In Defense Of Kevin Nash Being The Lowest-Drawing

[Guest Boo_Bradley]

Also, in defense of Nash again, he had a weak set of supporting characters whereas that's not really the case with Brock. Ok, sure there was Bret and Shawn, but there was also guys like Mantaur, Kwang, and Man Mountain Rock. Brock has guys like Eddie Guerrero. Rhyno and Rey Mysterio Jr. The superstars aren't as pathetic as they were before. Nash seems to have done more with what was given to him than Brock.

Actually Nash's Midcard - uppercard talent also included:

 

Ahmed Johnson/Sid/Bigelow/123 Kid/Hakushi/Bulldog/Backlund/Jarrett/Razor/Undertaker/Lex Luger/Owen Hart/ Shane Douglas/ Goldust etc

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Nash was entertaining as champ, Brock isn't.

 

How can you honestly mean that? Nash can't wrestle good for shit.

Edited July 15, 2003 by Rico_Constantino

[Guest Austin3164life]

Wrestling itself is in a slump, so saying it is Brock's fault that he isn't a good draw is BS. The ratings weren't anything better before Brock became champion, whereas Nash became champion after a decent drawing year for Bret's 8 month reign. Nash's title reign was the reason the WWF slumped in the mid-ninetees. No one was a big draw then either. Bret and Shawn were not huge draws, but they were great champions due to their in-ring ability. If Nash could carry lesser opponents to good matches, perhaps it would've caught people's eyes. Brock has superior opposition to his crown, BUT, the WWE booking has been absolutely horrendous lately, and there's still only one free-tv promotion airing nationally, so Brock has the burden almost* by himself (excluding the "World" champ Triple H). WWF was getting their asses kicked by WCW during Nash's reign, but now the WWE is only "competing" against itself. Once the terrible booking turns around for the better and the right guys get pushed, ratings will look up. If Brock has a one year reign and proves to be lower than Nash, then he will hit a new low. Hopefully, and probably, based on his good workrate and competent competition this won't happen. It all really depends on the booking.

[Guest TheGame2705]

Actually Nash's Midcard - uppercard talent also included:

 

Ahmed Johnson/Sid/Bigelow/123 Kid/Hakushi/Bulldog/Backlund/Jarrett/Razor/Undertaker/Lex Luger/Owen Hart/ Shane Douglas/ Goldust etc

The only people on that list that I see that could have a match the fans would wanna see is with Razor Ramon (who faced him before he won the world title), Undertaker (who he faced after he lost the title), and Lex Luger (who left at the beginning of their new program).

 

 

As a side note, if you look at the 19 IYH's, Nash drew the three best numbers out of them and that includes up to December 1997.

 

Nash's Attendance:

Rumble (10,000) vs. Bret

WM 11 (15,000) vs. Shawn

IYH #1 (7,000) vs. Sid

KOTR 95 (15,000) w/Bam Bam vs. Sid and Tatanka

IYH #2 (6,500) vs. Sid

SSlam 95 (18,062) vs. Mabel

IYH #3 (6,500) w/Shawn vs. Yoko/Bulldog

IYH #4 (10,399) vs. Bulldog

SSeries 95 (14,000) vs. Bret

 

Brock's Attendance:

Unforgiven 02 (16,000) vs. Taker

No Mercy 02 (10,000) vs. Taker

SSeries 02 (17,930) vs. Big Show

Backlash 03 (10,000) vs. John Cena

Judgement Day 03 (13,000) vs. Big Show

 

More people came to see the PPV with Diesel vs. Mabel then any of Brock's PPV defenses.

Edited July 15, 2003 by TheGame2705

[Guest Anglesault]

How big is each building?

[JustJoe2k5 0]

Lowest-Drawing World Champion=Big Show. When the #1 Contender to your title is Big Bossman, and your World title match is put on before Triple H vs. Vince McMahon, then you know you are doing something wrong. The draws were high around then, but it was for various other reasons than Big Show.

[JustJoe2k5 0]

You also can't make a fair comparison as pro-wrestling overall was alot less popular then than it is now.

[JustJoe2k5 0]

Nash was entertaining as champ, Brock isn't.

 

How can you honestly mean that? Nash can't wrestle good for shit.

Kevin Nash was good in '95, and his overall character was very entertaining, but I think he was better when he was heel.

[Guest Retro Rob]

Actually Nash's Midcard - uppercard talent also included:

 

Ahmed Johnson/Sid/Bigelow/123 Kid/Hakushi/Bulldog/Backlund/Jarrett/Razor/Undertaker/Lex Luger/Owen Hart/ Shane Douglas/ Goldust etc

The only people on that list that I see that could have a match the fans would wanna see is with Razor Ramon (who faced him before he won the world title), Undertaker (who he faced after he lost the title), and Lex Luger (who left at the beginning of their new program).

 

 

As a side note, if you look at the 19 IYH's, Nash drew the three best numbers out of them and that includes up to December 1997.

 

Nash's Attendance:

Rumble (10,000) vs. Bret

WM 11 (15,000) vs. Shawn

IYH #1 (7,000) vs. Sid

KOTR 95 (15,000) w/Bam Bam vs. Sid and Tatanka

IYH #2 (6,500) vs. Sid

SSlam 95 (18,062) vs. Mabel

IYH #3 (6,500) w/Shawn vs. Yoko/Bulldog

IYH #4 (10,399) vs. Bulldog

SSeries 95 (14,000) vs. Bret

 

Brock's Attendance:

Unforgiven 02 (16,000) vs. Taker

No Mercy 02 (10,000) vs. Taker

SSeries 02 (17,930) vs. Big Show

Backlash 03 (10,000) vs. John Cena

Judgement Day 03 (13,000) vs. Big Show

 

More people came to see the PPV with Diesel vs. Mabel then any of Brock's PPV defenses.

I don't think you could say Nash was the main draw for any of the Big Five because they all have their own gimmick attached to them. Not to mention that at SummerSlam where Nash fought Mabel, Shawn and Razor had their Ladder rematch.

 

If you want to compare anything, I think it should be ratings since you could directly pinpoint them on a specific person.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

While Kevin Nash's reign wasn't that great financially compared to other WWE Champions, in defense of him, people always seem to call Nash out on being the worst drawing WWE Champion of all time but yet these same people seem to "forget" that current WWE Champion Brock Lesnar hasn't fared that much better (if he even has), but yet, no one calls him out on it. What gives?

 

Let's see, at the MCI Center in Washington DC about a 3 weeks for a houseshow, Brock Lesnar managed to draw a WHOPPING crowd of 16,000 ...... empty seats. Ok, ok, sorry, but Brock managed to draw about 2000 to 3000 fans. Hey, I'll give Brock some credit. At the very most, the arena was 1/6 full!!! Granted, Brock didn't make the show because he had an injury from I believe a boating accident the previous weekend, but then again, the fans would not have known that Brock would've missed the show until they got to the arena when Finkel said himself that Brock Lesnar wasn't in the building. But Brock was advertised though, and despite that, he only managed to bring in about 2000-3000 people.

 

Everytime I read house show results, it almost always reads how few people went to the events and how much of the arena was empty, rather than how full it was, not to mention that these house shows seems to be drawing between 2000-4000 people. Yeah, Brock Lesnar is doing so much better than Kevin Nash in his prime. But yet, no calls Brock Lesnar out on it, despite the fact that he may be the lowest drawing WWE Champion of alltime, or at least tied with Kevin Nash. I don't think that's fair.

 

As a draw, I think it's safe to say that Brock Lesnar is a failure as a champion. He's been pushed to the moon and he's barely made a dent or spark in overall WWE business. Brock just doesn't put butts in seats, nor does he really draw PPV buys/ratings. Wrestlemania drew the lowest buyrate in quite sometime, and guess what was the main event? BROCK LESNAR vs. Kurt Angle. I rest my case, well not really, I have more. Also.....

 

Quite frankly, I can't blame the fans because who wants to see some boring country bumpkin hillybilly farm boy anyways? Maybe SOME people, but not a sufficient amount. Suffice to say, Brock Lesnar is not "The Next Big Thing" and I doubt he ever will be. For as long as he is champion, WWE will just continue drawing flies to their shows. Making Brock Lesnar the poster boy of the WWE is like the NBA making "Big Country" Bryant Reeves the poster boy of the NBA, providing he didn't retire so prematurely. It just doesn't work on a national scale. Maybe in like Arkansas or North Dakota where milking cows and hauling hay around is prevelant and, but not nationally, if I do say so.

 

Anywho, just to correct people. Next time you say who is the lowest drawing champion, if you must say Kevin Nash, also include "/Brock Lesnar" next to Nash's name as well. It's only fair.

your highly fucking stupid if you believe this one....

[Guest alkeiper]

Since we have split crews now, wouldn't the easiest way to evaluate drawing power simply be to compare the two tours? If Raw draws much better than Smackdown, we can assume that Brock is not drawing. But Raw draws poorly as well. At least it did when HHH-Nash came to town.

[Guest nikowwf]

No one would be a good champ right now because one of the belt's is on HHH, and that belt has NO credibility, and it pulls down the other belt to its level.

 

If they would have went with Brock as the sole champ he'd be doing much better.

 

BTW, whats with the NASH defenses on the board, or the BILLY GUNN support, or the A-TRAIN, SEAN O-HAIRE love? lately we have a lot of threads in defense of people who absolutely suck.

 

niko

[Guest CanadianChick]

Actually Nash's Midcard - uppercard talent also included:

 

Ahmed Johnson/Sid/Bigelow/123 Kid/Hakushi/Bulldog/Backlund/Jarrett/Razor/Undertaker/Lex Luger/Owen Hart/ Shane Douglas/ Goldust etc

The only people on that list that I see that could have a match the fans would wanna see is with Razor Ramon (who faced him before he won the world title), Undertaker (who he faced after he lost the title), and Lex Luger (who left at the beginning of their new program).

 

 

As a side note, if you look at the 19 IYH's, Nash drew the three best numbers out of them and that includes up to December 1997.

 

Nash's Attendance:

Rumble (10,000) vs. Bret

WM 11 (15,000) vs. Shawn

IYH #1 (7,000) vs. Sid

KOTR 95 (15,000) w/Bam Bam vs. Sid and Tatanka

IYH #2 (6,500) vs. Sid

SSlam 95 (18,062) vs. Mabel

IYH #3 (6,500) w/Shawn vs. Yoko/Bulldog

IYH #4 (10,399) vs. Bulldog

SSeries 95 (14,000) vs. Bret

 

Brock's Attendance:

Unforgiven 02 (16,000) vs. Taker

No Mercy 02 (10,000) vs. Taker

SSeries 02 (17,930) vs. Big Show

Backlash 03 (10,000) vs. John Cena

Judgement Day 03 (13,000) vs. Big Show

 

More people came to see the PPV with Diesel vs. Mabel then any of Brock's PPV defenses.

Maybe so, but if you take the average of attendance for each show, Brock has a better average. I think the best way is to compare buyrates though, because with attendance size, there can be complications such as the size of the building.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

The lowest drawing world champion in terms of numbers was Sid, followed very closely by Shawn Michaels. Diesel is #3 on that list, but quite higher than the other two. The reason people claim that he is the worst drawing champion ever is because he sunk ratings further from the previous champion than any other champion in WWF history (although he is challenged by Shawn Michaels in 1996 and Hulk Hogan in 2002). Bret Hart always drew well as champ with the exception of his final reign in 1997. The dark ages is generally considered to be from around 1993-1997, but the WWF was never in danger of going out of business until Diesel's reign. Diesel was also the first champion to lose the ratings battle to WCW. As for the opponents you mentioned, only Mantaur & Kwang even appeared on PPV (both being in Rumble matches). They can hardly be compared to Eddy & Benoit. They are more at the level of Maven & Tommy Dreamer. Mabel was a brainfart, but Sid had had success before (in 1992 and in WCW) and Diesel also drew terrible buys with the likes of Shawn Michaels, Davey Boy Smith & Bret Hart (who had always been a good draw). Brock Lesnar may be maineventing shows of 2000-3000 people, but Diesel regularly headed house shows of less than 500. Those were the days when WWF had no choice but to start running shows in high school gymnasiums. Anybody who was already a smark in 1995 will remember this quite clearly.

 

If you include WCW, Nash shares the honour with Hulk Hogan of having the riegns that brought that company to an end (Dec 1998 - March 1999). Although WCW did many things wrong before and after, those two reigns is the pivotal moment in the fall of WCW. Hogan has had many successes (his 1984-1988 WWF title reign, his first NWO reign) that prevents him from being called one of the worst champions ever, even though he had some of the worst reigns as well. Nash, on the other hand, has had nothing but bad, poorly drawing reigns. One nearly killed the WWF, and another led directly to the death of WCW. There is no doubt that he is the worst world champion of all time. Even Ultimate Warrior didn't kill ratings as quickly as Diesel did.

 

As for Brock Lesnar, he isn't even the worst drawing world champion at the present. That honour would belong to HHH.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

The problem with Nash was he had ONE WHOLE YEAR to bring ratings/attendance up and didn't.

 

If you have a Champ for one year who doesn't improve crap then I'd say you have one sorry champ.

 

Plus I'd like to see someone compare those attendance numbers with the compacity of the arena or someone put up a Percentage of how many people were there compared to the compacity.

 

Not to mention you're comparing a man who was champ from SummerSlam to Survivor Series to a man who was Champ for a year.

 

Plus what were the buyrates for Nash's reign? I know he sunk the ratings pretty low by the end of his reign.

 

And like was said before nowdays nothing is drawing. WWE hovers around the same low numbers no matter what's going on it seems.

[Guest Your Olympic Hero]

The Brock house show wouldn't draw anyway b/c half of the main talent (Austin, HHH, Flair, Jericho, Booker, Kane, RVD) are all on Raw. This is why the brand extension horseshit still isn't a good idea, esp. for house shows.

[Guest Retro Rob]

Those were the days when WWF had no choice but to start running shows in high school gymnasiums. Anybody who was already a smark in 1995 will remember this quite clearly.

Pop in an old tape of Raw from 1995-1996 and look at how the small the arena's were for the TV Tapings. It is unbelievable how tiny they used to be as opposed to now.

[Guest Dangerous A]

Pop in an old tape of Raw from 1995-1996 and look at how the small the arena's were for the TV Tapings. It is unbelievable how tiny they used to be as opposed to now.

Methinks we are headed back to tiny arenas real soon if business stays where it's at. Kind of sucks papering all those big arenas, you know.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Plus what were the buyrates for Nash's reign? I know he sunk the ratings pretty low by the end of his reign.

 

Not as low as they would become later, but he sunk ratings like a rock.

 

Summerslam 1994 featuring Bret/Owen drew a 1.3, and it was down to 0.9 during Diesel's reign (it dropped to 0.58 with Michaels as champ). By the end of Diesel's reign he was drawing around 0.4 for the IYH (and 0.5 for Survivor Series). It was still better than both Sid (0.35) and Shawn Michaels (0.37) were drawing, but not by much and the ratings were pretty crap (although Bret Hart brought them back up to around 0.8 for his winter 1996 run) at the start of both of their reigns. Diesel's buyrates fell more than any other champion in the history of the company, and they were still dropping when his reign was mercy-killed.

[Guest Retro Rob]

I don't see how TV ratings, attendance, or buyrates could all be pegged on the Champion. Maybe back in the 80s and early 90s when the WWF Title match really was the focus of the show.

 

For example, do we attribute WrestleMania X's 1.68 to Yokozuna? House shows, TV and PPVs are not successful or not because of any one person (in most cases), they are joint efforts.

[Guest godthedog]

did ratings go back down after shawn got the belt at WM? how far?

[Guest Retro Rob]

The ratings were in the high 2.0s before he won it. After he won it the ratings jumped around even hitting a low 4.0 a couple of times and remained in the 3.0s for a little while before going back to their original numbers.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

More people came to see the PPV with Diesel vs. Mabel

 

Wost SummerSlam Main Event...ever.