Guest The Metal Maniac Report post Posted July 31, 2003 Yeah, everybody (well, MTV) says Fred Durst and Limp Bizkit "made" rap-rock but Anthrax had more to do with the maturation of the style than anyone Oh, come on man! You can't blame all this crap on Anthrax! They deserve better, dammit! But I'm curious...why do you think they had a lot to do with the maturation of the style? That just seems like an odd way to put it, since all I can recall Anthrax doing as far as rap/rock is concerned was some bizarre comedy rap stuff ("I'm The Man") and of course, "Bring the Noise" with PE. While I won't deny that they had a hand in helping create the genre (along with others) I don't see how they helped it "mature" too much, unless I'm totally forgetting something. And for the record, I think that Suicidal Tendencies deserves more credit for rap/rock then they get - no one ever seems to mention them, but it seems to me that Muir was doing a bit of rapping now and again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rendclaw 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2003 Not as much as he was rambling. I remember seeing ST in Florida and after the show he's trying to sell his stuff and some loudmouth prick was pissed and bitching indirectly at Mike because ST didn;t play certain songs. (I was annoyed that they didn;t play You Can't Bring Me Down, but not enough to yell at the top of my lungs how the show sucked..) Run-DMC started the whole thing by bringing a true rock guitarist to play on their first two albums, then it went to Walk This Way with Aerosmith, then it was Anthrax with I'm The Man, which remains a *classic* to this day. I saw an STP live video on public TV of all places, and it kicked ass. Trippin on a Hole in a Paper Heart is my favorite STP song, and to see them do it live floored me. Regardless of that... Alice in Chains > Pearl Jam > Soundgarden > STP > Nirvana (even though they were all revolutionary, perhaps too much so, since I can never forgive the grunge generation for killing metal) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Metal Maniac Report post Posted July 31, 2003 So talking to a beat in rhyme isn't rapping? I've been mis-informed. And, uh, you didn't really answer my question - you just pointed out stuff that I already knew anyway. Why did you say that Anthrax helped the genre mature? And as far as grundge "killing" metal...it got rid of the glam metal. There was a problem with that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rendclaw 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2003 So talking to a beat in rhyme isn't rapping? I've been mis-informed. And, uh, you didn't really answer my question - you just pointed out stuff that I already knew anyway. Why did you say that Anthrax helped the genre mature? And as far as grundge "killing" metal...it got rid of the glam metal. There was a problem with that? I can't call what Mike Muir does/did rapping... He talked because he couldn;t sing. That's just the way I see it. I say Anthrax did their share because Rock/Rap was still something of a novelty, even though Run-DMC and Aerosmith got a lot of mileage and money from Walk This Way. I'm The Man really turned some heads when it came out (even though it was done as more of a joke than anything) and then it was taken another step further when Anthrax/Public Enemy did Bring the Noise. Chuck D and Scott Ian both said the shows they did during that time were prolific in several ways (thanks to behind the music's interview on Anthrax) My problem is when grunge hit the mainstream circa 1988-90, it killed ALL kinds of metal. By 1992-93, with the exception of Metallica, who had the commerical success with the Black Album and was touring constantly in support of it, metal was on its way out.... I remember seeing Megadeth in 1994-95 and Dave himself said it in between songs. *Remembers that show* yeah that was a pretty good show, aside from the Middle Eastern guy trying to feel up my then fiancee... and Korn getting SOUNDLY booed by the diehard metalheads... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Metal Maniac Report post Posted July 31, 2003 Yeah, I see what you're saying - I just think you used a poor choice of words at first. You made it seem like it was Anthrax who made rap/rock what it is TODAY, when that's not really true. Sure, they were there at the start, but what we've got today is a far cry from that, I think... it killed ALL kinds of metal. Really? Is that why bands like Iron Maiden, Slayer, Anthrax, Metallica, and a slew of others who existed BEFORE grundge still exist today? Hell, even WASP was doing new stuff not too long ago, if I recall. It's not fair to say that they killed all kinds of metal. They took over the top spot on the charts, really. Metal just went back into the shadows and stayed there. Did some bands die off as a result? Yes, SOME did. But you can't tell me that ANYTHING killed a whole genre of music that still exists to this day, with many of it's innovators still out there. I won't debate that grundge pushed metal out of the mainstream. But to say they KILLED it? That's another story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rendclaw 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2003 Again, its a matter of words... by it being pushed out of the mainstream and seeing some bands trying to change with the times too much rather than changing a little while sticking to what got them where they were, by seeing a good portion of the younger metal fans start wearing flannels and acting all angtsy and depressed to be "cool", that's why I say that metal was "killed". In effect I'm in agreement, but it was pushed WAY down IMO. As for the bands of mention, with the exception of Metallica, Most of the bigger bands of the 80s and 90s barely get a sniff of selling out 20,000 seat arenas like they used to... Maiden for example can sell out 100,000 almost anywhere in the world EXCEPT our fickle-ass music fans here in the states, where they can get maybe 10,000, possibly 15,000. heh, funny thing is that Biohazard did a lot for the rap/metal genre in the early to mid 90s and they barely get a mention anyplace. Ice T's Body Count did a hell of a lot until the right-wing bullshit witch hunt surrounding Cop Killer.... quite a few artists had a lot to do with influencing a Fred Durst... he'll just never mention give them props in an interview. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Agent of Oblivion Report post Posted July 31, 2003 Body Count is what really gave birth to the genre, I think. Sure, you've got Run DMC and Aerosmith doing the whole rock meets rap thing, but to me, that's more 2 famous bands doing a collaboration, combining fans to get more attention. The problem was, it worked too well, and everyone went nuts. More of a pop success, it didn't really do anything to forward rap or rock in general. Rap was already getting things going, and rock had been around for almost 30 years at that point. Total novelty song, for the time. Anyway, Body Count got them the bad press that heavy metal and rock 'n roll in general THRIVES on. What would the genre be without Jagger being called a satanist, and Ozzy making kids kill themselves, let's not forget Led Zeppelin's involvement with the occult, and debauchery involving aquatic predators. That huge glorious stink gave them boatloads of free press, mixing genres when both rap and metal were starting to move. Angry music and angry fans meets pop exposure and news exposure. THAT did more for rap/rock hybrids than any beloved MTV and radio chestnut. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest saturnmark4life Report post Posted July 31, 2003 Soundgarden > Pearl jam. Thankyou. Fuck, I don't mind going Soundgarden > Nirvana... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest redbaron51 Report post Posted July 31, 2003 no durts=better music to headbang. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AndrewTS Report post Posted July 31, 2003 Grunge didn't kill metal, but it kicked it out of the mainstream and did kill off a lot of the glam stuff like Poison. And metal is still big worldwide, so that statement only really applies to the U.S. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Plushy Al Logan Report post Posted July 31, 2003 Grunge didn't kill metal, but it kicked it out of the mainstream and did kill off a lot of the glam stuff like Poison. And metal is still big worldwide, so that statement only really applies to the U.S. Elvis Presley>Poison>Whitesnake>Winger>Cinderella>Bon Jovi>Metallica>A bunch of other stuff>Grunge>Limp Bizkit>The Beatles Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rendclaw 0 Report post Posted August 1, 2003 I'm just glad a band like Maiden still has its worldwide success to draw on.... its times like this I wish I lived in England and could catch a Maiden show Wednesday.... ::sighs:: I agree Body Count did get the ball rolling faster, and harder.... it still pisses me off to this day that the ultra right-wing got all over Ice T for that song. On a distantly related topic, Living Colour was living proof that even Mick Jagger couldn't stop racism. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FeArHaVoC Report post Posted August 1, 2003 On a distantly related topic, Living Colour was living proof that even Mick Jagger couldn't stop racism. I'm a little lost on that comment? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
