Questions about HHH

[Lil' Bitch 0]

I remember him being on the Vengeance promo, obviously that was his original return date, but...

 

1.) What was he going to do at the PPV?

 

2.) Why did he no show?

 

And I'm pretty sure had he not been injured, he would have been part of Team WWF (instead of Big Show being on the team) during the Invasion PPV and the Winner Take All ME at Survivor Series.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I remember him being on the Vengeance promo, obviously that was his original return date, but...

 

1.) What was he going to do at the PPV?

 

2.) Why did he no show?

 

And I'm pretty sure had he not been injured, he would have been part of Team WWF (instead of Big Show being on the team) during the Invasion PPV and the Winner Take All ME at Survivor Series.

Those promos are done months in advance, it's most likely that he was expected to return then, but the re-hab did not allow till a bit later.

[Guest Mattdotcom]

Big Show wasn't on Team WWF for InVasion, just Survivor Series. Team WWF at InVasion was Austin, Angle, Jericho, Undertaker, and Kane. I've always wondered how they would've done those matches if HHH and Benoit weren't out that summer. For some reason, I think Benoit would have wound up in the Alliance.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Vengeance 2001 happened after the Invasion storyline was over.

[Guest HartFan86]

Wasn't Benoit actually suppose to win the WWF title and go to the alliance around KOTR 2001 - Night after on MSG, but the neck injury changed the plans?

[David Blazenwing 0]

And I'm pretty sure had he not been injured, he would have been part of Team WWF (instead of Big Show being on the team) during the Invasion PPV and the Winner Take All ME at Survivor Series.

But Triple H's storyline wife, Steph, was one of the Alliance leaders. Seeing as how HHH was still a heel at that point, I think he may have actually went w/ Steph and been an Alliance leader in the vein of Austin or RVD.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

^ That would have been cool and more believable.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

I'm pretty sure HHH was supposed to return at Vengeance. Even in the game storyline of SD:SYM, he came back and beat up the winner of the main event. So if this was the case, HHH would have beaten up Y2J after he won the UDC?

[Guest Dangerous A]

If HHH didn't get injured and Vince didn't get cold feet about Benoit and Jericho ME'ing against Austin, the Invasion would never have happened in the first place.

 

Plans were for HHH to turn around KOTR and then would feud with Austin throughout the summer.

 

HHH was also supposed to do the run in at the end of the Alliance vs WWF main event match at Survivor Series as well, but WWE decided against bringing HHH on for the first time unadvertised.

 

The Vengeance bit was they shot the ads for it months ahead figuring he'd be back. From a creative standpoint, he and the writing team didn't feel that he should debut in San Diego and instead saved it for MSG in January. They didn't want HHH screwing with the Unification tournament and he didn't want any part of it either.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Interesting. Thanks a lot. It also would have been cool if Benoit won the KOR main event and then jumped to the Alliance. Austin doing it was just...dumb.

[Guest Dangerous A]

That was a huge problem in 2001. Vince had absolutely zero faith in Jericho carrying a main event with Austin to headline KOTR, so he inserted Benoit. The problem is that makes the faces (Benoit and Jericho) look bad because the 2 of them can't deal with Austin. Vince had even less faith in Benoit because he isn't a great mic worker.

 

Vince has screwed Jericho worse than anyone with HHH a close second. Vince wanted to abort Jericho's title reign in January and privately stated that he felt Jericho was a failure as champ, even though Jericho had only held the belt for 4 weeks.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

So you're telling me The Rock was supposed to win at RR last year?

 

And I always wondered what Jericho did to become the UDC. Granted, of course he's a great worker with the total package, but he carried the title all the way to WM. You'd figure the buyouts would have increased had Rock or Austin beaten Jericho the previous months so Rock Vs. HHH or Austin Vs. HHH would have headlined WM XVIII instead.

[Guest Dangerous A]

No, Rock was put in after it was decided Jericho was going to be UDC. WWE hadn't planned that far in advance. The part that was planned in advance was HHH was going to be in the UDC title match at Mania and come out winning the title.

 

 

Believe it or not, Jericho getting the title UDC title was actually pushed by HHH. HHH wanted to return as a babyface. Since they had just turned Austin back babyface the night after survivor series, HHH needed to win the title from a heel. Rock and Austin were faces. That only left Angle (who HHH had already done a program with earlier) and Jericho. Plus if he faced Jericho he knew it would be easier to manipulate a win. There were rumblings last year of Jericho going over HHH at WM with HHH getting the title later. That was shut down with the character burial of Jericho when they had him picking up Steph's dog shit. HHH thought that he would make a drawing face and he was wrong. He also felt that since he had put his time in as the top heel for so long, he was entitled to the perks that top level faces get like the extra money from merchandise sales one gets being a top face and pushed like it.

[Guest Mattdotcom]

Oh, yeah. DA is right about the InVasion. However, if we're looking at it with no one injured AND WCW/ECW invade, I don't think Steph would have even become involved as she would have remained on TV with HHH, and thus wouldn't need a role as stupid as owner of ECW to get her back in the spotlight.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Okay, so Austin turned heel, him and HHH are best buddies. Jericho and Benoit are the top faces. No injuries occured, WCW/ECW were bought out?. What was supposed to happen angle wise from June to November? KOTR to Survivor Series? If you know that info...

[Guest Dangerous A]

I don't, but then again neither did WWE. While they did book somewhat in advance, in particular the main event scene, they started to slowly book week to week more and more like they have been doing now for awhile.

 

The only thing they had planned up was for Austin to feud with HHH through the summer, probrably with Summerslam as either the blowoff or the starting point. The Invasion would not have happened in the Summer of 2001 if HHH had not been injured.

 

Austin and HHH losing the tag titles was supposed to mark the beginning of the end of the two man power trip. Only WWE knows how long they would've dragged it out. If HHH would've been healthy, who knows how long an Invasion angle would've been hatched.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

So you're telling me just because of HHH's health, he is the entire reason we got the Alliance angle in the first place?!!

[Guest Dangerous A]

So you're telling me just because of HHH's health, he is the entire reason we got the Alliance angle in the first place?!!

Bingo.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

HHH tears quad

 

Benoit breaks neck

 

WCW invades

 

ECW invades

 

Alliance forms

 

WWE / Alliance fueds

 

Alliance dies

 

HHH comes back

 

I don't get it other than HHH used to work for WCW. : S

[Guest Dangerous A]

HHH's quad tear was huge. It altered the path WWF was to take. It introduced WCW/ECW Invasion storyline. Once HHH went out of the main event scene, Vince, who had no faith in Benoit or Jericho to feud alone with Austin, pulled the trigger on the Invasion angle.

 

The problems stem there because it was apparant the Invasion was booked to cement to the fans that WWF was the superior product as opposed to book for maximum box office. WWE could've (and should've) stretched out the Invasion a good year before letting it go. The original plan was for WWF to run WCW as a separate brand. Problem was the loyal WCW fans quit watching awhile back and the WWF fans were conditioned for decades to think WCW was inferior. Along with fans being smarter about things and knowing that Vince had purchased WCW, you can see why the WWF fans shit on the WCW main evented Raw in Seattle on some fateful July in 2001. From there, the decision was made that they wouldn't run a separate show with the WCW name because it wouldn't sell tickets.

 

So WWF did something they are good at, they buried it. Along with ECW. In one shot. It's called the Invasion.

 

All of this and more because of HHH's quad tear.

[Guest undisputedjericho]

Wasn't the 'Excess' timeslot originally planned for a WCW-only show?

[Guest The Czech Republic]

Along with fans being smarter about things and knowing that Vince had purchased WCW, you can see why the WWF fans shit on the WCW main evented Raw in Seattle on some fateful July in 2001. From there, the decision was made that they wouldn't run a separate show with the WCW name because it wouldn't sell tickets. So WWF did something they are good at, they buried it. Along with ECW. In one shot. It's called the Invasion.

I love how they shot their WCWad in TACOMA when they had a show in ATLANTA a few weeks later. They shouldn't have even done the invasion that early Geez.

 

and yes Excess was supposed to be "WCW Hot Box" or something but then they said "ah fuck it let's just make a two-hour edition of Livewire." I mean, at least pick a failed concept that could deliver good content.

[Guest undisputedjericho]

I think a WWF-run WCW show wouldn't have had that bad of ratings provided it wasn't just jobbers and was the top guys of the Alliance like Austin, RVD, Booker, and the Dudleys.

[Guest The Czech Republic]

But it may've been called "Hot Box." HOT BOX!

[Guest Dangerous A]

I think a WWF-run WCW show wouldn't have had that bad of ratings provided it wasn't just jobbers and was the top guys of the Alliance like Austin, RVD, Booker, and the Dudleys.

Maybe not, but it wouldn't draw any good ratings with the WCW name on it.

 

Again, WCW's loyal base either left years ago or left when McMahon purchased the company. McMahon never had a chance at getting those fans because they never agreed with Vince's vision of what wrestling was.(which is a steroid freak show) They were more workrate and good storyline oriented.

 

McMahon couldn't sell WCW to his audience since he had conditioned them for so long to hate WCW and took every chance he had to make WCW look inferior before the purchase. So guess what happens when you churn out Buff Bagwell and Booker T to main event the flagship show of WWF? The crowd shits on it. Good point by Czech Republic that they were planning on a Raw taping a week or two later than the infamous Tacoma show. Add on to the fact that Vince was too cheap and bullheaded to bring in the top WCW guys to lead a real promotion vs promotion angle. Whatever fans WWF had that watched or vaguely knew of WCW, I can tell you the first person that comes to mind is not DDP. The only person who had any significant meaning to them from WCW was Booker, and he was already associated with the shittiest time of WCW, the Russo era. WWE could've brought in Steiner, Flair, the nWo, Sting, and tons of others who casual fans associate WCW with. But instead Vince felt he didn't need to buy out those guys contracts and instead brought them all in later anyways (except Sting, but wait on that one as well) and by then it was too late and the appeal went away.

 

The botch job of the Invasion is almost like a mini-XFL in that there was tons of money to be made from the angle and WWF flushed it down the toilet so Vince could stroke his wrestling cock in front of us and say "I told you WWF was better!" We get it Vince. You lasted longer than they did. So now go make some money off of it. Oh shit, too late for that.

[Guest The Czech Republic]

Here's some food for thought: you know who one of the leaders of the Invasion was?

 

You guessed it, Mark Jindrak.

[Guest Dangerous A]

Here's some food for thought: you know who one of the leaders of the Invasion was?

 

You guessed it, Mark Jindrak.

And he was promptly sent to OVW to be de-programmed.

 

Actually, he was not ready for WCW to begin with. However WWE has a weird way of picking who gets sent to OVW and who gets to come in straight up. I don't know how they determine it because I know they weren't watching the shows to know who was good and who wasn't.

[Guest Coffey]

Speaking of WCW, where is Vampiro at nowadays? Last I heard he cut off all his hair and was in MLW. Is he still there? Are they still alive?

[Guest Dangerous A]

He might be doing MLW and some NA indy bookings.

 

I know he is in a main event program in CMLL in Mexico with Shocker, Ultimo Guerrero, and Rey Bucanero. I watch him every Sat and Sun on Galavision. Good stuff.

[Guest The Czech Republic]

Here's some food for thought: you know who one of the leaders of the Invasion was?

 

You guessed it, Mark Jindrak.

And he was promptly sent to OVW to be de-programmed

True. And he just now stopped getting injured. Between him and Orton, the future sure is fragile.

 

But still, my heart would not be brimming with fear if one of the invasion's leaders was a guy previously known for being A VIOLENT COLLEGE BASKETBALL PLAYER.