ok on a show of hands or whatever.

[Guest CanadianChick]

I have to say this about Triple H's title reign: It would be a lot worse on Smackdown. How many people that HHH has faced this year can you honestly say that would have been a better champ than HHH? The only people I would really want champ are RVD and Jericho, but that doesn't look to be happening anytime soon, does it?

[LaParkaYourCar]

Of course who has made it that way?

 

Yeah nobody looks like a credible champ on RAW anymore so basically HHH has succeeded and now we can't find anyone who would make a better champ because no one looks credible anymore.

[Guest JHawk]

Well two from Raw and two from Smackdown doesn't really prove anything, but the only reason people bitch about Raw is because HHH has had a long title reign. Back about a year ago, everyone was saying that there needed to be more long, solid, title reigns, and now they're all pissed because HHH has had the belt for seven months. I can't think of any young, over, talent on Raw that's getting held down.

If Triple H was putting on good matches for seven months (and was staying healthy doing it), the backlash wouldn't be nearly as bad. Nobody would have bitched had HHH's title reign in 2000 gone until, say, September or so when his good matches were beginning to come further apart.

 

This is why people want to see Angle or Eddy get a long reign. Constant good matches provided they don't get any defenses against Mabel-esque opponents.

[Guest Choken One]

I liked the match and gave it *** on the FREE TV SCALE

[iggymcfly]

Okay I guess the real problem should be that the young talent that they are pushing with the exception of maybe Brock and Cena, suck and don't really deserve the push.

 

Doesn't mean that there aren't young stars who are being underutilized. Think of all the cruiserweights.

Well, as you so aptly pointed out, almost all the accusations of people being held down are on Raw, and with the exception of the overpushed Hurricane, none of the cruiserweights appear on that show.

 

And the problem isn't just that they suck either. It's that the WWE can't be patient enough to wait until people are ready before pushing them into the main event slot looking for a quick fix.

 

Look at Brock and Cena. Sure, they're good and they're over now. But wouldn't their moving up be more meaningful if the WWE had waited until they got over first? Cena beat Jericho when his gimmick was wearing the same colored trunks as the local sports team, and he wasn't over at all yet when he faced Brock at Backlash. I was just looking at an old video from the night he faced Benoit to win the #1 contendership, and he just wasn't there yet. He didn't have his look down, (goofy white clothes instead of throwback jerseys,) and he was just starting to give out Thuganomics on a weekly basis. The match with Taker should have been a full level or two before he challenges for the title in a PPV main event.

 

And how about Brock? He went from having to cheat to beat Bubba Dudley to beating The Rock clean in about two months. And now that he's had two long reigns at the top, where is there for him to go now, other than down. I guess he hasn't been Raw champion, but there's really not much room to grow when you've spent half of your career as the WWE champion.

[iggymcfly]

Well two from Raw and two from Smackdown doesn't really prove anything, but the only reason people bitch about Raw is because HHH has had a long title reign. Back about a year ago, everyone was saying that there needed to be more long, solid, title reigns, and now they're all pissed because HHH has had the belt for seven months. I can't think of any young, over, talent on Raw that's getting held down.

If Triple H was putting on good matches for seven months (and was staying healthy doing it), the backlash wouldn't be nearly as bad. Nobody would have bitched had HHH's title reign in 2000 gone until, say, September or so when his good matches were beginning to come further apart.

 

This is why people want to see Angle or Eddy get a long reign. Constant good matches provided they don't get any defenses against Mabel-esque opponents.

Mabel-esque opponents like say Steiner with two years of ring rust or Nash with... two years of ring rust. You just can't have a good match with those opponents. He did have a five star match with HBK at Summerslam last year, and a pretty good match with him at Armageddon. Even his Raw match with RVD would have been good if Rob had any idea how to sell.

 

Sure, HHH isn't at his very top form, but if he's got good opponents, he can still pull off very good matches.

[LaParkaYourCar]

Okay I guess the real problem should be that the young talent that they are pushing with the exception of maybe Brock and Cena, suck and don't really deserve the push.

 

Doesn't mean that there aren't young stars who are being underutilized.  Think of all the cruiserweights.

Well, as you so aptly pointed out, almost all the accusations of people being held down are on Raw, and with the exception of the overpushed Hurricane, none of the cruiserweights appear on that show.

 

And the problem isn't just that they suck either. It's that the WWE can't be patient enough to wait until people are ready before pushing them into the main event slot looking for a quick fix.

 

Look at Brock and Cena. Sure, they're good and they're over now. But wouldn't their moving up be more meaningful if the WWE had waited until they got over first? Cena beat Jericho when his gimmick was wearing the same colored trunks as the local sports team, and he wasn't over at all yet when he faced Brock at Backlash. I was just looking at an old video from the night he faced Benoit to win the #1 contendership, and he just wasn't there yet. He didn't have his look down, (goofy white clothes instead of throwback jerseys,) and he was just starting to give out Thuganomics on a weekly basis. The match with Taker should have been a full level or two before he challenges for the title in a PPV main event.

 

And how about Brock? He went from having to cheat to beat Bubba Dudley to beating The Rock clean in about two months. And now that he's had two long reigns at the top, where is there for him to go now, other than down. I guess he hasn't been Raw champion, but there's really not much room to grow when you've spent half of your career as the WWE champion.

Yeah I wouldn't say any one person was "holding down" the cruiserweights. That's just a matter of not being used properly.

 

But I'd beg to differ on Orton. I think he just sucks personally and I haven't exactly been impressed with the La Resistance either.

[Guest JRE]

I'm glad the WWE had the balls to give RVD the clean win over Jericho. I'm glad they had the brains to book Jericho being powerbombed before the match, and for jericho to blame the loss on it. And I'm glad Jericho lost to a nonfinishing move (very refreshing, and still nondegrading)...and that move wasn't a small package. The match was good, and I'm quite pleased

[Guest Choken One]

I'm glad the WWE had the balls to give RVD the clean win over Jericho. I'm glad they had the brains to book Jericho being powerbombed before the match, and for jericho to blame the loss on it. And I'm glad Jericho lost to a nonfinishing move (very refreshing, and still nondegrading)...and that move wasn't a small package. The match was good, and I'm quite pleased

Yet...

 

 

RVD loses to a DDT on a Steel Ramp...everyone complains for days...

[Guest Coffey]

RVD might have a singles match but Jericho lost this match minutes after finding out he was main eventing that show.

Right, but Jericho will be protected by a gimmick at the PPV. The commentators could play up his "stamina" or he could come out of one of the chambers late and they could play up his "freshness."

 

Rob just has to face Kane in a singles match so far. Nothing is going to save him there. At least that's the way I see it.

 

I'm thinking that Jericho lost tonight to help put RVD over going into the PPV (obviously) but the way the WWE works, he'll either get his win back by going over Nash, or he'll lose to Nash (losing his hair) and then win at SS as the "surprise" winner again (to make up for his haircut) and he will get another abomination of a run as the champion.

 

The thing about RAW that pissed me off the most was when Lawler kept saying that "Shane McMahon Vs. Eric Bischoff is a DREAM MATCH! I've been waiting to see this for YEARS!"

 

What the fuck?

Edited August 5, 2003 by Mr. Jag0

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

and with the exception of the overpushed Hurricane

How, exactly, is Hurricane "overpushed"? He's not on Raw w/ any regularity, and when he is, he's usually jobbing. With the exception of those few weeks w/ Rock, he's done nothing of note.

 

As for RVD/Jericho, I thought it was pretty "blah" overall. A few nice spots, but for some reason it didn't click w/ me.

 

And I *HATE* how RVD runs into the turnbuckle back-first. He practically stops, then eases his way in. Very distracting.

[Guest cabbageboy]

The Jericho/RVD match was decent last night and had some good near falls. I was surprised to see RVD actually HIT the split leg for once and also get a win with it. Last time he won with that move was when he first beat Sabu, haha.

 

I did find that booking strange though. Jericho is now main eventing SS yet jobs clean to what is essentially an RVD transition move?

 

But no, it wasn't as good as either of their PPV matches. Now that I think of it, RVD smacked Jericho in those too. He's kicked Jericho's ass about as many times as HHH has.

[Guest JRE]

I'm glad the WWE had the balls to give RVD the clean win over Jericho.  I'm glad they had the brains to book Jericho being powerbombed before the match, and for jericho to blame the loss on it.  And I'm glad Jericho lost to a nonfinishing move (very refreshing, and still nondegrading)...and that move wasn't a small package.  The match was good, and I'm quite pleased

Yet...

 

 

RVD loses to a DDT on a Steel Ramp...everyone complains for days...

...But I accepted it with open arms

[Guest humongous2002]

RVD and Y2J had a pretty good WWE style match, and i'm glad that Rob went over b/c he needs to look strong for his big match against Kane. Scott Keith is just bitter because his dreams of being teabagged by Benoit hasn't come true yet.