemic of children being killed by cops because they're toting around fucking TOY GUNS.

 

Jesus fucking Christ... just shut up.

And I am not talking about banning all toy guns...and looking at the article niether is the lady in the article. REALISTIC toy guns do exist..go to a toy store. Now most of them are obviously undersized replicas that couldn't be confused for real guns but some are look real enough. My point is that their is no purpose in making a TOY gun that can remotely pass for the real thing.

 

Its like when gun manufactures advertise that a gun has a new "fingerprint resistant grip". Their is no justifiable reason to advertise this or put this on a gun. What reason can their possibly be for making a TOY gun look remotley realistic. So that the child gets the feeling he is playing with a real gun? Create suspension of disbelief so that you can really believe you are shooting your friends? What? Really...name one GOOD reason for a toy gun to be manufactured to look realistic and I won't say a word. ONE reason why it wouldn't make more sense to make a gun that doesn't look realistic over one that has a metalic finish or the ones that actually make the guns out of metal so they are heavier. ONE GOOD REASON.

[Guest CoreyLazarus416]

One good reason? Children get tired of playing with obviously fake-looking things, and want to use ones that look real.

 

All it takes is parents telling the kids "if you see a police man, don't wave the toy gun at him/her, and if they come over and want to see it, let them see it."

[Guest La Parka Es Mi Papa]

How about one good reason NOT to make realistic toy guns? Because I haven't seen one.

[Guest CoreyLazarus416]

"Ummm...they look real and could lead to deaths if the kids wave it at cops!"

 

Then again, kids would be smart enough to not wave them at cops if told not to.

 

"Uh...there's no reason for them to look real."

 

No reason for them to look fake.