Cornette on IWA-MS

[Guest Nevermortal]

DON’T YOU BLOODY CALL IT WRESTLING

As a native Louisvillian and a 21-year veteran of professional wrestling, I was disturbed and dismayed to read the June 25 article on Ian Rotten’s Independent Wrestling Association. Disturbed, as any sane adult would be, to read of these vulgar displays of violence, and dismayed that your readers who are not familiar with pro wrestling will now paint ALL promotions with the same brush.

 

At the risk of being charged with self-promotion, I must list MY qualifications to comment on pro wrestling. In a 17-year career as a wrestling manager, I appeared on hundreds of pay-per-view and cable network events for World Championship Wrestling and Vince McMahon’s World Wrestling Federation (now WWE), as well performing at thousands of live events in all 50 states and every Canadian province. As a color commentator, I have called the action for pay-per-views events and WCW and WWE broadcasts in North America and for international syndication.

 

In 1999, I retired from the road to return to Louisville and join with Ohio Valley Wrestling owner and founder Danny Davis as a partner to bring major league pro wrestling back to Louisville. As the Matchmaker and television host for OVW, I have signed the industry’s biggest stars to appear at Louisville Gardens and Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom, including Stone Cold Steve Austin, the Undertaker, Mick Foley, Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit. Davis, a 25-year veteran widely regarded as the industry’s finest teacher, has trained more than 40 WWE contract talents here, including current WWE champion Brock Lesnar.

 

OVW is the WWE’s only developmental program, and our TV show has aired on WBKI-TV on Saturdays at 11 p.m. for the past three years. OVW was profiled in a June cover story in the Lane Report, a Kentucky business magazine. To paraphrase a famous vice presidential candidate: I know professional wrestling, I have worked in professional wrestling, and, IWA, you are NOT professional wrestling.

 

The IWA is in Indiana because its types of events are not allowed in Kentucky. Because of the lack of regulation in Indiana, National Guard Armories and many school gyms there have chosen to ban ALL pro wrestling, penalizing reputable promoters to eliminate the trash.

 

To say that Rotten began his career as a “pure” wrestler is ludicrous. He has been a fringe performer, at best, with only a brief supporting role with the now-defunct ECW bringing him anything but local exposure. At that level, he is not a blip on the radar screen. His morbid, pathological need to be recognized as “someone,” even if only by a few hundred people, drives him to mutilate his body in a rundown Clarksville warehouse for little or no financial compensation.

 

At the same time, he serves as a public relations nightmare for those of us who view pro wrestling as a uniquely American art form and sport that combines athleticism with showmanship, skill with charisma, and, at the highest level, provides lifetime financial security. WWE athletes routinely earn six- to seven-figure incomes annually.

 

Which brings me to the most disturbing part of the article: the medical bills incurred by IWA “wrestlers” because of barbaric stunts. WWE wrestlers’ medical bills and physical therapy expenses are paid by the company, while the athlete continues to receive his minimum contract salary if he is unable to compete. Noncontract wrestlers-in-training ARE responsible for their own medical bills, but OVW does not allow any of the dangerous, “garbage wrestling” stunts of the IWA.

 

Wrestling is a contact sport, and there can be serious injuries. The irresponsible use of barbed wire, light tubes, broken glass and the like has no place in it. To call any of this activity “entertainment” is to tax the very definition of the word.

 

For every Steve Austin, there are thousands of young men dreaming of wrestling stardom. Most don’t have the size, athletic ability, training or mental acumen to make it. Rotten and promoters of his ilk prey on them. This is reprehensible; even if not illegal, it is certainly morally irresponsible.

 

Rotten said he likes “to compare wrestling to plays and things like that.” I like to compare outfits such as the IWA to Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland in a barn saying, “Hey kids, let’s put on a show!” OVW trains athletes for a career in professional wrestling, not a lifetime of pain and scar tissue. OVW presents a sport, not a freak show. OVW has trained high school and college All-Americans, NFL veterans, NCAA heavyweight wrestling champions, an American Gladiators champion and a former U.S. Olympic wrestler for professional careers. They resent their hard work, dedication and sacrifice being negated by operations, like the IWA, that create the impression that pro wrestling is sideshow trash.

 

Give the IWA all the publicity you want. Attend its events, if you wish. Just don’t call it professional wrestling.

 

—Jim Cornette

 

Gee Jim, why don't you tell us what you really think....

[Guest Jimmy Saint]

If you want to know what he really thinks just add the words 'fuck' and 'shit' liberally throuout the rant.

[Guest Sandman9000]

Don't call IWA-MS professional wrestling?

 

Then what exactly are CM Punk, Chris Hero, Colt Cabana, Danny Daniels, Jimmy Jacobs, Alex Shelly, JC Bailey (at times), "Spyder" Nate Webb (at times), Mark Wolf, even Ian himself at times, and more doing in the ring then? Playing grabass?

 

What the hell were those 16 guys, including several of the above, doing on the nights of November 1st and 2nd last year then? You don't call that wrestling Jim? Why, they didn't work the arm enough for you?

 

Maybe ol' Corny here knows that nothing he does in the OVW is going to match the TPI, so he goes after something else the IWA is known for, violence, and disrespects the company there.

 

Lemme say this Jim: I'd rather plunk down the money and go sit among the rats and rednecks in that Indiana warehouse then go to your monster factory and watch the steroid freaks who's job will be to provide visual lubricant to Jim Ross in the future.

 

When you're training people down there Jim, do you tell them that even once they make it to the big leagues, that the odds of them, after expenses, making LESS then that person who is trying to pay medical bills on a $50 paycheck is rather high? That the odds of them being successful depends less on actual wrestling ability, but on just how large their pecs and biceps are, and how well they kiss the ass of Vince, his daughter, and his son-in-law? That their mere presence in the locker room will upset one of the so-called "leaders" so much, that the "leader" will insist on publically ruining any hope for their career at all? Or do you just sit back, tell them to work the arm, that it's telling a story, and ignore the fact that the Indiana warehouse is producing better shit then you?

 

Whattya do Jim?

[LucharesuFan619 0]

I think he's being WAY too harsh. For every IWA-MS death match, there are three or four *** wrestling matches. Why doesn't he just base his ratings on XPW and CZW and BJPW and call it shit wrestling just because they have some blood? I respect the guy, but he's really whacked out to be saying this crap. Cornette needs to realize that IWA-MS is ran by Ian Rotten, who is one of the best workers in the world. Sure, stereotype him based on his ECW work ten years ago and assume he hasn't gotten more talented as a wrestler. He damn sure has and Cornette is being ignorant to that fact.

[Guest Jimmy Saint]

I really like both feds so I am gonna sit on the fence here. They both each have there good points and bad points.

 

 

Jim is more angry at the fact that the deathmatch side of IWA gets on the local news and gives wrestling bad press in the area. They have some great wrestlers there as mentioned above and also some great brawlers. I doubt Jim Cornette has ever watched any of the good matches from there as he just see the whole thing as a garbage fed [which if you have seen any of his shoots you know he can't stand them].

 

 

But sandman OVW has some awesome workers such as Dinsmore, Conway, Jeter and have put on some great matches in the past. They have also given the WWE Brock Lesner, John Cena, Shelton Benjamin etc who have gone onto sucess. Its not all talentless roid heads who he sends up and gets sent to have to train most of the time.

[Guest Sturgis]

Nevermortal where did you get this from?

[Guest Nevermortal]

Nevermortal where did you get this from?

http://www.leoweekly.com/archives/071603/erosia.shtml

[Guest TonyJaymzV1]

This is the stigma that deathmatches give a federation. No matter how many good matches they have, they will always have that "garbage wrestling shit" stigma.

 

I'm with Cornette on the deathmatch. I think their dumb, stupid fucked up train wrecks, were guys bleed, which isn't wrestling. But different strokes for different folks, right?

 

What Cornenette has to know is that a hardcore match can be great wrestling (see Raven vs. CM Punk from ROH).

 

I'm guessing Jim hasn't watched a tape of IWA:MS, because they generally have 1-3 hardcore/garbage matches and the rest are straight up matches

[Guest Youth N Asia]

I agree and disagree with Jim. First off I'm a huge Corny fan.

 

I'm completly with him about these over the top hardcore matches that are nothing more then worthless bloodbaths. But his blinding hatred for Ian had probably kept him from IWAs best work from 2001 to now. Sure they have the blood and shit matches, but there's been some great wrestling there in the last few years. But it did take them way too long to add "wrestling" to their blood shows

[Guest Nevermortal]

I like deathmatches when they are properly worked.

 

Shit like Onita's deathmatches and most of the stuff from The KOTDM '95 tournament is pure crap.

 

But when you get some decent workers in there like Mondo, Bailey, Messiah, etc, they can be entertaining, and very very violent.

 

However too many deathmatches is a bad thing and this is why CZW is 'blowing their wad' by having a Deathmatch tournament and a few scattered deathmatches over the summer. For a half year, people have been salivating for their blood and finally, its going to happen. And once that's done, it'll get back to some good wrestling.

[Guest Phoenix Fury Legdrop]

Let me make it clear that I think Jim Cornette, when he's thinking straight, can be a genius. However, he's not thinking straight here.

 

Let me let you guys in on a history lesson here. Back in 1999, Ian ran a show at a National Guard Armory here in Indiana. They did some deathmatches, left some blood, and ultimately got wrestling banned from every single National Guard Armory in Indiana. That made it harder for Cornette to book regular shows in Indiana, since armories are basically one of the main three indy venues, along with gyms and fairground buildings/4-H grounds (more 4-H grounds than fairgrounds here in Indiana). Ever since that incident, Cornette's been spewing like a two-headed dragon about how Ian Rotten's the core of wrestling evil, how Ian Rotten's supposedly the human incarnation of Satan, so on and so forth.

 

I'm sure Jim hates deathmatches. However, I'm just as sure he hates not being able to provide revenue by booking armory shows. Jim probably has never seen an IWA show, and is going on what he's heard from local stories.

 

So, if anyone sees Cornette at ROH in Dayton, please hand him a copy of When Hero Met Punk, or the TPI, or any of the other recent great IWA-MS shows, and ask him to watch it. I'm sure he'll enjoy it, if he's truly into wrestling.

[Guest ConspiracyVictim]

Shit like Onita's deathmatches and most of the stuff from The KOTDM '95 tournament is pure crap.

 

Dont generalize all of Onita's DM. Actually he is one of the first guys to do it right and add the right amount of emotion to each match. Sure there was brutalization but the fans were into it and took EVERYTHING for what it was worth...not just a pop. One match that pops into mind is Onita v. Funk from 93, explosion match where the whole thing built until the explosion where Onita covered Funk (trying to shield him from the blast.) Just saying, dont generalize man.

 

Also, I dont have much to say about this. Most of it is Cornette spewing false information and just generalizing. Cornette is a brilliant guy, but so is Ian Rotten now. I see it much the way Cornette v. Paul E was. I dont take anything Cornette says with a grain of salt. Both guys talk too much but oh well, what can you do?

[Guest Billy_The_P]

As I originally posted on the Wrestling classics board for the same issue:

 

 

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Seeing as how I was a part of the IWA from it's inception until 1998, I do just want to add my two cents, and, let me also say that this is a level headed and fair response.

 

For starters, I'm going to contend some of Cornette's accusations.

1. Cornette says that OVW is more valid of a wrestling promotion than IWA because they are able to offer "quality" legit Wrestling stars such as Steve Austin and Chris Benoit. Well, it is decidedly much easier for him to present WWE stars at his show since they are working together in conjunction. He doesn't have to pay the WWE guys anything, because they are getting their contracted pay. Not a dime comes out of Cornette's pocket for them. Not to mention the fact that he is allowed to use WWE talent that is under contract while indy promotions such as the IWA usually are not. So in this case, it is easy to brag about what you can present when they are off limits to everyone else for the most part.

2. I can't count how many great pure wrestling matches I was present for between guys like the American Kickboxer and Tarek the Great, as well as a scientific 20 minute broadway classic between Tommy Gilbert and Dory Funk Jr. at the Eddie Gilbert Memorial brawl in 1997 down at the IWA. There have been many more since them with a lot of the best indie talent around such as CM Punk and Colt Cabana. Many matches from the IWA are getting the buzz as candidates for match of the year for the last few years. And it wasn't about hardcore. It was about wrestling.

3. Jim talks about the Kentucky state commission barring the use of any weapons in matches, and that is why the IWA can't run in KY anymore. Is it my imagination, or aren't chairs, tables, ball bats, etc... considered weapons? OVW does use them. They haven't been banned. It's just that the IWA got reported by stooges for the former USWA promotion, and the KSAC was relentless on them. I know, I was there.

4. Jim talks about who will be paying the medical bills for the workers who get injured in the IWA. Again, I digress that workers get hurt, whether it is via barbed wire, or some freak accident like slipping off of a rope and falling on your head. That could happen to anybody, anywhere. It is no fault of the IWA's that they haven't been a multi-million dollar company for almost 50 years that is able to secure insurance for it's 6 or 7 digit figure workers like the WWE is, a policy that they are able to hand down to it's subsidiaries such as the OVW. Besides, wrestlers are aware that they are putting themselves at risk every time they step into the ring, whether it is a hardcore match or not. Nobody twists their arms to do it. It is up to the individual to decide whether that is the right decision for them, like it or not. Every man, woman and child that dreams of being a wrestler knows that there could be a price to pay for fame. Jim, you paid some of those prices too, albeit maybe not the same as Ian Rotten.

5. I don't think it is fair to say that Ian Rotten is merely preying on vulnerable and dim-witted young people that want to become wrestlers. Ian Rotten does not train anybody to be thrown into barbed wire or lightbulbs. He trains them to wrestle. I know. I was there many, many nights, and nobody ever told me that they were going to throw me into barbed wire whether I liked it or not. Never happened.

 

This being said, I do want to say that it doesn't neccessarily mean that I like all of the hardcore stuff, personally. A lot of it is too extreme for my tastes, because I was born, bred, and raised on Memphis wrestling, and that means I grew up on a healthy diet of Jimmy Hart and...ta-da!...Jim Cornette. 1980's Memphis will always be in my heart.

However, this is a new generation, and whether you like it or not, Jim, extreme is still in...and...classic style wrestling is too. That is the beauty of America. You can watch whatever you want to watch, and like whatever you like. That's just the way it is. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one, and I am not going to stoop low and say that Jim Cornette is an ******* , because he's not. He just has an opinion. That doesn't mean we have to agree, but everybody's opinion should be accounted for and respected. Jim, that means you should respect people's decision too whether they like the IWA or not.

So Jim, just let people choose to watch what they want. I am sure that many of the people that come to OVW shows attend IWA shows as well. Don't criticize people for their choices.

I have all the respect in the world for Jim, despite his ill-prepared statement on the IWA, but I just hope he remembers that these same guys that he is criticizing for hardcore wrestling *might*, just *might* end up being WWE superstars down the road. You never know.

 

Let it also be said that this was just an easy forum for Jim Cornette to garner some publicity for OVW. Self-promotion is king in Wrestling!

[Guest Retro Rob]

I said this in the WWE Folder and I'll say it again here. Cornette actually likes hardcore wrestling when done right and moderately. Pop in an SMW tape for proof of that. BUT all this deathmatch garbage is a black eye for professional wrestling. What do you see portrayed in the media more, jackasses lighting each other in fire in their backyards while wrestling, or actual wrestling matches?

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

I do agree with many of the points that Cornette makes. I like JC and his views and I fully understand that he is just looking out for wrestling in general. But I think the blame is being placed in the wrong direction. In Corny's rant, he talks about wrestling like this putting a "black eye" on the sport. But how about the newspapers reporting incorrectly on the topic? That's alright though? So there you have it, don't blame the wrestlers blame the news source that doesn't report things truthfully with facts and all the correct information.

[Guest Retro Rob]

But if there weren't any idiots running around with chainsaws and smashing lights in each other's faces, there would be nothing for the media to misinterpret. Everything is fine in moderation, and I think the federations Cornette is talking about do go over the line.

[Guest God Junior]

I don't understand why Cornette doesn't think garbage wrestling should be called 'pro wrestling'. All pro wrestling is is a choreographed pseudo-sport in which performers simulate competition for the purpose of entertaining a crowd. Whether the performance involves light tubes and barbed wire or not is irrelevant.

[Guest ConspiracyVictim]

Everything is fine in moderation, and I think the federations Cornette is talking about do go over the line.

 

1, 2 or sometimes no hardcore matches on each show of a company that runs every week is over the line, especially since the most hardcore thing that is usually on the show is a couple lightube shots (which is nothing compared to what used to happen just about every show). Cornette seriously needs some new tapes...

[Guest shlidgn90]

personally, i think jim cornette is right. there is a saying that one bad apple ruins the whole bunch. well, those three deathmatches on iwa shows will lump the whole promotion as an deathmatch company. by the way, all of the so called scientific workers over at iwa, would all give their left arm to wrestle for ovw. so dont think cornette is jealous of rotten.

[Guest Billy_The_P]

personally, i think jim cornette is right. there is a saying that one bad apple ruins the whole bunch. well, those three deathmatches on iwa shows will lump the whole promotion as an deathmatch company. by the way, all of the so called scientific workers over at iwa, would all give their left arm to wrestle for ovw. so dont think cornette is jealous of rotten.

I hardly think that JC is jealous of Ian. After all, Ian practically has to run his shows out of his own pocket, while Jim has some serious backing from the WWE. I hardly think that's an enviable situation for Cornette.

As for the scientific wrestlers wanting to work for OVW, well, I think that's a no-brainer. Who wouldn't want to work for a WWE affiliate and have direct exposure to the WWE offices? No matter what they may publicly or privately say about the WWE, any worker out there would be nuts not to want a spot on the WWE roster and have some guaranteed money to feed their families.

[Guest Retro Rob]

Everything is fine in moderation, and I think the federations Cornette is talking about do go over the line.

 

1, 2 or sometimes no hardcore matches on each show of a company that runs every week is over the line, especially since the most hardcore thing that is usually on the show is a couple lightube shots (which is nothing compared to what used to happen just about every show). Cornette seriously needs some new tapes...

Quality not quantity.

[Guest ConspiracyVictim]

Quality not quantity.

 

Well can you tell me how poor the quality of those deathmatches are nowadays? And just how many bad ones have they had in the last 3 months...cant think of any horrible out of control ones that would be any worse than anything happening in other indies at the moment. How about at the Revolution show...no Deathmatches there...The July 4th Show, one short deathmatch that I wouldnt even call a deathmatch because it was soo short, and that is out of 25 matches...

[Guest Retro Rob]

I didn't mean match quality, but more "quality" in the sense of things that they do within the deathmatches. You don't need to use a weedwhacker in 10 matches because as long as it is in one that is enough for the media and unexpecting fans to form opinions on.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

Someone asked RD about the Cornette/Ian deal over at Wrestlecrap, here was his reply.

 

-----------------------------------

 

RD: I try never to say anything bad about anyone in the industry personally, but since I don't consider Ian to be IN the business, I guess I can. Ian Rotten is about the most worthless excuse for a human being I have ever met. In fact, I always felt like I needed a bath after being around the guy. I had the displeasure of working with him on a few shows several years ago, and found him to be the most egotistical, arrogant, and self-deluded person I have ever met, not just within wrestling. Example - we went out to dinner after the show, and the waitress, a poor girl who couldn't have been more than 17, was having a hard time getting over to our table (it was Saturday night and the place was packed). He stood up in the middle of the place and screamed, "F*CK THIS PLACE! DON'T YOU KNOW WHO I AM?!" And I remember that everyone just looked at the guy, because NO ONE had a clue who the hell he was. But by God, he thought they did, because in his tiny little brain, he believed he was a world renown pro wrestler.

 

I also went to an IWA show to support a friend of mine, Mad Man Pondo, and Ian was involved in damn near every match. You think Raw is bad with Hunter? Or the McMahons hog SmackDown? Trust me, they have nothing on Ian. He would go out and make ths save or whatever after every match, then grab the mic and go on for what seemed like hours. My buddy Casey would elbow me, and say, "He's SHOOTING!" then we'd start laughing at how idiotic it all was. From that moment on, every time someone would try bullshitting us, our comment about it would be "He's shooting like Ian."

 

I am not a fan of garbage wrestling, and I never have been. When that shit (it's not even worthy of being called 'crap') is being promoted by the likes of Ian Rotten, it's even worse. What a dirt bag.

[Guest TonyJaymzV1]

I also went to an IWA show to support a friend of mine, Mad Man Pondo

 

I am not a fan of garbage wrestling, and I never have been. When that shit (it's not even worthy of being called 'crap') is being promoted by the likes of Ian Rotten, it's even worse. What a dirt bag.

...Has Pondo ever had a non=garbage wrestling match?

 

 

just asking...oh and while I'm not a fan of garbage wrestling, IWA:MS is my fav. promotion right now.

[Guest Deviant]

There is definately such a thing as a good hardcore, or ultraviolent, or deathmatch, but they are usually pretty rare. More often than not, cheap pops for an exploding light tube overshadows its meaning, impact and the match itself.

 

Those good matches are rare, but their exsistence doesn't stop me from thinking that broken glass etc aren't what I want to watch. They have an audience, I'm just not part of it. That's my choice, just like it is the choice of the guys in the deathmatches to participate or not. It's not as if they don't know what might happen if you are hit in the head with glass...

 

Just my opinion on it all.