My previous Misawa/Kawada thread

[Guest wildpegasus]

If anyone remembers I made a topic about Misawa/Kawada 94 a little while back thinking it was overrated somewhat. Well, after watching it again, I have to change my opinion. I acually underrated it. The problem was that I was getting mixed up somewhat with some other Misawa/Kawada bouts as I didn't have my tape at the time. I still don't think it was perfect-There was some overselling IMO once the match got through the beginning stages. It also lacked the intensity I thought was necessary for the match that Kawada finally wants to beat Misawa in (around the middle). Kawada's chops after lifting Misawa up looked weak as well as his patented kick in the face spot (but only after watching the exchanging forearm blows). Still, these are only minor quibbles in an otherwise super match. 4 3/4 stars!

[Guest Monday Night Jericho]

Its the best match that I have seen so far, I'd give it 5 stars with ease. I hear that some of the Dreamslam events were at a similar level though.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

I still don't think it was perfect-There was some overselling IMO once the match got through the beginning stages. It also lacked the intensity I thought was necessary for the match that Kawada finally wants to beat Misawa in (around the middle). Kawada's chops after lifting Misawa up looked weak as well as his patented kick in the face spot (but only after watching the exchanging forearm blows). Still, these are only minor quibbles in an otherwise super match. 4 3/4 stars!

Overselling?

 

Can you care to elobrate on this?

 

Lack of intensity?

 

Kawada venting up years of bulit up rage by ripping off Misawa's ear not intense enough. Or how about Kawada's big run where he has Misawa hurt, and for the first time in the entire match, breaks his compsure and shows his emotion, letting out the battle cry to the crowd and everything else. Or how about the final showdown at the end. Jesus Christ man, what more can you want?

 

Kawada's chops and Gamengiri weak?

 

What are we gonna get into the whole Taue's Nodowa argument again, where the moves don't look brutal enough to be credible or whatever. Bah, the hell with this nonsense. I wash my hands of this thread.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Overselling?

 

Misawa was too worn down midway through the match IMO for the amount of punishment he took.

 

Intensity

 

I didn't say the end of match was lacking in intensity (I meant blown up from cardiovascular type intensity) Coffin Surfer. I was talking about the middle of the bout where there's a neck hold put on and a one legged boston crab. They weren't cranking on these holds like they should be. I thought the pace could've been a touch faster here as well. (Just a small touch)

 

"Kawada's chops weak Gamengiri"

 

If you don't think Kawada's chops to the neck were bad when he picked up Misawa you're blind. They were and it looked bad.

 

I like the gamengiri. It's just that it looks weak when Kawada nails Misawa harder with forearms and he doesn't fall down. That's all.

 

"What more can you want?"

Don't get me wrong. I love this match. I've never given a match 5 stars in my life so 4 3/4 is not an insult. These are just minor quibbles I've picked out.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

"Misawa was too worn down midway through the match IMO for the amount of punishment he took."

 

I'm assuming this...you know what, I don't know what the hell your talking about here. Misawa's selling fit into the match perfectly, that's what counts. He put over the ass kicking he took in the beginning well, and did an excellent job of putting over Kawada's bombs.

 

"was talking about the middle of the bout where there's a neck hold put on and a one legged boston crab. They weren't cranking on these holds like they should be. I thought the pace could've been a touch faster here as well. "

 

This goes into the whole, your not looking at it for what it is, your looking at it for what you want it be, which isn't necessarliy the way it should be. The beginning of the match was suppose to have a quiet intensity to it, so when it did explode, it really fucking exploded.

 

"If you don't think Kawada's chops to the neck were bad when he picked up Misawa you're blind. They were and it looked bad."

 

They didn't look bad at all, you probably just don't like the rabid neck chops because your prefer stiffer action. They made contact, they were sold, they were over and credible strikes as evident in their previous tag match, so nothing wrong with it. This is the same as the stupid Taue Nodowa argument.

 

"I like the gamengiri. It's just that it looks weak when Kawada nails Misawa harder with forearms and he doesn't fall down. That's all."

 

More Taue Nodowa nonsense that makes my head hurt. Kawada's Gamengiri is an over finisher, his elbow strikes are not, so wouldn't agree the Gamengiri should be put over more than basic strikes. Rather you think it's not as bad ass looking as the elbows doesn't mean a thing, it's how the move was over and treated that matters.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Hey Coffin Surfer. I'm not trying to bring a debate about move credability but just out of curiosity how bad does a move have to be before you think it's not credible and ruins a match even if that particular move is over? There has to be a limit somewhere.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

Hey Coffin Surfer. I'm not trying to bring a debate about move credability but just out of curiosity how bad does a move have to be before you think it's not credible and ruins a match even if that particular move is over? There has to be a limit somewhere.

It is a debate of move credibility if your going to knock points off the match or what have you, because you think certain moves look weak and are oversold.

 

The rabid neck chops were certaintly not bad enough to ruin the match, and the Gamengiri is a thing of beauty. The neck chops were put over as threat to Misawa in a previous tag match, and the Gamengiri was one of the Kawada's finishers.

 

A move is only as good as it is sold and put over. You can have the most brutal move ever, but if it doesn't get put over, it's worthless.

 

Is their limit, yes, but that's where you cross the line into over selling a move that the fans don't buy as a threat. Such as maybe, having somebody do an out on their feet sell for an Atomic Drop which is where you get into goofiness even if the guy has used it a finisher, the fans still won't buy it. But it really depends on the enviroment, and how the moves are treated in that promtion.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

The weak strikes point is moot anyway. They beat the FUCK out of each other in that match.