just me bitching about Ultimates

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

so the new Ultimates consists of mostly full page pictures of airships and explosions, and like 40 panels that actually contain, you know, characters and dialouge.

 

Now I am a big fan of this book, but honestly, how could this issue have possibly taken so much time to make? Really?

 

I realize that if you haven't read it you might not be able to figure what the hell i'm talking about, and even if you have, you may just think i'm an asshat. All flames are appreciated. This was just bugging me.

[Guest starvenger]

To be honest, the lateness of the book is what made me drop it. Hitch has some top notch art, but I guess he's a veeeeeeeery sloooooooow penciller, and I guess that they don't want to have another artist do a fill-in. Which is great and all for creative integrity and blah blah blah, but doesn't help the bottom line when an issue comes out 4 times a year. Comic fans can be loyal, but have a title disappear and they'll find something else to spend their money on.

[Guest Steviekick]

I love Ultimates but it pisses me off that there is never a new issue out. It's one of Marvel's better titles and it has gotten lots of positive exposure, so you think that they would try to have it published regularly.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

it's not even the lateness that drove me nuts, it's that an issue that was heinously late ended up with entire pages of an explosion or aircraft! They could have done it in an hour.

 

HOW DID IT TAKE SO LONG!

 

urge to kill...fading.

[Guest starvenger]

it's not even the lateness that drove me nuts, it's that an issue that was heinously late ended up with entire pages of an explosion or aircraft! They could have done it in an hour.

 

HOW DID IT TAKE SO LONG!

The Marvel/Jemas/Millar spin: Hey, it takes time to create a quality explosion.

 

The artistic spin: It took a while for Hitch to find his muse.

 

The sarcastic spin: Bloody git was probably on a 3-month bender...

 

Fuck Bryan Hitch, get Ron Lim on this title STAT. That guy could crank out TWO titles a month, with great art to boot...

[Guest pochorenella]

Agreed on all sentiments here.

 

I'm an Ultimates fan.

 

I'm pissed by the lateness.

[Guest HellSpawn]

I jumped on the Ultimates train recently... only to jump OUT 2 issues later... that means I was an Ultimates fan for... what? 2 years

 

F'n Millar and Hitch.

 

 

Like "Smell the Ratings" said, it remind me of Jim Lee and his come back to the Wild Cats, they create a great Buzz about that, Oh Moore and Lee finally together... what we got?

 

8-10 F'n Pages of Lee, another 10 by Charest (another "artist") and a few of Pat Lee (or some unknown Lee). And they took like 3 months to get this $#!t out?

[Guest ShawnTybalt]

Ultimates isn't a good enough book to justify the horrible lateness.

 

Hitch used to be speedy. He and Millar are probably just getting drunk too much, but Marvel's afraid to can either one.

 

Ah well. I don't buy it anyhoo.

[Guest HellSpawn]

Ultimates isn't a good enough book to justify the horrible lateness.

 

Hitch used to be speedy.  He and Millar are probably just getting drunk too much, but Marvel's afraid to can either one.

Agreed in both points.

Your second point is interesting.

I think Marvel is afraid to fire this guys, because they are *Superstars*, *everyone* love this guys. Like Image at 92-94, in fact, it could be related to Liefeld stable, with all that late books and new names that draw and write $#!t but still sold like gold.

[Guest HHH123007]

I have the first 6 issues.....what number are they on now?

[Guest HellSpawn]

I believe #10 is the new one.

[Guest Luke Cage]

I bailed on Ultimates after the first five issues. I like Hitch's work, but he seems to be forgoing actual storytelling to indulge in glossy pinup art. If you have to sacrifice some of the background detail so the book can be published monthly, so be it. After all, the book is supposed to be read, not obsessed over for every little noodge lavished over each panel. Also, Millar's pacing would make Paul Thomas Anderson movies seem brisk in comparison. Some writers can create and destroy a universe in ten panels. I think Millar could turn drinking a cup of coffee into a 12 issue maxi series.

 

What I find curious is that some creators become very defensive when readers question why solicited books are so late. Some even attack their fanbase by calling them obsessive, fanboy, etc. etc. The mantra "It's worth wating for" has even been adopted by some fans. The dedication to the craft of creating a comic is almost gone, and that is a shame.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Millar made ME drop Ultimates, I know he was trying to differentiate his title from the original Marvels, but damn...

 

He took away Iron Man's best character trait... the fact that he needed his chestplate to live.

 

He destroyed the Hulk character

 

He made Thor a pussy

 

I still like Nick Fury and Cap though

 

The Pyms are boring

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

Greenpeace Thor kicks ass. And Stark has cancer of the something or other so that's kind of the same.

 

I agree on everything else though. I really liked the TPB. Why? Because I just happened to stumble upon it and really liked the story, art, characters etc.

 

Meanwhile the next 4 issues sucked because I had to read each one about 2 months apart. And this month's I read in about 3 minutes.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Greenpeace Thor kicks ass. And Stark has cancer of the something or other so that's kind of the same.

 

I agree on everything else though. I really liked the TPB. Why? Because I just happened to stumble upon it and really liked the story, art, characters etc.

 

Meanwhile the next 4 issues sucked because I had to read each one about 2 months apart. And this month's I read in about 3 minutes.

I'll grant you Thor, but...

 

The reason it was so cool, was because of the sacrifice of always having to wear that chestplate. It was symbolic that he could never be free of Iron Man in his life, that he had to make sacrifices, just like everyone else does.

[Guest Luke Cage]

Millar made ME drop Ultimates, I know he was trying to differentiate his title from the original Marvels, but damn...

 

He took away Iron Man's best character trait... the fact that he needed his chestplate to live.

 

He destroyed the Hulk character

 

He made Thor a pussy

 

I still like Nick Fury and Cap though

 

The Pyms are boring

My problem with the entire Ultimate line is that it shows a complete lack of faith in both modern creators and in readers.

Do they see comic readers as such corporate trained sheep that won't accept any "new" ideas? At least ideas that aren't warmed over "reimaginings" of forty year old concepts? Perhaps the thought is to give the readers something "new" while still catering to the hardcore comic fan's desire to be in the know. One of the most common threads I've come upon in discussion of these books is eager, almost electric anticipation of when familair concepts/story lines will be revisited, or "ultimized" as it were.

One almost wonders if Jim Shooter's "New Universe" would have been more successful if he had published "New Spider-Man" and "New Avengers" instead of the actual line. The characters featured in the NU were sometimes derivative, mostly bland (with my personal exception of D.P. 7...I thought it was one of the most underrated comics of the 80's), but at least they were "new" characters.

Millar, from his work on The Authority and then Ultimates seems to really dislike super hero comics, or at least super heros. The fact that he left out things that made the aforementioned characters more "heroic" surprises me not at all.

[Guest HellSpawn]

Luke Cage:

Millar, from his work on The Authority and then Ultimates seems to really dislike super hero comics, or at least super heros. The fact that he left out things that made the aforementioned characters more "heroic" surprises me not at all.

 

 

Agreed. This is something that really pi$$ed me off.

I mean, if they hate superhero books... then why write superhero stuff?

Why turn all into a depressing, dark, alternative stories?

 

And, not about Millar but some new age writers...

 

Why they think been Dark and Depressing is equal to been Cool or Ultimate (no pun intented) ?

[Guest Luke Cage]

Luke Cage:

Millar, from his work on The Authority and then Ultimates seems to really dislike super hero comics, or at least super heros. The fact that he left out things that made the aforementioned characters more "heroic" surprises me not at all.

 

 

Agreed. This is something that really pi$$ed me off.

I mean, if they hate superhero books... then why write superhero stuff?

Why turn all into a depressing, dark, alternative stories?

 

And, not about Millar but some new age writers...

 

Why they think been Dark and Depressing is equal to been Cool or Ultimate (no pun intented) ?

In my opinion, the current trend towards dark and depressing "heroes" can be traced back to one book.

Watchmen.

Alan Moore deconstructed the american super hero and he did it brilliantly. I've read it multiple times and I think it is amazing. But, would I want to read about these characters ( or characters like them) on a regular basis? Heck, no. Let's examine the characters from Watchmen. Just off the top of my head, the book featured a sexual dysfunctional who can only perform when in costume, a rapist/murderous psychopath, a sociopath with MPD, a character so powerful that he has become utterly amoral and someone willing to kill millions (partly) to satisfy his own ego.

 

And those were the heroes! Great characters, but nothing I want to follow for 100+ issues. And these types of characters have become more and more prevalant in comics since 1986. Now characters that are archetypical superheroes (Captain America & Superman come to mind) are considered corny.

 

Watchmen inspired many a writer to explore the darker side of the super hero phenomenon. I think they forgot one thing...reading about dark depressing people isn't fun. I think SH comics hould be fun, for the most part. I'm pretty sure that Mr. Moore's intention was to write a story, not create the template for the next 20 years of american super hero comics.

[Guest HellSpawn]

Agreed.

 

But there are some writers like Grant Morrison, who could be called a depressing or dark writer after been in Vertigo, and he got JLA and KICKED ASS.

 

He didnt wrote something like:

 

"Hey those F'n Martians, they are trying to F*** with Us, well, F*** That, Lets Kill those MF (including the curse words)".

 

Which other... oh yeah, Miller, I remember one interview or comment, I gues it was a comment on Blam! (Sin City's letters page), he said that he is called Depressing and something like that, but... He'll never, not in a million years will write Hal Jordan as a Pshyco Killer (Parallax).

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

It wasn't just "Watchmen" Luke. "The Dark Knight Returns" was the first time in YEARS that a comic book became a pop-culture phenom and that was very dark, indeed. Also, can't forget "Arkham Asylum" that was the most mind-blowing comics experience I had read up till that time.

 

You're also forgetting that crap like "The Punisher" "Ghost Rider" and "Spawn" was selling like crazy, so Mravel made ALL their heroes dark. (Even Spidey)

[Guest Luke Cage]

It wasn't just "Watchmen" Luke. "The Dark Knight Returns" was the first time in YEARS that a comic book became a pop-culture phenom and that was very dark, indeed.

 

Too true. What was supposed to be a story (A great one) became the blueprint for Batman comics over the last 15 + years.

 

You're also forgetting that crap like "The Punisher" "Ghost Rider" and "Spawn" was selling like crazy, so Mravel made ALL their heroes dark. (Even Spidey)

 

The aforementioned books/style changes came after Watchmen AFAIK. Watchmen was published in 1986.