ok on a show of hands or whatever.

[Guest Trivia247]

Um I did like it, so its not like Im saying i didn't.... And I thought it was rather cool that RVD manage to bust out his Original ECW finisher to beat Jericho, but it seems our friendly neighborhood Scott Keith was just unimpressed and thought it took....WAY too long... paraphrasing of course..

 

seem to complain more about RVD vs Kane than to really objectly talk about the match.

 

So to everyone else here who watched the match, what did you think about it?

[Guest bob_barron]

I thought it was pretty boring.

 

The 8 gazillion rollups started to piss me off towards the end- as did Jericho jobbing to the split legged moonsault

[Guest CronoT]

The surprise of RVD actually going over clean was enough to give it **1/2 to *** for me.

 

RVD is doing much better in the selling dept. now, and his melancholy ring action is appearently gone. If he goes over Kane at SS, that would most likely put him right back into the World Title hunt.

[Detective Comics 0]

I was torn between being bored and surprised, I thought it would have gone shorter but they had a few good spots in there. The ending itself was disappointing. It reminded me of a backyard wrestling match, though. So that probably isn't a good sign.

[Guest NoCalMike]

Match was good. Could be better. I didn't like the slowed-down style, but shit, what else was better then that match on Raw?

[Guest jester]

I thought the match was decent. I was a little surprised to see it happen, and have RVD win mostly clean (as Jericho pointed out, Nash had beatn him earlier), but hey. Far more offensive things happened tonight.

[Guest Coffey]

Why would you not think that RVD was going over? He has a PPV singles match with Kane.

 

I'm pretty harsh on my rating scale. Not because I hate giving out little snowflakes, but because I rarely want to give out 4 or 5 stars because I like to save them for great matches that don't have mistakes in them. Just look at my Vengeance ratings. Jericho/RVD did not break ***, let me just say that. I don't even know what I would give it. I wasn't impressed at all.

[iggymcfly 0]

I thought it was a good fun match, if not a great one. Probably about three stars or three and a quarter. Also, it's about time that someone got pinned off the split-legged moonsault. He's done it plenty of times in the WWE, he just never wins a match with it. I would like to know why they always have to go to Jericho when they need a new creative way for somebody to job, however. They always have to keep him toward the top of the card because they don't have anyone else that can entertain as well both in the ring and on the mic, but yet they never let him get any wins.

 

I mean, I'm about as far from being a smark as you can get. I like HHH, and I think the younger talent gets overpushed not underpushed, but it's still pretty obvious that Jericho gets held down like a motherfucker. Give Y2J a break.

[Guest godthedog]

i thought it was a dandy little tv match, & aside from the couple flubs i don't see what was wrong with it. hell, i thought it was faster-paced than their KoR match. SK's on crack anyway, the women's match (as short as it was) contained some of the best wwf women's wrestling EVER and he still didn't give a shit.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

It was better than every other match on the show by a mile.

 

That doesn't say much...but it says enough.

[Guest papacita]

I dunno...maybe it was because I was a little distracted during the match, but it came off kinda flat to me. Not bad or anything...it was just there. Also, I would've prefered Jericho going over, but I won't complain because I thought the ending was cool.

[Guest jester]

Why would you not think that RVD was going over? He has a PPV singles match with Kane.

Actually, to be honest I thought neither Jericho or RVD could really afford a loss. I thought for sure it was going to end in a schmozz. But they ended up covering for Jericho with the Nash beatdown excuse. Shrug.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

RVD might have a singles match but Jericho lost this match minutes after finding out he was main eventing that show.

 

If Jericho goes over Nash in the end then I won't complain that the jobs he did during the Nash feud were to RVD.

[Guest HeelSection1]

Definitely the best thing tonight. I didn't like the finish at all though. It was nice to see him go over clean, but not with a move that everybody has kicked out of since he got to WWE. And it is true that RVD has a big match with Kane at the PPV, but Jericho has a big match as well. So hard to say who "should" go over.

[Guest JaKyL25]

I LOVED the match for a free-TV match, and think it was even better than their KotR match last year, and possibly better than their Unforgiven '01 match. I give it at least ***, maybe ***1/2.

 

Keith is completely fucking insane in this case. *1/2? PLEASE. This match would have fit right into an above-average SmackDown and not looked out of place.

 

Best Raw match since at LEAST Flair vs. HHH, maybe Benoit vs. RVD.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I thought it was a good fun match, if not a great one. Probably about three stars or three and a quarter. Also, it's about time that someone got pinned off the split-legged moonsault. He's done it plenty of times in the WWE, he just never wins a match with it. I would like to know why they always have to go to Jericho when they need a new creative way for somebody to job, however. They always have to keep him toward the top of the card because they don't have anyone else that can entertain as well both in the ring and on the mic, but yet they never let him get any wins.

 

I mean, I'm about as far from being a smark as you can get. I like HHH, and I think the younger talent gets overpushed not underpushed, but it's still pretty obvious that Jericho gets held down like a motherfucker. Give Y2J a break.

How exactly are the young talent overpushed?

 

I can see that with Orton, but other than that who is overpushed out of the Young Talent?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

No way it was better than their KOTR match.

[Guest JHawk]

That reminded me of the Eddy-Tajiri match from Smackdown. Nothing actively bad but fell short for some reason. I didnt really get into it until about the seven minute mark where they started doing the false finishes

[Guest JaKyL25]

No way it was better than their KOTR match.

Maybe I was just in a markish state of mind after being COMPLETELY thrown off by the announcement of the new Summerslam Main event (I love it when a wrestling program surprises me that much no matter what it is) that I was just really into it, but after a few minutes I was literally buying EVERY cover as the possible finish. I don't remember any resting whatsoever, and it just kept going with more and more false finishes to me. I loved it.

 

KotR '02, while it was the best match of the night there too (which again ain't saying much), seemed really lethargic to me, like RVD was really slow that night. I dunno, I just never really got into it, enough so that Molly vs. Trish was like 1/4* away from tying it for MotN for me with the like 6 minutes or whatever they got.

 

What DID kinda piss me off was the billing of Shane vs. Eric all night as a "PPV match for free right here on Raw!" when this is just given "another Raw semi-main event match" treatment. Regardless of how the match ended up, shouldn't THIS be billed as a PPV-calibur match as well?

[iggymcfly 0]

I thought it was a good fun match, if not a great one. Probably about three stars or three and a quarter. Also, it's about time that someone got pinned off the split-legged moonsault. He's done it plenty of times in the WWE, he just never wins a match with it. I would like to know why they always have to go to Jericho when they need a new creative way for somebody to job, however. They always have to keep him toward the top of the card because they don't have anyone else that can entertain as well both in the ring and on the mic, but yet they never let him get any wins.

 

I mean, I'm about as far from being a smark as you can get. I like HHH, and I think the younger talent gets overpushed not underpushed, but it's still pretty obvious that Jericho gets held down like a motherfucker. Give Y2J a break.

How exactly are the young talent overpushed?

 

I can see that with Orton, but other than that who is overpushed out of the Young Talent?

Brock Lesnar debuts in April 2002. Brock Lesnar wins KOR in June 2002. Brock Lesnar wins the title in August 2002.

 

John Cena debuts in July 2002. John Cena beats Chris Jericho in July 2002. John Cena is main eventing a PPV in April 2003.

 

Randy Orton debuts in mid-2002. Randy Orton gets injured, misses a ton of time. Randy Orton main events a PPV in August 2003.

 

Renee Dupree debuts at the age of 22 in April or May 2003. Renee Dupree beats Kane in June 2003. Renee Dupree becomes a tag team champion in June 2003.

 

There's a few just off the top of my head.

[Guest JHawk]

They should all be billed as PPV caliber matches, really.

 

But how in the fuck can anything with Eric Bischoff in it be considered "PPV caliber"?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I agree.

 

There is NO Buildup for these guys, at least none that sticks.

 

Outside of Cena NONE of these guys got OVER before they were given gold or Main Event slots.

 

Brock was pitifully unover as a heel (or any heat for that matter) UNTIL THE DAY OF SUMMERSLAM...when he was getting the opposite from the heat he was supposed to get.

[Guest papacita]

One thing I did like about the match was the element of unpredictability. Rob finishing with the split-leg caught me off guard, and it's also nice having two established stars fight without the ending being a foregone conclusion. From a mark's standpoint, it really did seem like it could've gone either way.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Yeah some younger talent gets overpushed, but notice everyone, but the Frenchies and Orton on that list is on Smackdown.

 

Last time I checked most of the complaining about young stars not being made is about RAW not Smackdown.

 

There aren't any new stars being made on RAW.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Orton is on RAW...and due to being injury prone is probably the worst offender.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Yeah I edited that after I realized I left him off.

[Guest CanadianChick]

I personally liked the match. It was pretty good live, and still good when I watched it on TV just a little while ago. Keith's on crack.

[iggymcfly 0]

Well two from Raw and two from Smackdown doesn't really prove anything, but the only reason people bitch about Raw is because HHH has had a long title reign. Back about a year ago, everyone was saying that there needed to be more long, solid, title reigns, and now they're all pissed because HHH has had the belt for seven months. I can't think of any young, over, talent on Raw that's getting held down.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Long title reigns from people who deserve it yes.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Okay I guess the real problem should be that the young talent that they are pushing with the exception of maybe Brock and Cena, suck and don't really deserve the push.

 

Doesn't mean that there aren't young stars who are being underutilized. Think of all the cruiserweights.