Guest pappajacks Report post Posted April 1, 2002 Now that it seems that the cruserweight division will be back on track, I would like to see the Hardcore division revamped. I find it not extreme enough, especially during the last few months. With the new split, I hope we can have one true hardcore match per show. The hardcore division can be very entertaining if it's done properly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Downhome Report post Posted April 1, 2002 Now that Raven is the champion, I see the Hardocre Title become more than it has been, that being, simply a novelty item. If the WWF was smart, they'd book the title as some of an "ECW Hardcore" title, that would make me very happy. With MOST of the ECW talent on RAW, where the said title is present, it wouldn't be hard to do. I hope they go the way of more innovation, and less cluster-f*ck, that is the type of hardcore matches I like, and I think a Raven Vs. Tommy Dreamer is the first step towards potentially doing just this. So yeah... ...I see big things for this title, just like the Cruiserweight title. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cobainwasmurdered Report post Posted April 1, 2002 no i don't think the hardcore divison is going to be improving because well it's the wwf and they don't give a fuck about anything that doesn't involve mcmahons,hosses, or people fucking a mcmahon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Man in Blak Report post Posted April 1, 2002 I'm not getting my hopes up. Raven's been the HC champion before and it's not like his reign elevated it anywhere. It's just conclusive proof that hardcore matches are an area the Big Two should have kept their noses out of, as I don't think either fed took the title seriously. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted April 1, 2002 Absolutely! A resurrection of the Dreamer/Raven feud is exactly what the division needs to drag itself back up from the grave. As is being mooted, if they let Raven book the matches, it could be shit hot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Some Guy Report post Posted April 1, 2002 The only times I liked the HC division were when Raven and then when RVD were champs and that is more because I like them and not really because of HC matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest evenflowDDT Report post Posted April 1, 2002 Since I haven't been watching long enough to know otherwise, I've never seen the WWF Hardcore title as anything other than a garbage gimmick belt (although originally it wasn't, with Mankind, damn 24/7 rule). But, it has had some shreds of credibility in the past, and one of those stints was when it was held by none other than Raven (RVD as well, but he's onto Intercontinental and higher stuff now). I seem to remember a certain Raven v. Rhyno Hardcore Championship match at Backlash 2K1 that was pretty damn cool. Of course I'm biased because I'm a Raven mark, but putting the title on Raven instead of the TERRIBLE gimmick known as Maven was the first step to taking it beyond a garbage gimmick belt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Man in Blak Report post Posted April 1, 2002 I seem to remember a certain Raven v. Rhyno Hardcore Championship match at Backlash 2K1 that was pretty damn cool. Truth be told, that was the best hardcore match that I've ever seen in the Big Two - and it wasn't reduced to silliness like 24/7 and glass jars of marbles. The problem is that for every match like that, there's a WM X-Seven match that involves Kane chasing after Raven with a golf cart. I love that match and everything, but it doesn't really do a lot for the Hardcore title other than make it look like a total comedy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest El Satanico Report post Posted April 1, 2002 First of all the hardcore division will NEVER truly be "hardcore". It will always be the over used New Jack bring garbage to the ring hardcore that is now flat out boring. Secondly a Raven Dreamer feud won't do shit for the division except for when they are in ECW areas. The feud was terrible the last time it returned so what would make it any better this time. And besides Dreamer has no business being back in a ring and he would hold the matches down. Dreamer fans should be hoping he stays out of rings and stops screwing his back up. Could "hardcore" belt become a decent belt again? yes Will it be actual good hardcore? Don't hold your breath Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Will Scarlet Report post Posted April 1, 2002 I think it is improving, if only because I enjoy Raven, and his first reign was fun. Too bad he went back to jobber after they ended his "Evil Secret Ninja Girl" angle with Tori was brought to an abrupt end. It seems like with him, Dreamer, and a few others in that division, it should improve. I just hope they get rid of the 24-7 rule, if only because I am still confused how Dreamer-Raven on Metal was non-title, despite the 24-7 rule. Ah well. I just hope Raven has a long reign. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted April 1, 2002 Raven and Rhyno put on some great matches when they held the belt about a year ago. Their match at Backlash 2001 was one of the best things I saw last year. The division could be pretty good if they save the violent and brutal stuff for the ppv's so the novelty doesn't wear off like all the ladder matches did last year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted April 1, 2002 The Hard-Core division is a good place to stick all those former ECW guys. HC is a tough sell sense we have seen the same matches for so long. Maybe the ECW guys can put some life in it and bring out new hard-core matches. Keep the 24/7 rule it's always good for a laugh or surprise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RetroRob215 Report post Posted April 1, 2002 RVD did a great job in elevating the title, to make it seem important. Undertaker killed any heat the title got when he and the WWF forgot he had it. The whole Maven-Goldust-Al Snow thing was good because it added some variety after seeing the Undertaker with the belt for months. Raven was a great Hardcore champ and if anyone can save the division it would be him. They gotta kill the 24/7 rule though. At least for a few months. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMTapes Report post Posted April 1, 2002 How about 2 guys going out there and busting their asses for 20+..but only in the ring. There could be your odd charishot etc, but no shoping carts full of crap. I think it would make the title mean more and get it out of the 24/7 rut. No? Maybe I'm talkng out of my ass.. -Jim jmtapes.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kinetic Report post Posted April 1, 2002 I'll reserve judgment on any of the divisions until a few weeks into the split, but giving the Hardcore title to Raven is obviously an attempt to legitimize it as the division becomes a more integral part of the show. There's a lot they could do, given the talent they have on the roster. It's all a matter of commitment and how far they're willing to take things. In my opinion, the heyday of the Hardcore belt was early on in its existence--when Road Dogg held it and defended it every week in matches that were different than anything we'd seen on WWF TV up until that point. Then it became a hot potato and hasn't recovered since then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kahran Ramsus Report post Posted April 1, 2002 The only times I liked the HC division were when Raven and then when RVD were champs and that is more because I like them and not really because of HC matches. Rhyno was a good champ too, but he was from this same period so you probably just forgot to mention him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vyce Report post Posted April 1, 2002 I think it will probably be better than what it has been recently. But c'mon, the division's still pretty much a joke. I say let Heyman book it, and maybe he can pull something out of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest justcoz Report post Posted April 1, 2002 Hell, I wouldn't be against bringing back Road Dog because him an Raven were probably my favorite two hardcore champions. I think for the Hardcore Championship to be a pivotal part of Raw like they have planned they need to book the matches more in the vein of ECW matches. Like someone said, drop the hokey shopping cart full of props, aluminum garbage cans and fire extinguishers. 24-7 can still exist but use it sparringly for title changes and more for angle development to build to an actual hardcore title matches. Let the guys bust their ass, brawl, bring in chairs, weapons, thumb tacks, barbed wire, crowd fights, quality backstage and arena fights, etc. but mostly make it about brutality in the ring. You have a solid division. Raven, Bradshaw, Bubba Ray Dudley, Justin Credible, Tommy Dreamer, Spike Dudley and guys like Rhyno, Mike Awesome, Hugh Morris, etc. could easily find their way into the mix. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cataclysm911 Report post Posted April 1, 2002 I thought that the best hardcore matches in ECW were the ones that had original table spots. The first time that I saw an Awesome bomb over the top rope through a table I marked, as did I mark when Rhyno gored the Sandman through a table that was sitting upright in the corner. Taijiri did a double stomp off the top rope through a table, when no one thought that he was going to connect. Top rope moves are always good to get the crowd to say "ooh." Also, I think that blade jobs are in order to get the belt heading into the right direction. Raven has been there before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest saturnmark4life Report post Posted April 1, 2002 Raven and Rhyno put on some great matches when they held the belt about a year ago. Their match at Backlash 2001 was one of the best things I saw last year. The division could be pretty good if they save the violent and brutal stuff for the ppv's so the novelty doesn't wear off like all the ladder matches did last year. damn right. With booking influence and the right opponents raven can get some more mileage out of the HC belt yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BA_Baracus Report post Posted April 1, 2002 With Raven champ? Yes...it will definitely improve. I really liked his hardcore matches from about a year ago. Very imaginative. Not really blood and guts stuff...he just came up with all sorts of cool spots. All the crap they do with the trashcan lids and stuff was pretty much made up by Raven...except back when he did it, it was still fresh and fun to watch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DrEvil Report post Posted April 1, 2002 They can keep the 24/7 rule (Golddust's win was great, I would have prefered that he just put his hand on Maven for the pin rather than the weak punches but that's nitpicking, another great one was Christian's at WM), but it needs some fine tuning. It's too stupid to have the belt change hands 10 times over the course of one segment. Use the rule sparingly to give a heel a cheap win and to set up a fued for the face to get his "stolen" belt back. Make the matches more about stiff shots and backstage brawls than the gimmick weapons matches that they are now. Raven could elevate the belt if it's booked properly. The division is in place, it's in the hands of the writers and where they want to let it go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mystery Eskimo Report post Posted April 1, 2002 i think the 24/7 rule is pretty lame. The last few champs have been awful as well. Hopefully Raven will be a serious champ like RVD was and they won't give the belt to Crash, ever, ever again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest muzanisa Report post Posted April 1, 2002 Without the 24/7 rule it can be good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted April 1, 2002 I'll reserve judgment on any of the divisions until a few weeks into the split, but giving the Hardcore title to Raven is obviously an attempt to legitimize it as the division becomes a more integral part of the show. I'm not sure how you can say that since the WWF has failed to legitimize Raven at every turn since they signed him. They've yet to get him over as any kind of serious threat and have instead made him a continual jobber to the stars since he arrived. Where this translates to making a better hardcore division escapes me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest dreamer420 Report post Posted April 2, 2002 I liked what Raven did with the Hardcore Title back in February with Rhyno. Hopefully he can repair the damage that the Undertaker, Maven, and Goldust have done to the title recently. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites