Casualties of RO

[Guest Retro Rob]

At this point though I would move past the guys like RVD and Booker T because they have lost some much of the heat they once possessed. A similar thing happened in 1996-1998 when the company was transitioning to the Attitude Era. People will get lost in the shuffle, but I think the key to success is to introduce NEW stars that have not been squashed by HHH half a dozen times yet. The company needs to be rebuilt, and using guys like Cena, Orton, Benjamin, Haas and Lesnar is the way to do that. They all come with a clean slate. Something the guys from the last two years do not.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

At this point I would agree with you completely.

 

But let me tell you what happens next:

 

People are going to get sick of every single one of these guys and they will be left with nothing at all.

[Guest jester]

I think bps pretty much summed it all up there.

 

There is:

 

THE OLD GUARD: HHH, Taker, Nash, HBK

 

THE LOST GENERATION: Jericho, Benoit, etc.

 

THE NEW BLOOD: Cena, Orton, etc.

 

The Old Guard should be jobbing to the Lost Generation to make them the new stars of the promotion.

 

The New Blood should be fighting it out amongst themselves in the low to midcard to see who the fans take to.

 

Right now we have New Blood beating the Lost Generation, and then Old Guard beating everyone. Once in a blue moon the New Blood is allowed a heavily tainted win on the Old Guard. That is not how it should go.

[Guest Retro Rob]

At this point I would agree with you completely.

 

But let me tell you what happens next:

 

People are going to get sick of every single one of these guys and they will be left with nothing at all.

(For the sake of this example, I'm only going by Raw because they seem to be fucking up the most)

 

It seems to me like the fans are pretty much sick of everyone from HHH to Book to RVD to Nash, etc. The only established guys that have any consistent heat at this point are Jericho and well... Kane. Therefore, I would say to push these younger guys to moon, but not entirely shove them down our throats. By that I mean, don't the devote 4 segments on Raw to Randy Orton, but he should be building up a strong streak of wins.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I had a whole thing about the different era's in WWE history and exactly how long people have been hanging on for.

 

Here's what I see (in reverse):

 

Currently: The HHH era (for lack of a better name)

 

The lost era (2000-2001...where there was a weird mixing of the death of the Attitude era and the beginning of the HHH era...crap like Invasion)

 

The Attitude era (Austin, Rock, DX)

 

The New Generation (Bret, Kliq)

 

The old Generation (Hogan, Savage)

 

The pre Mania Era (Backlund, Graham)

 

The Bruno era.

 

 

Now these era's go much quicker now with TV...

 

But basically we can still see a guy like Hogan from 5! Era's ago trying to take the spotlight.

 

This is why things are screwed up. Vince keeps on pushing things from way out of date.

 

Some guys can cross era's very well. The Rock for example is still super fresh when he returns even though he was born out of the Attitude era.

 

The point is...name me one new star that came out of 2000-2001.

 

Angle is the only one I can find who isn't a JTTS (Jericho).

 

In retrospect they probably should have done things differently those two years.

[Guest Retro Rob]

I agree with you in the sense that so much potential was wasted and the old guard never got cycled out of the main events. BUT I just don't see the point in re-pushing a guy like Booker T now when they should have been sent to the top five or six months ago. I just think it's time to move forward.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Therefore, I would say to push these younger guys to moon, but not entirely shove them down our throats. By that I mean, don't the devote 4 segments on Raw to Randy Orton, but he should be building up a strong streak of wins.

Isn't he doing that already? How about Rodney Mack? No one gave a shit, aside from the proverbial gagging. It's quite impossible to push someone to the moon without there having a hard-sell. I haven't seen a recent example of it.

 

I understand your idealistic point of purging out everyone for the sake of the five wrestlers you mentioned, but look at one of Vengeance's featured matches: Cena-Taker. It pretty much exemplifies the argument. Does anyone really give Cena a chance to beat Taker without two forms of foreign objects and/or a run-in?

[Guest Retro Rob]

I understand your idealistic point of purging out everyone for the sake of the five wrestlers you mentioned, but look at one of Vengeance's featured matches: Cena-Taker. It pretty much exemplifies the argument. Does anyone really give Cena a chance to beat Taker without two forms of foreign objects and/or a run-in?

Sadly, the answer is no and that is something that needs to be changed. As for that actual match, I see Cena going over and then feuding with Angle, but that is just me.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Maybe Eddie and Benoit could grow their mullets back and become the lost boys!

[Guest Anglesault]

I agree with you in the sense that so much potential was wasted and the old guard never got cycled out of the main events. BUT I just don't see the point in re-pushing a guy like Booker T now when they should have been sent to the top five or six months ago. I just think it's time to move forward.

And moving forward involves pushing guys the fans simply don't care about for months until they finally do?

[Guest Retro Rob]

I agree with you in the sense that so much potential was wasted and the old guard never got cycled out of the main events.  BUT I just don't see the point in re-pushing a guy like Booker T now when they should have been sent to the top five or six months ago.  I just think it's time to move forward.

And moving forward involves pushing guys the fans simply don't care about for months until they finally do?

But who do the fans REALLY care about right now?

[Guest Big McLargeHuge]

I agree with you in the sense that so much potential was wasted and the old guard never got cycled out of the main events.  BUT I just don't see the point in re-pushing a guy like Booker T now when they should have been sent to the top five or six months ago.  I just think it's time to move forward.

And moving forward involves pushing guys the fans simply don't care about for months until they finally do?

But who do the fans REALLY care about right now?

No one. Because the Company has passsed up every opportunity to push one of the so-called Lost Generatioin when they showed any semblance of being able to be a top player in favor of proving to themselves and the IWC that they can get anyone over.

 

IT'S NOT WORKING!

[Guest Anglesault]

I agree with you in the sense that so much potential was wasted and the old guard never got cycled out of the main events.  BUT I just don't see the point in re-pushing a guy like Booker T now when they should have been sent to the top five or six months ago.  I just think it's time to move forward.

And moving forward involves pushing guys the fans simply don't care about for months until they finally do?

But who do the fans REALLY care about right now?

Everyone I can think of is on Smackdown.

 

The guys on Raw are the usual (RVD, Book, Jericho) of faces (Hurricane)

 

There are guys like Rico, roughly 8000 times more over than Orton, who just need to be toned down. (He is 41. Damn)

[Guest Retro Rob]

I agree with you in the sense that so much potential was wasted and the old guard never got cycled out of the main events.  BUT I just don't see the point in re-pushing a guy like Booker T now when they should have been sent to the top five or six months ago.  I just think it's time to move forward.

And moving forward involves pushing guys the fans simply don't care about for months until they finally do?

But who do the fans REALLY care about right now?

No one. Because the Company has passsed up every opportunity to push one of the so-called Lost Generatioin when they showed any semblance of being able to be a top player in favor of proving to themselves and the IWC that they can get anyone over.

 

IT'S NOT WORKING!

No one in the "lost generation" wasn't pushed because of one of the new younger guys. People like RVD and Book were simply soundly defeated by HHH and then shot down the card. Benoit was incredibly over in the begining of the year, but putting the title on him wouldn't have been right at the time. Jericho was wasted years ago. Right now the only member of this era that is at the point where they could be HUGE is Eddie Guerrero.

[Guest Retro Rob]

But who do the fans REALLY care about right now?

Everyone I can think of is on Smackdown.

 

The guys on Raw are the usual (RVD, Book, Jericho) of faces (Hurricane)

 

There are guys like Rico, roughly 8000 times more over than Orton, who just need to be toned down. (He is 41. Damn)

I wouldn't even say Booker is really over at this point. Ever since his title win over Christian and miserable defenses no one has cared. The mid-match Spinaroonie generated no reaction.

 

RVD seems to be hit or miss, but he's not at the level he was in 2001-2002. Take his match against HHH a few weeks ago, the crowd was dead for majority of it. Compare that to his matches against HHH in the fall of 2002.

 

Jericho is still very over as a heel. He was the only reason there was any heat at all in the match against Shawn on Monday. The problem is that with a heel champion, there is nowhere for Jericho to go.

 

The Hurricane generates a good pop, but could never been a legitimate contender in the main event scene. He is just too small.

 

Rico used to be more over than Orton. Unless they alter his gimmick a little (and take him off Heat), he would have lost most of the heat he had as a stylist.

 

Goldust has been off Raw for a while and was met with a large pop the other night, so I think it would be good to reintroduce him and push him to the upper midcard. Even Test has been drawing a good amount of heel heat lately.

[Guest Anglesault]

Even Test has been drawing a good amount of heel heat lately.

Are you drunk?

[Guest Retro Rob]

Even Test has been drawing a good amount of heel heat lately.

Are you drunk?

I knew you wouldn't like that one. Seriously though, go back and watch his matches from three weeks and two weeks ago. The crowd doesn't like someone who picks on Trish and Stacy, which he does, and thus get booed. Yeah it's cheap heat, but it's more than most of the wrestlers on Raw have.

[Guest CanadianChick]

Actually AS, Test has been getting good heat lately. Generally, those who hit women (who are not established faces) get a lot of heat.

 

And I know that some people are not getting the pops they used to, but I still think that with a PROPER push (no half ass pushes please), those people can still be very over.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Yeah, Test gets heat for hitting women. It's just as soon as he wrestles no-one gives a shit.

[Guest Anglesault]

Actually AS, Test has been getting good heat lately. Generally, those who hit women (who are not established faces) get a lot of heat.

 

And I know that some people are not getting the pops they used to, but I still think that with a PROPER push (no half ass pushes please), those people can still be very over.

I was shocked by the heat he got in the six man, But they were a hot crowd.

 

I was reassured by the total silence in the Booker match.

[Guest Retro Rob]

Actually AS, Test has been getting good heat lately. Generally, those who hit women (who are not established faces) get a lot of heat.

 

And I know that some people are not getting the pops they used to, but I still think that with a PROPER push (no half ass pushes please), those people can still be very over.

I was shocked by the heat he got in the six man, But they were a hot crowd.

 

I was reassured by the total silence in the Booker match.

One can also argue that the LA crowd was a dead crowd, which they were for everything that followed HHH-Goldberg.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

I wish Cena could get the push Randy is getting.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

I wish someone good would get the push.

[Guest Goodear]

People are overreacting to the Orton push way too heavy. Seriously, the guy hasn't beat anyone worth anything yet. So what if he beats Maven and Tommy Dreamer... who hasn't? All this complaining seems to be almost preemptive, since everyone here seems to have him being IC Champion while beating Shawn and Mick to death at the same time. He's just being pushed over the dregs that it wouldn't help a Jericho or RVD to beat anyway.

[Guest Anglesault]

Actually AS, Test has been getting good heat lately. Generally, those who hit women (who are not established faces) get a lot of heat.

 

And I know that some people are not getting the pops they used to, but I still think that with a PROPER push (no half ass pushes please), those people can still be very over.

I was shocked by the heat he got in the six man, But they were a hot crowd.

 

I was reassured by the total silence in the Booker match.

One can also argue that the LA crowd was a dead crowd, which they were for everything that followed HHH-Goldberg.

I don't think Test has earned the benefit of the doubt.

 

IMO, Those are just normal fans reacting to Test in the nomal.

[Guest Retro Rob]

Actually AS, Test has been getting good heat lately. Generally, those who hit women (who are not established faces) get a lot of heat.

 

And I know that some people are not getting the pops they used to, but I still think that with a PROPER push (no half ass pushes please), those people can still be very over.

I was shocked by the heat he got in the six man, But they were a hot crowd.

 

I was reassured by the total silence in the Booker match.

One can also argue that the LA crowd was a dead crowd, which they were for everything that followed HHH-Goldberg.

I don't think Test has earned the benefit of the doubt.

 

IMO, Those are just normal fans reacting to Test in the nomal.

Normal fans don't appreciate HBK vs. Jericho?

[Guest Coffey]

I still like Randy Orton. You can't deny that he has a look. You can argue what the look is, but he has something. He definitely has a lot of charisma. He has wrestling in his blood. He knows the business.

 

If he can avoid the injury bug from now on, I actually believe that he is the future of this company. He just seems to have all the tools.

 

If I was you, I'd get used to him, because he's probably going to be around for awhile.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Hurricane is to small to get a main event push....you know this size stuff is bullshit. Ok? The fans will buy someone small if they were given the proper push. Hell the fans don't care if someone is small. That is just a myth made up by the WWE to not push these guys. "Well he may be the most talented guy on the roster, and the fans may be into him and his matches hardcore, but.......he's just to small."

[Guest Retro Rob]

Hurricane is to small to get a main event push....you know this size stuff is bullshit. Ok? The fans will buy someone small if they were given the proper push. Hell the fans don't care if someone is small. That is just a myth made up by the WWE to not push these guys. "Well he may be the most talented guy on the roster, and the fans may be into him and his matches hardcore, but.......he's just to small."

I am a big fan of the Hurricane, but look at him, then look at HHH, Goldberg, and Kane.

[Guest CanadianChick]

Sure, the fans will get behind a small guy. But WWE has conditioned fans to think that the small guy can't win and if he does, it's a huge fluke. The only role a small guy can play is a the underdog role until more than one small guy in a blue moon is pushed.