Guest Report post Posted March 28, 2002 I'm sick of hearing you guys on the board say Kurt Angle's first title reign was a disaster. Look at Angle's reign as Champion and you decide. ...........PPV Archive............. 2000 No MercyOctober 22, 2000 Kurt Angle over WWF Champion The Rock to win the title. 2000 Survivor SeriesNovember 19, 2000 WWF Champion Kurt Angle over The Undertaker. 2000 Rebellion: December 2, 2000 Fatal Four-Way Match: WWF Champion Kurt Angle over The Rock, Steve Austin, & Rikishi. 2000 Armageddon: December 10, 2000 6-Man Hell In A Cell Match: WWF Champion Kurt Angle over Steve Austin, The Rock, Rikishi, Triple H, and The Undertaker 2001 Royal Rumble: January 21, 2001 WWF Champion Kurt Angle over Triple H. 2001 No Way Out: February 25, 2001 The Rock over WWF Champion Kurt Angle to win the title ...........RAW Archive:Angle As Champ.,.... October 23, 2000: World Champion, Kurt Angle, fought to a No Contest against The Rock and Triple H. October 30, 2000: World Champion, Kurt Angle, defeated Triple H by Disqualification... November 6, 2000: Steve Austin fought Kurt Angle and Rikishi Phatu to a No Contest in a handicap match. November 13, 2000: : World Champion, Kurt Angle, defeated Crash Crash, Hardcore Holly and The Undertaker defeated Edge, Christian, and Kurt Angle November 27, 2000 Steve Austin defeated World Champion, Kurt Angle, by Disqualification. December 4, 2000 World Champion, Kurt Angle, defeated Chris Jericho.. December 11, 2000: The Dudley Boyz and The Rock defeated Edge, Christian, and Kurt Angle in a table match December 18, 2000 World Champion, Kurt Angle, and Vince McMahon fought to a No Contest. December 25, 2000 Kurt Angle, Edge, and Christian defeated The Dudley Boyz and Chris Jericho. January 1, 2001 ...The Dudley Boyz and Chris Jericho defeated Kurt Angle, Edge, and Christian.. January 8, 2001: World Champion, Kurt Angle, and Steve Austin fought to a No Contest. January 15, 2001 Steve Austin and The Acolytes defeated Kurt Angle, Edge, and Christian. January 22, 2001 Triple H and Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley defeated Kurt Angle and Trish Stratus. (Imagine That) February 5, 2001: The Rock and Kurt Angle defeated Steve Austin and Triple H. February 12, 2001 Kurt Angle and Raven defeated Big Show and Essa Rios...The Rock defeated Rikishi Phatu. February 19, 2001 The Rock and Steve Austin defeated Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit. ............SMACKDOWN Archive........ October 26, 2000: Chris Jericho defeated World Champion, Kurt Angle, by Disqualuification November 2, 2000: The Rock defeats World Champion, Kurt Angle, by Disqualification. November 9, 2000: No Match November 16, 2000: Kane and Kurt Angle defeated The Undertaker and Chris Jericho.. November 23, 2000: No Match November 30, 2000: The Rock and The Undertaker defeated Kurt Angle, Edge, and Christian in a handicap match. December 7, 2000: The Undertaker, Kurt Angle, The Rock, and Steve Austin fought to a No Contest. December 14, 2000: The Rock and Steve Austin defeated Kurt Angle and William Regal. December 21, 2000: No Match December 28, 2000: No Match January 4, 2001: World Champion, Kurt Angle, defeated The Rock by Disqualification. January 11, 2001: No Match January 18, 2001 ...The Rock, The Undertaker, and Steve Austin defeated Kurt Angle, Kane, and Rikishi Phatu. Triple H was special guest referee. January 25, 2001: World Champion, Kurt Angle defeated Kane. February 1, 2001: World Champion, Kurt Angle, defeated The Rock. February 8, 2001: No Match February 15, 2001: No Match February 22, 2001: Edge, Christian, and Kurt Angle defeated The Undertaker, Kane, and The Rock. --------------------------------------------- All in All, I'd call it a pretty damn good Title Reign.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest muzanisa Report post Posted March 28, 2002 The defining moment that made it a afilure for me was against the Undertaker he went under the ring. Undertaker dragged him out pinned him but it was Eric. Kurt looked weak and was playing it like he was shit scared of the Undertaker and overcame his terror by pouring porridge on his bike.??? The HIAC match I remember as him being lucky in that his arm fell on Rock when everyone was wiped out What I really remember from that match is Rikishi taking a crap bump into a truck full of sawdust. I'm pretty sure he didn't get a clean PPV win as Champ but even if he did he came across IMO as a weak Champ. Going through the Raw and Smackdown matches I remember very few but apart from wins over Kane, Jericho and Rock (were they clean wins?) it's all tag matches, losses, no contests, or DQ wins. I quite like Kurt (despite being put off by the slavish devotion of some of his more hysterical fans) and think that he should be given another chance with the belt, but my perception at the time, right from him being scared of Taker was that he was a lame duck champ; and I haven't changed my mind since. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Mighty Damaramu Report post Posted March 28, 2002 Fact is they booked him almost as bad as they booked Jericho. As a big wuss who couldn't get the job done on his own. It seems only HHH, Rock, and Austin are the only people allowed to look credible as champions. The other 2 champions in the past 2 years(Angle and Jericho) haven't been made to look credible at all. They look like second rate losers who only have the belt because someone helped them or they got lucky. That is the WWF's problem these days....nobody but the established stars are allowed to look credible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 28, 2002 The HIAC match I remember as him being lucky in that his arm fell on Rock when everyone was wiped out No, he really did pin the Rock. Everyone was wiped out and he kind of crawled a little and put his hand on him. You make it sound like he landed on him accidently. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest muzanisa Report post Posted March 28, 2002 No, he really did pin the Rock. Everyone was wiped out and he kind of crawled a little and put his hand on him. You make it sound like he landed on him accidently. It's hardly an olympic slam into and Anglelock in the middle of the ring for 30 seconds with Rocky tapping at the end though is it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 28, 2002 But the whole point of the match was "Who will survive?" Everyone knew that it wasn't going to end with one person standing dominant, it was "who can outlast everyone else?" BTW-It was the EXACT way HBK won the first HiaC. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted March 28, 2002 FeArHaVoC, what does this prove? NOTHING. You just copied and pasted a whole bunch of results from an archive. Did you actually see any of the matches? If so, bring up some details about the matches to support your point. If not, then why did you waste our time like this? (Reading last night's house show results and PRAYING Anglesault doesn't make a new whiny thread.....) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest muzanisa Report post Posted March 28, 2002 But the whole point of the match was "Who will survive?" Everyone knew that it wasn't going to end with one person standing dominant, it was "who can outlast everyone else?" Pedant Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted March 28, 2002 [FeArHaVoC, what does this prove? NOTHING. You just copied and pasted a whole bunch of results from an archive. Did you actually see any of the matches? If so, bring up some details about the matches to support your point. If not, then why did you waste our time like this?] What don't you get? Angle had a nice 4 month title reign. He beat or at least defended against every credible name the WWF had. Who gives a shit if he cheated to win. He's the Damn Heel. Heel's cheat! It's nothing new. Hell, Honky Tonk Man held the Intercontinental Championship for 14 months I believe? He cheated every time he wrestled. Does that make him look weak and does that mean a 14 month title reign was a failure? Get off your So-called "Smark" chair and look at the over all picture. I'm sure most of us on here would love to see heels like Angle and Jericho win clean against everyone like Austin, Taker, Rock, Triple H, Hogan, whomever, but that isn't good TV. If heels won clean every time they would start getting Babyface pops and the WWF doesn't want that. Plus, it would make the "Big" names look weak. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted March 28, 2002 Maybe if you had said any of this in your original post, your stance (a typical anti-smark one, where have I seen that before...) would have been a little clearer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 28, 2002 (Reading last night's house show results and PRAYING Anglesault doesn't make a new whiny thread.....) What happened Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest muzanisa Report post Posted March 28, 2002 Angle had a nice 4 month title reign. He beat or at least defended against every credible name the WWF had. Who gives a shit if he cheated to win. He's the Damn Heel. Heel's cheat! If that's your point fair enough. The difference was with Honky I was expecting him to be beat every time he defended it and he never was. Angle I was just kind of waiting for him to get beaten and was surprised when he made it past the Hell in a cell and HHH and had lost interest by the time he faced Rock Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted March 28, 2002 Angle tapped to a Crash Holly anklelock. Maybe I'm bullshitting you, maybe not. Or maybe you should look for yourself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 28, 2002 No, I read it. He jobbed clean to the Big Red Midcarder, and got beat up by Earl Hebner and made a fool by a fan. At least they're not trying to claim that Kurt is still a main eventer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted March 28, 2002 Are you going to make a whole new thread about it or just weep? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest muzanisa Report post Posted March 28, 2002 The fan interaction stuff sounds priceless. That's why I like Angle because he can do stuff like that and he puts on good matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 28, 2002 Are you going to make a whole new thread about it or just weep? No, I'll just Brood over it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MARTYEWR Report post Posted March 28, 2002 I'm just reading the report of that house show on 411: "Angle actually almost laughed, but held it in and moved on to Kyle, a 12 year old African American kid, who said he was a Kurt Angle fan. Kurt asked him, "Really?" to which the little kid replied "No Mother Fucker!" and ran into the stands. Angle was obviously taken back and left with his "You can all kiss my Olympic Ass!" " That's too damn funny. Gotta love some of America's future! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mystery Eskimo Report post Posted March 28, 2002 It depends on what you term a failure. Kurt had a lot of good matches as champ, I'm guessing the ratings weren't amazing but who have they been for recently. His cheating was never as ridiculous as Jericho's has been - ok, apart from the Undertaker incident, which was just stupid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DebilitatorX Report post Posted March 28, 2002 Angle's win/loss record was never the issue, it was the fact that the WWF booked him to look like the biggest lame-duck champion since the Honky Tonk Man. Y2J actually made it to WrestleMania, with Angle it was just a question of when and where he was going to drop the strap to Rocky. And at least Y2J took shortcuts on his own (feet on the ropes), Angle needed to hide an IMPOSTER underneath the ring...it brought back bad memories of WrestleMania IX and Doink vs. Crush. Was it two Kurts, was it an illusion? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest dreamer420 Report post Posted March 28, 2002 I thought his first title reign was excellent. He defended the title on a few PPV's and got some big wins in some big matches. His second one was a different story... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted March 28, 2002 Angle's first title reign was a disaster because of a few things: 1. He was booked as a cartoonish, cowardly Memphis heel who couldn't win a match cleanly to save his life. He, like Jericho, deserves far better than beeing Honky Tonk Men for the 21st century. 2. He wasn't even the top heel in the fed at the time (that honor, once again, was reserved for HHH). 3. Survivor Series 2000. They borrowed an angle from Doink, fer chrissakes. Doink!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 28, 2002 Of course when he is the biggest heel, Jericho has it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted March 28, 2002 It was better than Jericho's. That's for sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Mighty Damaramu Report post Posted March 29, 2002 "He's the Damn Heel. Heel's cheat!" Yeah Heels hold onto the ropes or use a foreign object. They don't use every way in the world to cheat and then just barely squeak by. Fact is if he(or Jericho) had just taken a cheapshot to win or actually beaten some mid-carders definetly(why can't they have clean wins over mid-carders?) then maybe they wouldn't look like such pussies. Speaking of the heels cheat argument. Look at HHH in 2000. Yes he cheated. But he looked dominant when he did it....not like a pussy. He didn't need help from the world and he didn't need to use every heel tactic to squeak by. And he beat mid-carders definetly. If he fought someone in Edge's position(like Jericho did) he didn't need to cheat to win(like Jericho or Angle). There's no Smark high horse here dude. Just facts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted March 29, 2002 Angle first title reign was a good one because all of his victories were total surprises. No one thought he was gonna beat Rock at No Mercy, and he did. His win over Undertaker as Survivor Series was great as he used a cheating system that would have made Ric Flair proud. He came away victorious from that god awful Hell in a Cell match. And he beat HHH at Royal Rumble, where I thought he'd lose for sure. The only lame PPV match he had was with Rock at No Way Out cause it was obvious he was going to job and set up Wrestlemania's main event. It was a pretty good reign, not nearly as good as HHH's heel reign during the McMahon-Helmsley era, but it was much better than Jericho's eye rolling Undisputed Title reign. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest godthedog Report post Posted March 29, 2002 angle did all right with the title, but i think the reign did more for him than what he did for the belt. he specifically didn't make the title look weak--having a heel champion who wins on flukes & cheating is nice to put heat on the guy & build up a feud where the babyface wins it in the end, but the fed is doing a disturbing trend of doing this all the time. remember when it was normal for the face to hold the title? since october 2001, the belt has been held by a face for a total of about 3 months: angle for a couple weeks, rock for a month, austin for a month after the face turn, & trips for a couple weeks so far. none of these guys' reigns was significant. rock was just a lame duck champion till wrestlemania, angle's was a joke, austin didn't do jack with it after the turn...i guess it remains to be seen if trips can give it real meaning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Pidgerii-4q2 Report post Posted March 29, 2002 In recent times a first WWF title reign has appeared to be experimental, in that they try to gauge the public's reaction to the belt being on a different person's waist. I wouldn't read too much into Angle's first go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest X-Factor Corperation Report post Posted March 29, 2002 If you read Kurt Angle's book you'll see that the booking was intentional. Was it god.....No, but it did raise Kurt Angle to the main event and make his face run in the suymmer more impressive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted March 29, 2002 The ratings went down on his initial heel run, and in his face run the buyrates dipped into the .6's for two straight months last fall. Angle is a great wrestler but he can't draw, that is why people dog him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
