Court gives split decision on affirmative action

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

Narrow use of affirmative action preserved in college admissions

 

Very interesting, and kind of surprising to me that they didn't go the same way on both. Gratz v. Bollinger ends with the Court ruling against the University of Michigan undergrad point-based system for affirmative action, and Grutter v. Bollinger ends with the Court ruling for the Michigan Law School's narrower use of affirmative action. I've given Justice Rehnquist's dissenting opinion on Grutter v. a read. Quite compelling. Haven't gotten to the Court's opinion yet.

 

I'm glad the undergrad policy was struck down, and haven't fully formed my opinion on the law school one. I don't exactly know the particulars of that system yet. It seems to be a slighter system, as far as I can tell, but I'll need to get through the majority opinion to hash it all out.

Edited June 23, 2003 by Edwin MacPhisto

[Guest I'm That Damn Zzzzz]

So lawyers get to discriminate, while everyone else can't?

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

Well, the rulings on the companion cases basically means that an actual quantitative bonus for being of a minority race--like the undergrad program's point system--is too much like a quota and not allowed. Consideration of race is allowed to stay, but this should cut down on the extremity of the few systems like UM's undergrad.

[Guest I'm That Damn Zzzzz]

So discrimination is ok as long as you don't assign a fixed number of points to it???

 

(Confused...)

[Guest Powerplay]

So discrimination is ok as long as you don't assign a fixed number of points to it???

 

(Confused...)

Silly right-wing facist wacko, it's okay to discriminate, as long as it's against the majority. That way, nobody is hurt![/sarcasm]

 

Edit: Okay, I probably should have said something here. Anyways, I'm glad that one case was won, but I as well want to know the specifics of the Law School case. I'm very against AA because it basically works backwards, imo, but I'll explain that more if someone wants me to.

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

It's not that confusing, Zzzz.

 

The fact is that, yes, there are still disparities in the educational opportunities of minorities in America versus those of whites. I think I like this decision, though: the justices made very clear that they want affirmative action gone in 25 years. The Supreme Court does not think it's a permanent solution. As an upper middle-class white male who will probably stay that way most of his life, I certainly understand the potential dangers affirmative action could have for my future children if it stays in effect.

 

I don't like affirmative action, but I think that's what's necessary for the time being. You can't just pull the rug out from under the system immediately. The better approach would be baseline changes in education, i.e. putting funding into minority-heavy districts rather than just skimming a few individuals off the top and placing them at universities. I can be happy with the system dissolved in two decades, hopefully with some changes made in the process.

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

You can read all the decisions and dissents via a link to LawFinder in the article I posted, Judge. The law school case is much more cautionary than one might imagine on the surface.

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

Diversity Smiversity. I must have heard that word 100 times today on the news.

 

That undergrad point system was just wrong, and in the end it really won't matter because Big Academia will just find another way to promote the "D" word, which seems to leave out more conservative voices.

 

God I’m glad I don’t have to roam about in the cesspools that are America’s universities…

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Basically, the ruling said -- in my understanding, that is -- that race shouldn't be able to account for lesser qualifications, but in cases of equal qualification on every other ground, race is allowed to determine admission.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

The ruling said nothing at all. It struck down one instance of racism and added, "But don't let us stop you from coming up with new ways to incorporate racism into your policies." You can interpret that as you did, certainly. Or any other way. One of the most wishy-washy rulings ever to come out of the Court - not that anyone expected anything different.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

It's not like Bakke v. Regents of the University of California dealt with the issue any better...

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Right, which is why, after the amicus, I didn't bother to follow this case at all and could only barely muster enough interest to read a summary of the ruling.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Unless by some right wing miracle a hard-right Supreme Court justice is appointed and confirmed, I doubt we'll get a real decision on overturning either affirmative action or Roe v. Wade. The current court has repeatedly expressed -- vis a vis their opinions -- that they don't want to touch either of them.

[Guest Ripper]

Well, I'm happy enough. Thankfully the court looked at the FACTS instead of the "OMG, THEM BLACKS GET 20 POINTS...IT AIN'T FAIR" bullshit. Yes..20 points...on a 150 pt system...that made up about a .6% difference in thier admissions. Didn't even crack one percent.

 

Most people just wail on AA like it is costing millions of white students their placement in schools while it makes up 1.6% of a difference assuming that NONE of the black students would've gotten anyway.

 

Ethnic diveresity is very important. I think that it sets a bleak future when people are entering thier mid-20's and the only exposure to any race outside of thier own is Baby Boy on DVD and BET. College is about education and preparing for the real world. The real world has different colors of people. They are all the same people, but if you have never been exposed to them, you probably have some preconcieved notions about what a minority person will act like.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Well, I'm happy enough. Thankfully the court looked at the FACTS instead of the "OMG, THEM BLACKS GET 20 POINTS...IT AIN'T FAIR" bullshit. Yes..20 points...on a 150 pt system...that made up about a .6% difference in thier admissions. Didn't even crack one percent.

 

Most people just wail on AA like it is costing millions of white students their placement in schools while it makes up 1.6% of a difference assuming that NONE of the black students would've gotten anyway.

 

Ethnic diveresity is very important. I think that it sets a bleak future when people are entering thier mid-20's and the only exposure to any race outside of thier own is Baby Boy on DVD and BET. College is about education and preparing for the real world. The real world has different colors of people. They are all the same people, but if you have never been exposed to them, you probably have some preconcieved notions about what a minority person will act like.

Hmm, it barely impacts admissions?

 

Then why keep it?

 

Seems a little superfluous.

 

Don't you feel that blacks can compete equally?

-=Mike

...If the situation was reversed, you wouldn't be quite so understanding