Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 25, 2003 All right...I was watching this just a few moments ago and I started to wonder why doesn't this match get more play? It was an ****1/4 match in my mind that had great psychology I.E when one second Austin would pummel the shit outta Shawn and look down and put him in a headlock... Another bonus was at the start of match when the "CHALLENGED" indivual as Mr. Sensentive calls him broke the barrier and Shawn slipped outta the ring and start to talk to him and Austin attacks Shawn and beats him down a little and shawn rolls out and escorts the Little guy back stage and is mugging his ass off... Then to make it better the kid's mom or whatever comes DARTING down the aisle and walks away with him... Shawn shakes his head and Austin's siting there holding the ropes for shawn with a little smile... And they went and had a ****1/4 match... What's your thoughts on this forgotten gem? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest godthedog Report post Posted June 25, 2003 i don't understand the love for it at all, and i don't think austin & michaels had very good chemistry together. the chain wrestling especially went on farther into the match than it should have. it's like they started with a chain wrestling sequence, did a couple spots & tried to build from there, but couldn't think of any way to build it up so they went back to the chain wrestling; that happened over & over again. it's been a while since i've seen it, but i've watched it at least 3 or 4 times & that's been my general impression. i'll look over it again & add more detailed (or revised) thoughts later. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Askewniverse Report post Posted June 25, 2003 All right...I was watching this just a few moments ago and I started to wonder why doesn't this match get more play? I think that the finish may have something to do with it. Personally, I thought that this match was better than the WrestleMania XIV match. I didn't like the finish, but I can understand why they went with it. If I had to go with a star rating, I'd also give it ****1/4. While on the subject of KOTR '97, does anybody know what the finish was supposed to be for the originally scheduled Bret vs. HBK match? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Zack Malibu Report post Posted June 25, 2003 I was actually at that match live, and I agree, it's a great match that gets no love really. Askewniverse, I'm not sure what the planned finish for Bret/HBK was, but I want to say it was the plan that Bret had come up with for their rematch. They had a spot where Shawn would go for the chin music and "break his ankle" (they even though of using a gimmicked boot for this angle, with a snapping sound and everything) and then lock him in the Sharpshooter forcing him to give up. Bret talked about this in his shoot interview (which I have) and I'm pretty sure that was how it would have gone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 25, 2003 I believe that Bret initally wanted that for the WMXIII rematch that never happen... Here is a off-related question... If Shawn/Hart rematch had occured at Mania...Who was austin wrestling? Taker? Vader? Foley? Sid? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Stunt Granny Report post Posted June 25, 2003 He was supposed to wrestle Brian Pillman, but Pills wasn't ready by Mania. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 25, 2003 Since Austin was booked to win the WWF title at Final Four...was he booked to job it back to Hart neways? Amazing to think that if Austin hadn't injured his knee during that match how much wrestling history would've changed... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Zack Malibu Report post Posted June 25, 2003 The plan for the winner of the Final Four was for them to drop the belt the next night to Sid all along. If Austin won the belt, Hart would have most likely interfered and cost him the belt. I don't know how much history would have changed, however. They could have played up Hart costing the title as his bitterness/resentment getting the best of him, Austin could have still become the badass on a mission to get revenge and get the belt back. The dynamics might have been a little tweaked but history would more or less have stayed the same, IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 25, 2003 I was thinking along the lines that Austin/Hart was gonna headline Mania for the title... and that that McMahon wouldn't go for the Double turn then... WM13 *MADE* Austin Famous. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest godthedog Report post Posted June 25, 2003 at least according to my SK info, nothing would've changed. the plan all along was for the winner to drop the title to sid the next night. i don't think austin was considered quite ready for a semi-major title reign. which worked out better in the end anyway. they were still building austin up, and why waste his first title win on a nothing ppv just to drop it the next night? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 25, 2003 I agree...completely...I was just saying history would've changed in some ways... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Askewniverse Report post Posted June 25, 2003 Askewniverse, I'm not sure what the planned finish for Bret/HBK was, but I want to say it was the plan that Bret had come up with for their rematch. They had a spot where Shawn would go for the chin music and "break his ankle" (they even though of using a gimmicked boot for this angle, with a snapping sound and everything) and then lock him in the Sharpshooter forcing him to give up. Bret talked about this in his shoot interview (which I have) and I'm pretty sure that was how it would have gone. I think that's what Bret wanted for WM 13, as Choken said. Thanks anyway, Zack. Now that I think about it, Bret had to have won the KOTR match if it had taken place, considering the stipulations involved. However, I can't figure out how Vince would have convinced Shawn to job to Bret in 10 minutes. I think that Choken One may have a point about how history may have changed. Would Austin vs. McMahon still have happened if Austin had already been the WWF Champion? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Zack Malibu Report post Posted June 25, 2003 I think that Choken One may have a point about how history may have changed. Would Austin vs. McMahon still have happened if Austin had already been the WWF Champion? I'd say so. They could have worked some type of "blackmail" storyline, or something where Vince, in full Mr. McMahon mode, started claiming that Austin's only way back to the belt would be to do his bidding, etc. Then have Austin refuse like the rebel he is/was, do it on his own, win the title (despite McMahon trying to prevent the inevitable) and then go on to feud with Vince and his minions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Askewniverse Report post Posted June 25, 2003 That's a good point. I just figured that Austin probably wouldn't have been given the IC title, since it would seem to be a step down if he had already won the WWF title. I always thought that Austin's feud with McMahon really started over Austin's frustration after being stripped of the IC title. No IC title to be stripped of = no frustration over Vince = no Stunner at MSG = no retaliation by Vince. Then again, I'm only going by the events of what actually happened. There could easily have been another scenario to start the Austin vs. McMahon feud. It would have been interesting to see how Bret would have fit into an Austin vs. McMahon feud if he had stayed. I think that WM XIV would have happened the way that it did, just with Bret in HBK's place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 26, 2003 If Bret stayed...I wonder how the Tyson thing would've worked out... Tyson in my mind was the one that got WWF back in the mainstream... If it was Bret/Austin...It would've not been as good as it was...(the angle and build up)... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cawthon777 0 Report post Posted June 26, 2003 HBK vs. Austin was a step down from what we should have seen which was Bret vs. HBK and Austin vs. Pillman. It didn't make me interested at all in the PPV since the outcome was pretty obvious from the get-go. The match meant nothing and even HBK referred to it as being basically a clusterfuck on his shoot interview. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DarkHollywood Report post Posted June 26, 2003 I Didn't follow too much 1997, so a few Questions... Why were Austin/HBK scheduled to fight on KOTR in storylines? I Know they won the tag titles a few weeks before that...and thats all I can remember. And when was the Bret/HBK backstage brawl thats reffered to a lot? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Fook_Hing_Ho Report post Posted June 26, 2003 They were fighting because they were the Wacky Tag Team Partners Who Hate Each Other (TM Vince Russo). The Bret/HBK backstage fight was a few weeks prior to this. Michaels was actually supposed to face Bret at KOTR, but because of the fight, it was changed to HBK fighting Austin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest papacita Report post Posted June 26, 2003 No, actually the fight happened the next night at Raw. I think the match was changed because Bret's knee injury didn't heel soon enough. The actual storyline going into the match was that Austin injured Bret the night he and Shawn won the belts, and because Shawn and Austin hated each other, Pillman "graciously" decided to back out of his KOTR match with Austin to let Michaels take his place. The night after KOTR, Bret and Michaels had their brawl, Michaels briefly quit the WWF, and they ended up having a tag title tournament, where the winners would meet Austin and a partner of his choice, who ended up being Dude Love. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Askewniverse Report post Posted June 26, 2003 It's kind of funny that HBK went off to find his smile because he didn't want to lose to Bret at WM, and when he came back, he went off to find his teeth, which was also because of Bret. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Zack Malibu Report post Posted June 26, 2003 It's kind of funny that HBK went off to find his smile because he didn't want to lose to Bret at WM, and when he came back, he went off to find his teeth, which was also because of Bret. HA! Classic shit man, good one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cawthon777 0 Report post Posted June 26, 2003 Maybe it was just because I was a big Hollywood Blondes fan but I'm still bitter we never got Austin vs. Pillman in the WWF. It was scraped from KOTR since the Harts wanted HBK and Austin to beat the snot out of each other and it was scraped from the day after KOTR, with Mankind subbing for Austin against Pillman. I don't think Austin was credited with hurting Bret in Evansville when he and HBK won the tag belts. True, he did jump him but Bret was already hurt and a few punches to the head couldn't have done much damage. Storyline-wise, I believe the Harts saw how much tension was brewing between Austin and Micheals (ex: the night they won the tag belts, Austin jumps Bret on the ramp instead of coming to HBK's aid against the rest of the Hart Foundation in the ring) and thus they prefered to have the two beat each other up instead of having to do it themselves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest papacita Report post Posted June 27, 2003 I don't think Austin was credited with hurting Bret in Evansville when he and HBK won the tag belts. True, he did jump him but Bret was already hurt and a few punches to the head couldn't have done much damage. I'm pretty sure Bret said Austin re-damaged is knee in the attack. If you remember, the week after the Evansville tag match, they did a split screen segment with Michaels and Austin from different dressing rooms, and Michaels was angry at Austin for robbing him of the chance to rid the U.S. of Bret Hart (the stipulation for the original Michaels/Hart match was that if Bret couldn't beat Shawn in 10 minutes, he'd never wrestle in the United States again). Austin had some words for Shawn, Shawn headed over to his locker room, the two had to be separated by officials, and that was when Pillman and Bret decided it would be best if they let those two destroy each other. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cawthon777 0 Report post Posted June 27, 2003 Very true, I stand corrected. I think the ME of that Raw had Austin & HBK vs. the LOD ... I could have sworn we'd see a title change ... nope ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Askewniverse Report post Posted June 27, 2003 Cawthon, Austin and Pillman did have a one-on-one match in the WWF, on an episode of Raw. I have the match, and it's even listed on your site: WWF @ Lake Placid, NY - June 16, 1997 Raw is War: Steve Austin defeated Brian Pillman via disqualification when Owen Hart, Jim Neidhart, and the British Bulldog - who were all handcuffed to seperate ring posts - escaped and attacked Austin; after the bout, Mankind, Goldust, and Ken Shamrock made the save; Austin and Shamrock began brawling until the Legion of Doom seperated the two men and Goldust suggested all five men team up to face the Hart Foundation at Canadian Stampede (Best of Raw Vol. 6). I think that Austin was indeed credited for Bret's injury. I have an episode of Raw from around that time period where Austin tackles Bret (who was on crutches) on the ramp, and repeatedly punches Bret in the leg. Jim Neidhart made his surprise return moments later to help Bret. Bret then hit Austin with the crutch, sending him off the ramp and to the floor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cawthon777 0 Report post Posted June 27, 2003 Hmmm ... *needs to re-memorize everything on my site* lol Interesting that they had Austin-Pillman with the same stipulations that Bret-HBK were supposed to fight under at the KOTR (Harts handcuffed to ringposts). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bravesfan Report post Posted June 27, 2003 That's a good point. I just figured that Austin probably wouldn't have been given the IC title, since it would seem to be a step down if he had already won the WWF title. I always thought that Austin's feud with McMahon really started over Austin's frustration after being stripped of the IC title. No IC title to be stripped of = no frustration over Vince = no Stunner at MSG = no retaliation by Vince. Austin was stripped of THREE titles (the tag title, and the IC title twice). His frustration wasn't over the fact that he lost the title he coveted, but over the fact that he never lost it IN THE RING. A world title reign at the Final Four PPV would not've mattered in the grand scheme of ruining things at Mania XIV, except for JR's proverbial orgasms for Austin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Askewniverse Report post Posted June 27, 2003 Austin was stripped of THREE titles (the tag title, and the IC title twice). His frustration wasn't over the fact that he lost the title he coveted, but over the fact that he never lost it IN THE RING. A world title reign at the Final Four PPV would not've mattered in the grand scheme of ruining things at Mania XIV, except for JR's proverbial orgasms for Austin. That's kind of what I meant. If Austin hadn't been given the IC title, there would be no title to strip him of. If Austin had already been the WWF champion, he probably would have been feuding with Bret or Taker over that title instead of Owen for the IC title. Austin wasn't frustrated over being stripped of his 2nd IC title. He voluntarily gave it up to go after the WWF title, which he had never won. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest John Dub Report post Posted June 28, 2003 Am I crazy, or did a handicapped child come to the ringside area in the middle of the match and they helped him back? I haven't seen the match, but I've heard this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest papacita Report post Posted June 28, 2003 Am I crazy, or did a handicapped child come to the ringside area in the middle of the match and they helped him back? I haven't seen the match, but I've heard this. He was sitting at ringside and fell (or jumped...I'm not totally sure) over the guardrail and had to be helped to the back. CO already covered this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
