CALLING TIM COOKE! - London vs Dragon 12/07/200

[Guest Pegasus Kid]

I just finished watching the match. I really enjoyed it but I didn't think it was a MOTYC and I honestly didn't even think it was ****. I know you're a big pimp for this match so I was hoping to get your thoughts on it before I re-watch the show to get some different perspective. Anyone else that has seen this match and want to explain why they love it are more than welcome to do so.

[Guest bob_barron]

If it makes you feel better Justin-

 

Paul London in an interview said that he didn't think the match was all that either

[Guest ShooterJay]

Personally, I don't see the appeal either- it was kind of a slow match, something I'm not used to seeing from London.

 

I think it's mainly because it's the most "realistic" a pro wrestling match can be. Both guys worked for their holds, and struggled to escape. The selling was kept consistent the whole match, probably the best I've ever seen. London does a great job of keeping the viewer emotionally invested- even my brother, who HATES long matches, kept watching.

 

Plus the crowd was NUKED- never heard heat like that at an indy show.

[Placebo Effect 0]

I ws there live. I also had no idea why everyone thought it was *****, but I did think it was *** 3/4. If not for the hot crowd, most people would be rating it in the ***-**** range.

[Guest Nevermortal]

Are you sure he pimps the Dec. 7th match? All I've seen him pimp of London/Dragon was the 4/12 match.

[Guest bob_barron]

Yea- Tim has pimped 12.7 London v. Dragon before

 

EDIT: Tim Cooke Posted: Dec 31 2002, 12:57 PM

 

 

 

Smackdown!

 

 

Group: Members

Posts: 774

Member No.: 170

Joined: 2-February 02

 

 

 

Lo Ki is an average wrestler. He has his spots and uses them.

 

In fact, if you want to talk limited, Ki is the man to talk about.

 

His 9/21 Title match vs. Xavier was horrid. Ki, not knowing how to work smart, worked a terrible match with the needed to be carried Xavier.

 

Yet, AJ Styles and Paul London, the former who at times can be the spottiest wrestler in the world and the latter who is a ROOKIE, both were able to have satisfactory matches with Xavier and MOTYC with AmDrag (well, London/AmDrag may not be a MOTYC, but it was something very special live on 12/7).

 

Tim

[Guest Nevermortal]

I think he means Dragon-Styles was the MOTYC, not Styles-London.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

@ beach

 

BB tommorow night and will explain

 

Tim

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

*Waits eagerly*

[Guest Pegasus Kid]

Agreed, I'm also eagerly awaiting Tim's insight on this one. I'm starting my review now but will re-watch London vs Dragon if I can get sufficient reason to believe I missed particular aspects of the match that could make it more enjoyable.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

What's so great?

 

12/7 was the first time I saw two guys go have a match in ROH that was deeper than just spots. 11/9 Styles/Dragon was terrific, but AJ's spots seemed to overshadow a real story. 3/30 Ki/Dragon isn't a favorite match of mine, but is still praise worthy. Not as good of a story and Ki is goofy with his lack of move set.

 

When I left the building on 12/7, I knew that was the best ROH match I had ever seen. I was there for 11/9 and tha card was better, but London/Dragon felt "Epic". The ladder match on 9/21 got London over but if you watch 10/5, 11/9, and 11/16, he really didn't bring it all together. On 12/7, with Dragon's help, he established a much better persona than "Please Don't Die"...he established himself as "The Hero who won't quit".

 

As for the match itself, it is a basic match. It doesn't try to get all cutesy with shoot style stuff that filled the majority of 3/30 Dragon v Ki and 10/5 Ki/Joe. It doesn't try for an easy pop by doing a fast wrestling sequence at the beginning like 11/9 Dragon/Styles. It doesn't need to do 20 dives to get over. It was a match that mixed the basics of Japanese and American wrestling and got over in front of a smaller crowd (since the NY fans weren't there).

 

London controls early by just hanging and trying to keep Dragon off balance. No quick reversals for no reason or trading arm drags, just solid work. When Dragon takes over, London does some of the best selling in ROH history with his awesome bumps off of the uppercuts. Dragon beats down London with a variety of offense that isn't over the top or indy innovationish. London's comebacks are well timed and Dragon puts him back in his control at the right times.

 

The ending was fantastic as well. Perfect for the match.

 

I didn't get to see this on tape until mid Feb. On tape, it held up just the same. Consise, stiff work, with a good mix of moves (even if London's neckbreaker is annoying--which he doesnt use anymore) but the key being the story. London showing he was more than a post machine, taking a beating, and overcoming the odds. Xavier did a fine job on 12/28 to help with the heat but London coming out on 12/7 made it so much easier.

 

Now what didn't you like so I can respond to specifics?

 

Tim

[Guest bob_barron]

Hey Tim-

 

I bought Epic Encounter last week and intend to watch it this weekend. Is there anything I should pay attention to while watching the match so I can truly appreciate it greatness?

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Just pay attention to the match. The spots they play off of from 12/7 can be easily noticed and there is a ton of new stuff. May pop it in tommorow if I have some free time.

 

Tim

[Guest Deviant]

Ahhh, thank Jebus. I didn't read the whole headline, I thought someone didn't like the 2/3 Falls match. I am eagerly waiting for that tape to arrive in Australia, so much so that I am just about ready to kill for it, and the last thing I want to hear is that it is disappointing.

[Guest bob_barron]

Ahhh, thank Jebus. I didn't read the whole headline, I thought someone didn't like the 2/3 Falls match. I am eagerly waiting for that tape to arrive in Australia, so much so that I am just about ready to kill for it, and the last thing I want to hear is that it is disappointing.

Don't worry-

 

I watched it for the first time last night (to celebrate) and it was amazing. Definetley one of those matches that lives up to the hype