Bret Hart speaks about Raw segment

[chaosrage 0]

He could have feuded with Mankind.

They could've, but do you really think that would draw better than UT/HBK? People were dying to see UT beat the hell out of Shawn. So much that they could put it on 3 different PPVs and nobody would complain about it. Bret had been doing the same thing since Wrestlemania too, while Shawn's character was new and interesting.

[Guest bravesfan]

Well, this thread has ruined my day.

 

Who gives a shit about if's, when's and then's - the FACT is, a human being's life was shattered by Vince McMahon - the Montreal incident was the fuse that detonated Bret Hart's life. His brother died due to a needless idiotic angle - Bret's family and siblings were torn apart by the lawsuit. His mother recently passed away. The death of Davey Boy tore apart what was left of the relationship between his sisters Diana and Martha. Bret's life was almost sealed by a motorcycle accident, and subsequent stroke that left him paralyzed.

 

The LEAST Vince can do, is to MOVE THE FUCK ON.

 

The man's life is fragile due to Vince - McMahon is oblivious to this, and proceeds to erase all the proverbial "fences" that he has mended with Bret - recreating the screwjob several times (SS98, Benoit/Austin, Rock/Hogan II being the major matches), while telling the fans, AND BRET HIMSELF, to move on...because WE can't get over it.

 

And to label Bret as "bitter" - if you think, after all that Vince has done to Bret, that Bret would still even SPEAK to the man - well, if you still would call Bret "bitter" - you must be either a McMahon, a McMahon lackey or a member of the Klique.

[Guest Loss4Words]

It's not about outdrawing other feuds on the same show. It's about making the program better as a whole. If they were going to compete with someone, it needed to be WCW, not themselves.

 

Yeah, Shawn v Undertaker might have still been the hotter feud. But Bret would have had a program the entire time as well that had interest, and the promos from both Hart and Foley would have lead to good business, I can assure you.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

The American government is based on Christianity. Hence why it says "In God we Trust" on the back of money, and why you have to "Swear to God" in court. There is nothing to prove that God doesn't exist. There are plenty to prove your "what if" theory incorrect...like what happened.

 

But what happened had _nothing_ to do with Bret staying in the WWE and had _everything_ to do with Bret NOT staying in the WWE. The "what if" is dealing with what would have happened had Bret stayed with the WWE. Are you getting this? Is this registering? (btw, the US government is also based on the illuminati and free-masonry if you go by everything on the US dollar)

 

What did I mean by those expressions? Believing in God had nothing to do with it. They were simply figures of speech. Which, I'm sure you already knew. You're just trying to grab for straws now.

 

_Nowhere_ did I say _anything_ about faith. What I *did( say was that "My God" and "My Goodness" connote (suggest) disbelief. As in you don't believe that had Bret been there things would have changed.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Did Bret even have a feud / match with Mankind? Pretty sad they stuck the Patriot in instead JUST so they pointlessly continue the USA Vs. Canada angle.

[chaosrage 0]

It's about why Shawn was main eventing instead of Bret at the time. Mankind/Bret would have been better than the stuff with the Patriot obviously, however Bret was still becoming #3 in the company by that point. It's again nobody's fault, he just wasn't as valuable a commodity as he once was. Not enough at least in McMahon's eyes to make an effort to hold on to for double the salary of any other WWF star.

[Guest HartFan86]

I have a feeling that someone turned down the Foley/Hart feud for whatever reason. It makes sense...both guys obviously respected each other and got along fine, and probably both would of loved to do a program.

 

Bret even said he would job the title to Foley clean on Raw instead of HBK.

 

Something tells me that a Bret/Mankind program got declined for whatever reason.

 

And Bret wouldn't have given a shit if he was the number 3 guy in the company.....people would easily pay for a Foley/Hart program.

 

Easily.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

The problem is this...

 

The WWE didn't tell you to gte over it.

 

Shawn Michaels told you to get over it, and you know what? Shawn Michaels HAS gotten over it. I've never seen him talk about afterwards except at the request of reporters or interviewers. After the screwjob, he continued to try and carry the company till the ball could be passed to Austin. He had surgery done, he retired, he began training the best workers on the continent, came back, showed the world he still had IT. Shawn has moved on, and I don't think anyone can truly dispute that.

 

Vince had his reasons, and I agree with those reasons. Bret has made valid arguments as well. But its time for Bret to admit one thing. Shawn Michaels has tried to apologize for his part in it, he's gotten on with his life.

 

Stop badmouthing Shawn about it. Stop questioning his faith over it. Let the man live his life or risk becoming exactly like the person you loathe the most: Vince McMahon.

[chaosrage 0]

I think he would and did give a shit because it put him beneath Michaels. He refused a program that would put him over Shawn at the end of their feud, to take the belt to drop it to Austin in the main event of WM, just because it was more losses than wins. That's where he decided to go to WCW.

 

Who knows with Foley? He was a mid-carder in the middle of the Dude Love thing, you know it might not have been all that good of a fit. Bret was in his 100% serious war on USA mode, Foley in the meantime was getting over by being funny.

 

Patriot/Bret was set before Summerslam. Dude was set to defend the tag titles with Austin at Ground Zero, although Austin getting injured threw him in limbo. All he did then was go back into his other storyline with HHH that had been going all summer and led right into him fighting DX.

[Guest HartFan86]

Foley could easily go back to Mankind quickly.

 

It's a perfect scenario....Bret beats Dude Love quickly....then feuds with Mankind....then Foley brings out Cactus Jack.

 

He didn't like the idea about the win/loss thing because it WAS HBK.

 

Anyone else, I'd say I'm 99% sure he'd have no problem with.

[Guest C-Bacon]

Foley was doing the Mankind gimmick at the time, as he wrestled Kane in Montreal at SS97.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Shawn Michaels, still the lying, arrogant prick he was five years ago. Fuck him.

[chaosrage 0]

I know he wouldn't have a problem with anybody else, but you have to expect him to job to HBK some time. He was beginning to overshadow Hart as a heel. Bret would get the title back and even go on to main event Wrestlemania. In the end, the only person he'd really put over would be Austin.

 

Now that seems kinda weird to me because the obvious choice to have is HBK vs Austin at WM. So I don't know how Bret could pass that up. He'd lose at Montreal (only makes sense because he won throughout the year), but he'd get his win back.

 

I could see Foley/Bret, but I could understand why they wouldn't do it too. The whole multiple personalities and goofiness just wouldn't go with USA/Canada which was completely serious.

 

Bret had real reasons for not liking everybody including the fans. What would he hate about Foley? How could Foley make him bitter? Bret wasn't the type of heel to beat up and make fun of the poor deranged schizo. That was DX's job.

[Guest Coffey]

What happened had nothing to do with Bret staying in the WWE and had everything to do with Bret NOT staying in the WWE. The "what if" is dealing with what would have happened had Bret stayed with the WWE. Are you getting this? Is this registering?

 

You're the one not understanding. I'm saying it's impossible for Bret to have been there. Then you try to insult my intelligence by saying "Are you getting this? Is this registering?" Your entire arguement is that had something that didn't happen, happen...then this would've happened. It doesn't work like that. Things happen for a reason, and Bret Hart was not there. That is a fact. Fact is he was not there, thus he couldn't have done anything about the situation.

 

What I did say was that "My God" and "My Goodness" connote disbelief. As in you don't believe that had Bret been there things would have changed.

 

I don't know how else to make you understand. I don't believe Bret could've been there because he wasn't. That's as simplistic as I can make it. Bret Hart was not there. You're arguing that if Bret was there things would be different. He wasn't there. How can you argue something that didn't happen, and has no possible way of ever happening? Simple, you can't.

Edited July 13, 2003 by Mr. Jag0

[Guest HartFan86]

I could see Foley/Bret, but I could understand why they wouldn't do it too. The whole multiple personalities and goofiness just wouldn't go with USA/Canada which was completely serious.

True, but it could get the focus off the Canada/USA storyline, which was honestly not going anywhere after Montreal...you have to agree on that. The main focus was going to be Austin/Bret at Mania 14....not USA vs. Canada. So that would of helped it settle the whole country feud down.

 

Bret had real reasons for not liking everybody including the fans.  What would he hate about Foley?  How could Foley make him bitter?  Bret wasn't the type of heel to beat up and make fun of the poor deranged schizo.  That was DX's job.

 

I can't think of anything off my head, cause it's 4:30 AM, but Bret could of gone after any babyface and get over as a heel. Foley could get over with the fans easy enough. Bret could hate how maybe Foley was indeed that crazy wrestler...and Bret maybe wanted to prove his abilities were better then Foley's?

 

I don't know. I'll come back to this topic after a good night's sleep.

[Guest Choken One]

That's completely correct.

 

While an Hart/Foley feud would have been incredible, It would not be the right angle to send to Mania.

 

So what would have been better?

 

Since we going ahead and saying that Bret was staying...

 

There is *NO* doubt that Shawn/Austin was *THE* Main event to go with, esp. with Mike Tyson being there...

 

Bret would not have had good chemistry with Mike Tyson and it would not have gotten as much attention as Shawn drew with Mike...

 

Shawn was the *perfect* Heel for this angle.

 

So Bret and Shawn would have wrestled to an Draw (30 minutes) or a Non-Contest but as long as Bret didn't JOB to shawn in his "HOME TOWN" of Canada.

 

So simply...few weeks later You have the MEGA main event at DXINYOURHOUSE in a Title Rematch in a Cage match...

 

Shawn and Bret tear each apart and it ends with them channeling the Owen/Bret finish with both climbing out of the cage and fighting down...

 

HHH and Chyna are there rooting Shawn but KEN SHAMROCK the mega american face runs down and knocks out Hunter and Chyna...but in a shocking SWERVE attacks Bret with a Chairshot and bret gets caught in the rungs and Shawn falls to his victory running away with the title..

 

Shamrock...with the double turn in effect nails a bloody bret with the chair as he continues to hung upside down...

 

This clearly turns Bret the sympathetic Face again after Owen and Davey turn on each other...Owen getting the baby face run.

 

They go ahead and blow off the lingering Undertaker/Shawn angle with the Casket Match...

 

Bret and Owen team against Shamrock and Davey Boy...

 

Shawn goes over Undertaker....

 

Bret and Owen lose via Neidhart's interference (Neidhart had been "Wavering" on whose side he was on and screwed Bret and Owen for Davey because he knew how it felt to be an outcast in the Foundation just because they married into it)...

 

We go to the Rumble...Austin wins.

 

Rock does his 54 minute thing but doesn't have a title match...

 

So here is what we got for Mania built

 

WWF Title Match

HBK © vs Stone Cold

W/ Special Enforcer Mike Tyson

 

I Quit Match

Bret Hart Vs Ken Shamrock

 

*-Playing off of Shamrock being the Ref for last year's I quit Match and the "SUBMISSION" prowness of each men...

 

Owen Hart Vs British Bulldog w/ Neidhart

 

WWF I.C Title Match

The Rock © Vs Mankind

 

*Rock would have been great as the COCKY asshole mocking Mankind's deranged personality...Mankind is built as the mega underdog.

 

The Undertaker Vs Kane

 

European Title Match

Triple H © Vs ???

 

*What other Mid-card faces were there? Marc Mero? Ahmed Johnson?

 

Lightweight Title Match

Taka Vs Aguilar

 

*Whatever that dude's name was...

 

Tag Team Title Match

New Age Outlaws © Vs Mystery Tag Team (Legion of Doom 2000)

 

*You still get the return pop and Put the titles on LOD for one more quickie run.

 

RIGHT THERE! 8 GREAT MATCHES!

 

 

We would have gotten a MUCH BETTER mania had bret stuck around...

 

That plot would've easily convinced Bret to stay...

 

He doesn't job at home...Puts over Shawn in a gimmick match without outright jobbing...Turns himself face...gets a program with one of his favorites...helps his Brother and Brother in laws stay in the upper card...

[chaosrage 0]

USA/Canada was Bret's whole gimmick as a heel though. The way you're supposed to see it is Bret never changed at all. It was everything else that changed. The attitude changed, and the US fans changed. Fans in the early 90s wouldn't have cheered a rattlesnake instead of him. The business wasn't so cutthroat then, everybody didn't get screwed out of matches all the time. "There's kind of a new motto in the WWF, you scratch my back, and I'll stab yours" Foley wasn't exactly someone that would stab him in the back. Mankind wasn't a bad guy, he was just a little messed up from having a strange childhood and making his living in deathmatches.

 

If you can't picture the bret hart character, face, heel, or real life since they're all the same, hating him, it's probably not a good idea to do it.

 

Mankind's abilities wouldn't be much of a challenge, heh. In terms of storyline, Mankind was the guy that gave it his all for 10 years and could never make it to top. On the other side Bret was one of the best if not the best ever.

[Guest JMA]

The pure genius and innovative thing about Bret turning "heel" in the US is that he was cheered outside the States. I remember thinking how realistic it was. It's too bad they can't pull it off today.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

The pure genius and innovative thing about Bret turning "heel" in the US is that he was cheered outside the States. I remember thinking how realistic it was. It's too bad they can't pull it off today.

 

It was working for Jericho 'til they had him blow off his fellow Canadian fans.

[Guest Choken One]

^ Thing is? Jericho can go back and they will still cheer him...Not like this really will damage his popularity in Canada.

[Guest JMA]

They could have also did it with La Resistance... but they blew it. They insulted Canada, when in fact, they're Canadian (albeit French-Canadian). Talk about stupid.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

I'm just surprised the Canadian fans didn't storm the ring and just beat the shit out of HBK, Vince, and Hebner. I was actually hoping it would happen seeing how Canadians feel so passionately about the incident and most of them would most likely be out after their blood. Vigelante (sp?) justice!