Best Junior of all time

[Guest The Rising Star]

I would like to know which wrestler is considered the best Junior of all time.

Edited June 30, 2003 by The Rising Star

[Guest wildpegasus]

Do you mean who's thought of highly overall or best overall? I'd say Liger, Tiger Mask and Dynamite Kid for being thought of highly overall in the history of juniorheavyweight wrestling.

[Guest Monday Night Jericho]

I'd say Liger followed by Ohtani (when he was a junior), Benoit and Guerrero in that order.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

<-------c'mon who else would I pick????

 

but here is my top 10 list;

 

1. Dynamite Kid

2. Tiger Mask

3. Jushin "Thunder" Lyger

4. Chris Benoit

5. Ohtani

6. Rey Mysterio Jr.

7. Eddy Guerrero

8. Great Sasuke

9. Ultimo Dragon

10. El Samurai

Edited June 23, 2003 by dynamite1980

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

I know next to nothing about Puro, but Ohtani doesn't even MAKE THE POLL?! good god man.

[Guest Dangerous A]

I went with Lyger. The other juniors mentioned are all very good to great, but Lyger has been the most consistent throughout the years and has put on more four and five star classics than the rest through his entire career.

 

In short, the best Junior of all time. I do think a lot of the stuff the juniors did was because of Tiger Mask and his series with Dynamite Kid, but Lyger went out and had awesome matches with a variety of people.

[Guest NoSelfWorth]

Lyger for consistancy and longevity.

[Guest Black Tiger]

WHO THE F**K is Eduardo Guerrero?

 

Kanemoto should also have been on there as well as Ohtani.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

No way Kanemoto or Otani should be on there. Especially Kanemoto. Otani had 1996-1997 as Hall of Fame years...Kanemoto has nothing.

 

Liger has 1985-present.

 

Benoit has 1990-1996 as a Junior.

 

Guerrero has 1993-1998 as a junior.

 

Tim

[Guest The Rising Star]

Kanemoto is a prick, basically. Ohtani was actually my 11th pick, El Samurai was my 12th pick, but there was only 10 spots.

I think Tiger Mask is SLIGHTLY better than Dynamite Kid.

Lyger comes in a extremely good 3rd place.

 

Is it because Tiger Mask wrote a disrespectful book about puroresu that people don't like him? Or the fact that he "retired" when he was in his 20's?

[Guest juvvy]

Ultimo Dragon

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

Kanemoto is a prick, basically. Ohtani was actually my 11th pick, El Samurai was my 12th pick, but there was only 10 spots.

I think Tiger Mask is SLIGHTLY better than Dynamite Kid.

Lyger comes in a extremely good 3rd place.

 

Is it because Tiger Mask wrote a disrespectful book about puroresu that people don't like him? Or the fact that he "retired" when he was in his 20's?

Uh no, Tiger Mask I was not slightly better than Dynamite Kid, because the Kid was the guy calling the damn shots in those matches.

 

And in comparison with the greats of the 90s(Lyger, Benoit), Tiger Mask and Dynamite Kid can't hold a canlde to them. Rather Kid or Tiger Mask influenced them or not is insignificant.

[Guest wildpegasus]

I think if Dynamite could have magically wrestled healthy with the juniors in the 90s everyone undobutably would be saying he's one of the best if not the best. The "2/3 falls" bout with Tiger Mask just may be my most rewatchable bout of all time.

 

Tiger Mask may not have been the best wrestler ever but he could just do things that will forever be awesome to watch.

[Guest two_tuff_toddy]

I would say Liger is the best mainly due to his longevity but Benoit from 1993-1996 to my favorite, and possibly best, time period for any junior.

[Guest Purehavok]

Lyger for consistancy and longevity.

^What he said, he's been not just one of the top juniors, but one of the wrestlers in the world for 10+ years.

 

...Kanemoto has nothing.

 

Thank you.

[Guest Rhysabusa]

Why isn't El Samurai even listed?

[Guest The Rising Star]

Hey, Black Tiger, you of all people should know that Eduardo Guerrero is Eddie Guerrero's real name.

 

Dynamite Kid might have called the shots, but Tiger Mask looked like he worked better.

 

And I've already explained that El Samurai was my 11th pick, but there were only 10 spots for the poll.

[Guest KanadianKrusty]

My pick is Lyger, the 4/30/92 match vs. Samurai totally sold me on him.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

Dynamite Kid might have called the shots, but Tiger Mask looked like he worked better.

Please explain how you can consider Tiger Mask the better worker when he was essentially being lead through his most acclaimed matches. I'm no expert on juniors wrestling in the 80s by no means, but even I can distinguish who the better worker was.

 

"I think if Dynamite could have magically wrestled healthy with the juniors in the 90s everyone undobutably would be saying he's one of the best if not the best. The "2/3 falls" bout with Tiger Mask just may be my most rewatchable bout of all time."

 

Until that magically happens, I'm forced to judge him on the work he actually did in this reality, which doesn't hold up very well against Lyger, Beniot, and Eddy's work in the 90s.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

C'mon, it's Lyger.

[Guest ConspiracyVictim]

I think we all need to give El Hijo Del Santo some credit. For all the great matches he has had in Mexico, namely TJ, he goes unrecognized by so many people who look down upon Lucha Libre. He has worked more consistently than anyone on this list (by that I mean probably more shoes seeing as how when working with AAA he would have to work two shows per day in different cities many times and he still works about every other day now) and from what I have seen he is one of the only Luchadores who always adds something to a match and never phones it in. He is the best Luchadore of our day and has been for the last 15 years or so, dating back to his classic '87 hair v. hair match with Casas. The guy definatley deserves to be watched more credit than he gets. Anyhow, I chose Lyger though Santo would be a close second on my list for basically being the Lyger of Mexico.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Quote Coffin Surfer

"...I'm forced to judge him on the work he actually did in this reality, which doesn't hold up very well against Lyger, Benoit, and Eddy's work in the 90's."

 

I think you're underestimating Dynamite here. Have you seen his Stampede work? Look at his work here against the Hart Brothers, Davey, Cobra and Royal. Even today, I don't see how Liger, Benoit or Eddy could have had such great matches against the same opponents.These weren't short little matches either as they often went quite a distance showing how good Dynamite was at keeping a bout great over a long period of time. Dynamite was even inventing stuff on the go. His"2/3" falls bout is a great example of his work that still holds up to any match out there. If it wasn't, Liger and El Samurai wouldn't be paying tribute to it in their super 92 match and noone would be talking about how great it is today but alas they still do. You have to remember that overall Dynamite didn't even have the same quality of opponents that Liger, Benoit and Eddy have had. He had to work with less and with less educated wrestlers as well. In proportion to what Dymamite worked with I can't see how he's not at least on the level of Liger, Benoit or Eddy.

[Guest Markingout]

TOP 5,IMO

 

Lyger

Dynamite

Black Tiger

Benoit

Sasuke

[Guest razazteca]

I think we all need to give El Hijo Del Santo some credit

El Santo gets my vote.

[Guest Black Tiger]

Hey, Black Tiger, you of all people should know that Eduardo Guerrero is Eddie Guerrero's real name.

If you want to go that route, then your poll should read like this.

 

Keich Yamada

Yoshihiro Asai

Satoru Sayama

Tom Billington

Oscar Gonzalez

Chris Benoit

Eduardo Guerrero

[Guest The Rising Star]

So you don't know that Great Sasuke's real name is Murakawa? Wow.

[Guest BAR]

Here's my top 5...

1. Dynamite Kid

2. Jushin Lyger

3. Chris Benoit

4. Shinjiro Ohtani

5. Great Sasuke

Edited August 6, 2003 by BAR

[Guest Indikator]

I voted for Liger because Dynamite Kid is not really a Junior Heavyweight Wrestler. Just as wildpegasus said DK was awesome in his Stampede days in which he outwrestled Bret Hart & Co - but that happened without highspots. DK was more a heavyweight wrestler. Therefore I voted for Liger

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

I think you're underestimating Dynamite here. Have you seen his Stampede work? Look at his work here against the Hart Brothers, Davey, Cobra and Royal. Even today, I don't see how Liger, Benoit or Eddy could have had such great matches against the same opponents.These weren't short little matches either as they often went quite a distance showing how good Dynamite was at keeping a bout great over a long period of time. Dynamite was even inventing stuff on the go. His"2/3" falls bout is a great example of his work that still holds up to any match out there. If it wasn't, Liger and El Samurai wouldn't be paying tribute to it in their super 92 match and noone would be talking about how great it is today but alas they still do. You have to remember that overall Dynamite didn't even have the same quality of opponents that Liger, Benoit and Eddy have had. He had to work with less and with less educated wrestlers as well. In proportion to what Dymamite worked with I can't see how he's not at least on the level of Liger, Benoit or Eddy.

I think your underestimating Lyger, Beniot, and Eddy. Do you really think that the only reason they produced more advanced matches was because they had a better quality of opponents than DK, this is not true at all. Or maybe it's because they simply pushed the junior style way beyond the boundaries that DK set(though it is debatable about just how much he really laid the groundwork down for).

 

I honestly don't see what the big deal was about the 2/3 falls match, it wasn't one of the greatest matches of the 80s, and it certainly isn't one of the greatest matches of all time.

 

Once again, Lyger/Samurai paying homage to it doesn't make the 2/3 falls a timeless classic that can hold it's own against the better matches of the 90s. Sasuke/Beniot pays homage to Cobra/DK yet that doesn't make DK/Cobra on the same level as Beniot/Sasuke, because it's obvious that it isn't.

[Guest wildpegasus]

"Do you really think that the only reason they produced more advanced matches was because they had a better quality of opponents than DK, this is not true at all?"

 

Absolutely not, but it does help them.

 

"I honestly don't see what the big deal was about the 2/3 falls match..."

 

Personally, this is why it works for me. First and foremost the crispness of the moves. This is a big thing for me in any match and these two bring that in large quantities.

The stiffness. I'm a mark for stiffness. I admit it and these guys destroyed each other in this bout. Oddly, on the other side of the coin I appreciate wrestlers who look like they can destroy each other while not doing it though.

 

There was a great story in this match. This bout turns out to be the final in their series and it tells a story from their previous bouts. The opponing moments in this match see Dynamite make an awesome counter and land on his feet. Perhaps my favorite spot of all time, this spot also says, "Tiger, I've finally caught up to you. I've learnt from our previous matches." In their previous matches Tiger would always get several moves in a row on Dynamite. However, not any more. They also built on the awesome german suplex spot which Dynamite countered by going to the outside of the ring. I know you know this but at the time in the 80's the german suplex was lethal, especially for Dynamite as Tiger Mask had pinned him at least a couple of times with it in previous bouts.

I also loved the raw enthusiasm from the crowd here as they knew they were watching something special and the neverending quest of Dynamite to finally beat the seemingly unbeatable Tiger Mask. When they restart the match and Tiger Mask is doing his dancing around the ring Dynamite is 100 percent in the zone. He wants to finally beat Tiger Mask more than anything. He attacks Tiger Mask immediatly with a kick and proceeds to do his lethal jumping piledriver and than goes with a flying headbutt to the back of Mask's neck further weaking it. Dynamite than blurts out "Victory" which is probably my favourite quote of all time in a wrestling ring. Anyway, this is the reasoning why I think it's one of the better matches out there.

 

There were a couple of things that I thought DK was better than most juniors as well. He was a better bumper and played a heel better than anyone. Once again, I go back to DK's Stampede work as to why he was so great. His ability at that time to have such great matches for a long period of time is what I found amazing. I just don't see Liger, Benoit or Eddy being able to do that to the level that Dynamite did. Is Dynamite better than these guys? That's hard to say but Dynamite's definitely on their level.