Strom Thurmand is dead

[Guest Midnight Express83]

It is sad that a person died and Rest In Peace.

 

That is the ONLY nice thing I can say about the man. Fuck politics, he wanted segregation and black people to be third class citizens. And from a family that doesn't like the people who wanted to keep that as a rule. Fuck Strom. Fuck his views. And his old ass should have retired before Nixon came president. He is just a sad fucking joke. Glad that we don't have a waste of tax money around.

[Guest HartFan86]

It is sad that a person died and Rest In Peace.

 

That is the ONLY nice thing I can say about the man. Fuck politics, he wanted segregation and black people to be third class citizens. And from a family that doesn't like the people who wanted to keep that as a rule. Fuck Strom. Fuck his views. And his old ass should have retired before Nixon came president. He is just a sad fucking joke. Glad that we don't have a waste of tax money around.

Agreed totally.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Marney where do you work?

I'm curious about that myself. Didn't you say you worked in Public Relations, Marney?

Nope.

[Guest MrRant]

I thought she was a goverment spook... but then... only the Shadow knows!

 

WHOOSH~!

[Guest ant_7000]

Well, I won't miss him.

[Guest G. HOOD]

I pissed on Strom Thurmond Memorial Highway in GA to mourn him. Burn, byotch, burn.

Edited June 28, 2003 by G. HOOD

[Guest KingOfOldSchool]

Not to sound mean spirited, but it's sad when a person dies of cancer, in a plane crash or war or something. Thurmond was 100 and actually led a full life, accomplishing plenty. Nothing to be sad about there, and let's face it, he was probably a couple years away from having his family do everything for him, if they weren't already.

 

Though, the really sad thing here, is that he was in office for so long, up until he was in such a decrepit and feeble state, incapable of offering anything worthwhile to his position.

 

So, yeah, sorry if I can't even say so much as RIP, considering that for so many years, he represented what was wrong with the country.

[Guest cynicalprofit]

no, if only jesse helms would commit suicide.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Not to sound mean spirited, but it's sad when a person dies of cancer, in a plane crash or war or something. Thurmond was 100 and actually led a full life, accomplishing plenty. Nothing to be sad about there, and let's face it, he was probably a couple years away from having his family do everything for him, if they weren't already.

 

Though, the really sad thing here, is that he was in office for so long, up until he was in such a decrepit and feeble state, incapable of offering anything worthwhile to his position.

 

So, yeah, sorry if I can't even say so much as RIP, considering that for so many years, he represented what was wrong with the country.

OK, as somebody who voted for Strom, I'll tell y'all something:

 

We KNEW he was incompetent. Not exactly a shocker. He looked likehewas dead.

 

HOWEVER, his STAFF was the greatest. You needed ANYTHING and they'd always deliver. People voted for the STAFF --- not for Thurmond.

 

Did he have skeletons in his past? Absolutely. He was a total racist.

 

But he changed --- likely more than, say, Robert Byrd.

 

He had his faults, but he DID try to change. And, yes, he should've stepped down sooner and named a worthy successor (though the obvious choice, former Governor Carroll Campbell, would've ended up being a bad choice since he has been afflicted with Alzheimer's at a rather young age (40's)) --- but that's another issue

-=Mike

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Daily Kos had a really decent refutation to your claim, Mike, that he actually changed.

 

CNN had an interesting ceremony on Saturday.

 

It seems that Maynard Jackson, Atlanta's first black mayor, died quietly, with little fanfare or notice on Monday. Everyone seems to have missed it, the news, the blogs, but CNN had his memorial service on.

 

All of Georgia's politicians, as well as Bill Clinton, was there. And they said nice things about him. I sat there and said to myself "another sop to local politics. Why the hell is his memorial on national TV?"

 

But then I realized that it was a fitting thing to be on TV after this week. I know the harried moms. hung over single guys and lazy Saturday sex partners watching the ceremony probably didn't think much about it, but it was a pefect coda in a week that saw two notorious segregationists die and two landmark decisions on rights come from the Supreme Court.

 

I think Gwen Ifill summed up Thurmond's career best, noting his segregationist past and his vote for the King holiday. She did it at the end of Washington Week in Review, mainly so her white collegues would be unable to say nice things about an evil man who turned to pragmatism as a way of political survival. I would think Ifill, like most blacks, had few kind words for Thurmond, alive or dead.

 

Thurmond wasn't evil because he was a racist, but because he was a pragmatist. When the segs ruled the land, he sided with them. He consorted with murderers and terrorists to gain votes in a desperate bid for national office so disgraceful it was mostly forgotten in the last 30 years of his life. This, despite having a black daughter he didn't mention for 60 years.

 

When that train crashed and burned, despite his best efforts, he decided to serve his black constituents. Not because he had a change of heart, but because he realized he had to keep his job. So he opened doors for them, not out of kindness, but because of the same pragmatism he showed when he ignored their suffering and denied his own child.

 

Unlike the virulent racist, Lester Maddox, Thurmond was able to do what it took to stay in power, so to condemn him for a life of evil would be wrong, since only 60 percent of his life was in the service of evil. We need only note that his world died long before he did and he adapted to new times.

 

His world ended when men like Maynard Jackson could become mayor of Atlanta. No one had to qualify their praise, minimize his acts or pretend he was a different man than he was. Jackson, like so many from that era, represented the best of what America could be.

 

We are a different world than the one Jackson entered in, and it was because he sought to change that world, that we live in it, with scant help from the Thurmonds of the world, who turned their back on a war waged on school girls and the unarmed.

 

It was this world that the Supreme Court addressed last week. Affirmative Action remains to redress the past. Sandra Day O'Connor's prediction that we will not need Affirmative Action in 25 years was no optimist's hope or firm deadline. It was the recognition that we live in a world where race means less and less. Interracial marriage grows each year, with less concern from the public. Hollywood has made Halle Berry as desirable as Cameron Diaz or Lucy Liu and we are so used to images of beauty being based on looks, race, once predominant, fades into the background.

 

O'Connor was looking ahead to a world where class and education would matter more than race.

 

Later on in the day, I caught the Michael Savage show. He was railing against immigrants and I was wondering, what was he afraid of. Mexican immigrants?

This is a man with the best education one can get in America. He has a doctorate from Berkeley, he's rich, he's successful. What could some poor Mexican immigrant take from him? Why does he fear people who can cause him no harm. take nothing from him.

 

The whole lot of them, Coulter, Scarborough, O'Reilly. What are they afraid of? What can happen to them if the world doesn't go their way? Nothing. Coulter has a Cornell degree for God's sake. O'Reilly did graduate work at Harvard. What are they afraid of? They've made it and no one is seeking to take anything from them. Yet, they cower in fear like scared rabbits, jabbering as some new threat, defending the indefensible.

 

Nowhere was this fear seen more clearly than in Antonin Scalia's shameful dissent from the bench this week. His rantings about "the homosexual agenda" was out of the worst gay bashing propaganda of the 1950's. What homosexual agenda? The right to marry and protect their assets and relationships? That's an agenda? Scalia sounded small and weak as he ranted against the basic right of people to choose their partners and live their lives as they saw fit.

 

It's sex. People make goofy faces. Whom you sleep with should not control your future to the point where you can lose a home or job. Scalia's fear-based rejection of that will define him as much as Strom Thurmond's life was defined by race hate and terrorism.

 

Americans want a fair country, not one where the rights of others are at the whim of other people. Just as a fear-based concept of race died in 1964, despite the best efforts of men like Thurmond and Maddox, the fear-based concept of sex died last week in the Supreme Court. Those who try to reverse it will meet the fate of Thurmond and others who served evil for their own ends.

 

Obviously, it's a liberal blog. However, I believe the point is more than correct. Thurmond only changed so that he could stay in power; there's nothing to suggest that he actually changed his ways.

 

I'm not exactly a fan of Byrd myself, either, but then again... two wrongs don't make a right.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Obviously, it's a liberal blog. However, I believe the point is more than correct. Thurmond only changed so that he could stay in power; there's nothing to suggest that he actually changed his ways.

 

I'm not exactly a fan of Byrd myself, either, but then again... two wrongs don't make a right.

The blog was ridiculous. To call it the meanderings of a dolt is to insult dolts the world over. Heck, I don't even LIKE Strom that much but I'll defend him against this absurd pile of crap from an author with neither the ability nor the intellect to do ANYTHING worthwhile at any moment of his/her miserable, bitter life.

 

When the "rules" were changed, Strom did what he SHOULD have done:

 

He ACCEPTED it.

 

He hired black staffers. He provided terrific service for black constituents.

 

Whether he LIKED the decision is, honestly, immaterial. He LIVED by it. He did not complain, he did not bitch, he did not moan. He followed the law explicitly and didn't make a big deal out of it. James Brown likes the guy and he isn't exactly quiet about race issues. He CHANGED completely and, unlike MOST people, didn't feel the need to draw attention to it.

 

Quite frankly, what the HELL did the insipid writer of this bilge that you should be embarrassed to post here WANT? Strom did the HONORABLE thing --- he followed the law and did it FAR better than, say, Al Gore Sr., Fulbright, or any of the pantheon of "liberal" greats. He fought against integration, but sided with it when it became the law of the land. He was wrong, his side lost, and he accepted it graciously as possible. Hell, Clinton, in his own words, IDOLIZED Fulbright. Why is it OK for HIM to ADMIRE an unmitigated, unrepentant racist but it's not OK for a racist to simply shut his mouth and follow the law?

 

Ms. Ifill simply demonstrates the bias in the media that you wish to claim does not exist. Thank God I don't have to see her any longer.

 

The borderline glee that she and this author display in Strom's death is offensive --- but I expect little else from the left.

-=Mike

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

I know he tried to amends near the end of his life, but that simply does not matter when he was intentionally trying to keep black people oppressed. I will say the same thing when Byrd dies, too.

 

Also, I noticed CNN.com gave him the same memorial page layout they had for their fake obits of Reagan and others.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

I know he tried to amends near the end of his life, but that simply does not matter when he was intentionally trying to keep black people oppressed. I will say the same thing when Byrd dies, too.

 

Also, I noticed CNN.com gave him the same memorial page layout they had for their fake obits of Reagan and others.

So, a man is INCAPABLE of being redeemed? A man cannot POSSIBLY change and abide by laws?

 

What Strom BELIEVED or liked is absolutely irrelevant. What he DID from the moment segregation ended IS important and NOBODY can say that he treated blacks and differently than whites from that point on.

 

The "rules" changed for Strom during his life and, to his credit, he changed with them. He had treated black equally amongst his constituents and staffers from basically the moment segregation was outlawed (don't think for a moment that if he DID treat blacks unfairly, he would've gotten away with it).

 

That, to me, deserves a lot of respect. He did something he might not have agreed with without complaints. How many people in history have EVER done that?

-=Mike

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Fuck racism. Fuck redemption and fuck beliefs. I don't care what he believed over half a century ago; Strom Thurmond was still a ridiculous waste of skin. Electing someone's staff is simply absurd; vote for someone who actually has a functional brain in his goddamn skull rather than decaying organic slime. If his staff was so goddamn good his replacement would keep them on. It's a seat in the goddamn Senate, not a nursing home for the mentally incapacitated or an embalmer's workstation. I don't think anyone with a real job should have to waste his time leading a corpse around by the nose or wiping its ass because of people like you. Whatever he stood for, whatever he accomplished or didn't accomplish before he became the senile rotting old joke he was in his final years - all of that is irrelevant. He will be remembered as a joke. A sad, sad joke. Why? Because of the idiots who kept re-electing him long after he ceased to be anything but a pathetic semi-ambulatory remnant of a human being. His mere presence in the Senate was unbelievably embarrassing. I didn't like the guy one bit and yet I still felt sorry for him. It was bloody painful to watch his broken mind trying to work sometimes. If you had any respect for him you should've just let him die.

 

Christ. If you don't understand the concept of human dignity you should at least show some token respect for how the system's supposed to work.

Edited June 30, 2003 by Cancer Marney

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

So, a man is INCAPABLE of being redeemed? A man cannot POSSIBLY change and abide by laws?

 

What Strom BELIEVED or liked is absolutely irrelevant. What he DID from the moment segregation ended IS important and NOBODY can say that he treated blacks and differently than whites from that point on.

I'm looking at the amount of people he helped compared to the amount of people he hurt. You are free to see it differently, of course.

 

The "rules" changed for Strom during his life and, to his credit, he changed with them.

 

The rules were already changed for the most part. A civil war was fought and the North won before he was even born. We should have stopped treating black people like second-class citizens from that moment on.

 

 

EDIT: Marney, wow. I thought he was hanging around for the longest time just to keep numbers in the GOP's favor. Admittedly, his usefulness in that position disappeared years ago, but still...

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Fuck racism. Fuck redemption and fuck beliefs. I don't care what he believed over half a century ago; Strom Thurmond was still a ridiculous waste of skin. Electing someone's staff is simply absurd; vote for someone who actually has a functional brain in his goddamn skull rather than decaying organic slime. If his staff was so goddamn good his replacement would keep them on. It's a seat in the goddamn Senate, not a nursing home for the mentally incapacitated or an embalmer's workstation. I don't think my staff should have to waste their time wiping a corpse's ass because of people like you. At least show some token respect for how the system's supposed to work.

If you saw the motley crew of incompetent boobs the Democrats ran against Strom, you'd understand why he won all of the time. He was actually MORE capable than his opponents, even in '94 when he last won election (heck, I can't even REMEMBER his last opponent). Respect the system and how it's "supposed" to work? I did just that.

 

I voted for the best option of the two candidates.

 

Sadly, that option was Strom.

 

True, he might have been on death's door and shouldn't have run (a criticism I also hold for FDR in '44), but Jesus, could the Dems have run a guy with a pulse?

 

I may be a conservative, but I would have voted against him I'm HARDLY a Strom fan) if the Dems ran ANYBODY capable of doing ANYTHING. When Fritz Hollings is their best candidate for ANY office in this state --- which he probably STILL is --- you see how utterly inept the state Democratic party is.

 

Strom should have stepped aside and helped the state GOP get somebody else there --- but since he was STILL the better alternative in his selected races (no GOP member would run against him, obviously, since he basically STARTED the darned thing), you have to go with the best of the possible alternatives.

-=Mike

...Of course, starting tomorrow, I will no longer be living in this state and will reside in another state with inept politiciand.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

So, a man is INCAPABLE of being redeemed? A man cannot POSSIBLY change and abide by laws?

 

What Strom BELIEVED or liked is absolutely irrelevant. What he DID from the moment segregation ended IS important and NOBODY can say that he treated blacks and differently than whites from that point on.

I'm looking at the amount of people he helped compared to the amount of people he hurt. You are free to see it differently, of course.

 

The "rules" changed for Strom during his life and, to his credit, he changed with them.

 

The rules were already changed for the most part. A civil war was fought and the North won before he was even born. We should have stopped treating black people like second-class citizens from that moment on.

 

 

EDIT: Marney, wow. I thought he was hanging around for the longest time just to keep numbers in the GOP's favor. Admittedly, his usefulness in that position disappeared years ago, but still...

He had his beliefs. When his beliefs ceased being legal, he changed his actions. He likely did more to help integration than most anybody else. He was a VERY powerful, deep Southern Senator who WENT ALONG with the change in laws and did so quietly. He didn't fight it or make long diatribes and harangues about it --- he simply changed.

 

Let's not BEGIN to pretend that the country treated blacks fairly after the Civil War. The North was EQUALLY as bad about it as the South. When that FINALLY ended, Strom went along with the changes.

 

What we SHOULD have done is irrelevant. We did not do so at the time. Things changed finally and he subsequently changed.

 

Numerous judges opposed abortion before Roe v Wade. How many have ruled AGAINST abortion since?

 

Whether you LIKE a change or not, it shows character to abide by the law of the land --- provided the law isn't clearly unfair.

-=Mike

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Respect the system and how it's "supposed" to work? I did just that.

 

I voted for the best option of the two candidates.

 

Sadly, that option was Strom.

Fair enough. Sorry for going off like that at you, Mike. It was just terrible to see any human being reduced to that state, especially in a place like the United States Senate. Being forced to deal with the inevitable problems his decrepitude caused (even if only occasionally) made it worse.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

forced to deal with the inevitable problems his decrepitude caused (even if only occasionally) made it worse.

Did you draw the short straw in the "Who gets to bathe Strom this week?" pull or something?

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Respect the system and how it's "supposed" to work? I did just that.

 

I voted for the best option of the two candidates.

 

Sadly, that option was Strom.

Fair enough. Sorry for going off like that at you, Mike. It was just terrible to see any human being reduced to that state, especially in a place like the United States Senate. Being forced to deal with the inevitable problems his decrepitude caused (even if only occasionally) made it worse.

Why do you think I won't do any work for the state GOP? Because they refused to take him aside (BTW, I've met him more than once and while he can't speak, I think his rather bad body funk speaks volumes -- I'm just glad I'm not a woman as I understand he's REALLY "grabby" with women) and tell him that they need him to throw whatever support he can towards another candidate.

 

Just to give you an idea of how bad he was: He didn't actually utter a single word in his 1994 campaign outside of saying that his committee paid for his spots. He didn't speak in his ads (nor did they tout his achievments), wouldn't do interviews, and made almost no public appearances. Heck, he has lived in a hospital ever since he left office --- and was living in one for a nice chunk of the ending of his term.

 

The state had other conservatives who could have done a good job (Campbell before he got Alzheimer's; former Governor Beasley -- OK, scratch that) but this state's borderline asinine worship of "icons" is a bit much. I mean, yes, he founded the party (almost literally), but that was 50 years ago roughly.

 

I don't think the man had a single debate since the 1970's. The press here ran stories asking if he would SURVIVE his final term.

 

And the Dems STILL couldn't find anybody competent enough to face him. Hell, I would have voted for Alex Sanders (who opposed Lindsay Graham (another dufus) for Strom's seat in 2000) over Thurmond.

 

But, Lindsay has that seat until probably 2048 at the earliest.

=Mike

[Guest DrTom]

Strom Thurmond is the best possible argument for term limits in the Senate that one could make. All someone has to do is show a picture of him in his last few years in the Senate, or play a tape of him trying to speak his last day on the job, to support their position.

 

"Think fossils are best left underground? Support terms limits." It's easy.

 

And Mike, if you do end up departing this place, best of luck to you.

[Guest Crazy Dan]

Strom Thurmand and Jessie Helms are two big reasons why there should be term limits for Senators. May Thurmand rest in peace, but he to me represents all that was wrong with this country many years ago. It is good to hear that he did change, but at the same time I don't vote for a candidate based on the staff that they have. Also, that is sad when the best candidate you have is an old fossil who is breaking down in front of your eyes.

 

But, he did live to be 100, so that is impressive, but he should have retired many years ago.

 

And yes I do think fossils such as Ted Kennedy should also step down as well. I think two terms in the Senate are plenty.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

forced to deal with the inevitable problems his decrepitude caused (even if only occasionally) made it worse.

Did you draw the short straw in the "Who gets to bathe Strom this week?" pull or something?

Jesus God, that's such a horrific thought it's not even funny.

[Guest Ripper]

They spent the entire weekend here in Georgia trying to sell how much of a 'change' Lester Maddox made after segregation was shot down. Bottomline is that they were both racist men who 'changed' with the law because they wanted to save their own ass and their political futures. Same went for Wallace and every other polition that stood up and shouted to anyone that would hear them that segregation was the way to go. Their beliefs didn't change at all. And I am not about to sit here and applaud. If they had stood steadfast to their beliefs, then I would have a lot more respect. You don't have to like every race to be a good leader, but the backpedaling that they did is nothing "honorable".

[Guest Crucifixio Jones]

Strom living to be 100 is just more proof that God is also a white racist.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Hey Mike where you moving too.