The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 He's not horrible when it comes to working for the crowd...quite the opposite. He's horrible at workrate type working... but that only matters to people like us Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoCalMike 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 I wouldn't say his workrate is horrible. His selling is pretty horrible, but overall workrate I would not say is "horrible" in the least. And since when does being a horrible worker matter in the WWE anyway? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dmann2000 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 I'm still not understanding how the "he's over!" argument should make me or indeed anyone else who dislikes shitty workers want to support an RVD title run. Triple H is over after a fashion and Taker and Hogan were and are still both extremely over. However, that doesn't mean I want to see them at the top of the card. Why? Because, barring Taker's recent rather random ability to start having decent brawls again, these men are shitty workers regardless of the cheers they get. Just like RVD. And for those moaning about RVD's corruption due to teh WWE STYLE!, here's a little secret. In ECW he was even worse. As in eye-gougingly, fearfully shitty and irritating. There is and never will be any excuse for a supposed wrestler to spend 10 full minutes posing in one match alone while his retarded manager blows a whistle. But if they're over AND make money, to hell with how shitty they wrestle. Hogan sucked in the 80's but he drew the people in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 8, 2003 RVD's workrate is fantastic. He has seemingly endless endurance and can bump like a motherfucker. He's just horrible "technically". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoCalMike 0 Report post Posted August 9, 2003 Well it isn't always fair to judge by five minute matches either. You can only do so much, and in matches that short, hitting the same repative well known spots are a priority. So you can't say it's his fault for being repetative. RVD doesn't have the ability to carry shitty workers, which will translate into a lot of bad matches on Raw, but he has had good matches with Benoit and Jericho, and some VERY good matches with Eddie. So instead of the general statement of "rvd is a shitty worker" maybe something like, RVD wrestles up to the competition is more appropriate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Memphis Report post Posted August 9, 2003 What a crock of shit. RVD is and will forever remain and over-rated piece of shit. His matches are the most reptetive I've seen outside of Triple H. The glitzy moves were fun at first, but it's not hard to find the moron tedious when he uses the EXACT same moveset for every single match. Rinse.Repeat.RVD. *yawn*, next ECW reject thanks. TAFKA 'M" Gotta luv dem WWE marks!!! They actually think that "bah gawd anyone that came from WCW or ECW are crap, cause if they were any good they would of been in WWE all along cause WWE is DA BOMB!!!" Uh......huh. To the guy on page one: I've never been a fan of Chris Benoit. I lost interest in Chris Jericho when he left WCW. However, I have always remained a very big fan of Eddie Guerrero, and rightfully so as I feel he is the better worker out of those three, IMO. Just because EVERYONE works WWE Style doesn't mean you should cease to be creative or innovative. Besides, I'd hardly call Jericho's matches 'repetitive', at least not in the same league as Van Dam's, who I swear hasn't learnt a new wrestling move in 5 years. TAFKA 'M' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Memphis Report post Posted August 9, 2003 RVD's workrate is fantastic. He has seemingly endless endurance and can bump like a motherfucker. He's just horrible "technically". I agree with this statement. I don't deny Van Dam is in tremendous shape and can go at it in the ring, top speed, for a long period of time. I just wish he'd do something, you know, that hasn't already done 6 million times already. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 9, 2003 Just because EVERYONE works WWE Style doesn't mean you should cease to be creative or innovative. Actually _it does_. See, the WWE style is this - kick punch kick punch *insert signature move here* kick punch kick *transition move that really isn't a transition move* kick punch kick punch punch punch *signature move* kick punch kick punch *another spot (aka "transition move" -wink-)* kick punch punch punch punch *finish*. All of this in one of the WWE's many many formula (note singular form) and changes up once in a while with some rope running, move teasing, etc. You know, meaningless crap. But they do that formula real good. Good bookers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Memphis Report post Posted August 9, 2003 Just because EVERYONE works WWE Style doesn't mean you should cease to be creative or innovative. Actually _it does_. See, the WWE style is this - kick punch kick punch *insert signature move here* kick punch kick *transition move that really isn't a transition move* kick punch kick punch punch punch *signature move* kick punch kick punch *another spot (aka "transition move" -wink-)* kick punch punch punch punch *finish*. All of this in one of the WWE's many many formula (note singular form) and changes up once in a while with some rope running, move teasing, etc. You know, meaningless crap. But they do that formula real good. Good bookers. Indeed. Yet I've had people trying to making a point with me that guys like CHRIS JERICHO follow that formula. Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho are just a few off the top of my head that are exceptions to the 'WWE Style'. It's idiotic. I'm all for maturely discussing the pile of crapulence Van Dam is, but hit me with some worthwhile points next time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 9, 2003 No one, wrestling in the WWE, is an exception to the WWE style. The WWE style is "fast paced brawling", and everyone does the kick/punch, everyone does those spots, everyone does their signature moves. There's the format, you can apply it to every WWE match - from Benoit/Angle to RVD/Eddie to Austin/Rock. It's all the same fucking style, and that shit gets tired. The only difference is workrate and move execution. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoCalMike 0 Report post Posted August 9, 2003 No one, wrestling in the WWE, is an exception to the WWE style. The WWE style is "fast paced brawling", and everyone does the kick/punch, everyone does those spots, everyone does their signature moves. There's the format, you can apply it to every WWE match - from Benoit/Angle to RVD/Eddie to Austin/Rock. It's all the same fucking style, and that shit gets tired. The only difference is workrate and move execution. Yah and when the cruisers try to be cruisers, they are told to "slow it down" or "tone it down" The "WWE style" is just not some conspiracy theory, and it has nothing to do with whether someone is gettng held down or now, it is simply a FACT OF LIFE, for workers in the WWE. If you need proof, just watch any worker that has accomplishments OUTSIDE of the WWE. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoCalMike 0 Report post Posted August 9, 2003 And as far as RVD's posing goes in ECW, if that is your strongest argument for why he was worse, then you have obviously only seen ECW from when RVD turned superface. His first few years in ECW he didn't EVER pose, or do the R.....V......D....shit. That was only when ECW was trying to expand RAPIDLY, so they put the company on RVD's shoulders and went from there. Before RVD was "The man" in ECW, he had little to ZERO characteristics that he posses now in WWE. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted August 9, 2003 RVD's workrate is fantastic. He has seemingly endless endurance and can bump like a motherfucker. He's just horrible "technically". Couldn't have said it better myself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Only The Strong Survive 0 Report post Posted August 9, 2003 RVD's workrate is fantastic. He has seemingly endless endurance and can bump like a motherfucker. He's just horrible "technically". Couldn't have said it better myself. Too bad Triple H buried him... big time... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humongous2002 0 Report post Posted August 9, 2003 No one, wrestling in the WWE, is an exception to the WWE style. The WWE style is "fast paced brawling", and everyone does the kick/punch, everyone does those spots, everyone does their signature moves. There's the format, you can apply it to every WWE match - from Benoit/Angle to RVD/Eddie to Austin/Rock. It's all the same fucking style, and that shit gets tired. The only difference is workrate and move execution. Yah and when the cruisers try to be cruisers, they are told to "slow it down" or "tone it down" The "WWE style" is just not some conspiracy theory, and it has nothing to do with whether someone is gettng held down or now, it is simply a FACT OF LIFE, for workers in the WWE. If you need proof, just watch any worker that has accomplishments OUTSIDE of the WWE. You hit it right in the nail.It's just an excuse to keep the more talented (ECW,WCW,)wrestlers from stealing the spotlight from the more established WWE main eventers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted August 9, 2003 RVD's workrate is fantastic. He has seemingly endless endurance and can bump like a motherfucker. He's just horrible "technically". Couldn't have said it better myself. Too bad Triple H buried him... big time... RVD was buried long before HHH. You don't "beat" Taker for the title one week, then get shunted to the midcard the next week with no mention of what happened. That kills heat. HHH gave RVD a one month program, and then beat him. It wasn't a burial. If he had been taken seriously before then, that loss would've been no big deal. I'm sick of you HHH cry-babies, screaming about how he ruined RVD. RVD wasn't taken seriously by the WWE to begin with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ultra Violence 0 Report post Posted August 9, 2003 lets face it Jericho and RVD would both be better off on SD, trade them for Taker and Anal Train Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted August 9, 2003 lets face it Jericho and RVD would both be better off on SD, trade them for Taker and Anal Train Trade them for Benoit and Taker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted August 9, 2003 Why Benoit? Is there a particular reason? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted August 9, 2003 Why Benoit? Is there a particular reason? RAW needs workrate. Especiall if it loses RVD and Y2J. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted August 9, 2003 Point taken. But isn't always believed that Raw is the 'entertainment' while Smackdown is the 'wrestling'? If they want to keep it that way, put Big Show and Taker on Raw. It's not like they're doing anything important right now anyways. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest deadbeater Report post Posted August 10, 2003 (edited) The one other non-WWE made champion--Molly. And Lita, from ECW, is so popular, not unlike RVD, she may get the major title that eluded him. Edited August 10, 2003 by deadbeater Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JasonX 0 Report post Posted August 10, 2003 Point taken. But isn't always believed that Raw is the 'entertainment' while Smackdown is the 'wrestling'? If they want to keep it that way, put Big Show and Taker on Raw. It's not like they're doing anything important right now anyways. Logic dictates that the WWE can't totally unbalance the shows to the point of obsurdity. Hence why RVD and Jericho can't be traded off to SD for peices of shit like UT or Rikishi or Albert. The WWE has realized that they need to keep at least SOME of the workrate guys on Raw to keep people watching and hoping that it gets better.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cabbageboy 0 Report post Posted August 10, 2003 I disagree with the notion that RVD can't carry people. I mean, I saw him have some really fun matches with guys like UT and the Big Show. Bear in mind that this was during the time when NO ONE else was having even watchable matches with those guys. If anything, his style enables him to have at least a fun, amusing match with virtually anyone. However, it limits him a bit when it comes to having amazing 5 star classics with people like Eddie or Benoit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EL DANDY~! 0 Report post Posted August 10, 2003 Holy shit...good call on the RVD carrying UT in the Hardcore title match. UT basically just let RVD hit him with everything he had while he played the Sandman "old bastard" selling down to a "T", and then he just hit RVD with bomb after bomb until he hit the BIG bomb. That might be the only match I remember with RVD carrying the match, but that does stand out. And Shalashaska, give it up already. This whole "I'm being an asshole" gimmick is getting kind of lame, and I, for one, don't really appreciate it. You're turning into the Jubuki of the entire forum. The reason RVD does the same goddamn thing over and over for the last two years is because he hasn't exactly been given the green light to go out there and do whatever he's wanted to do. You can pin that on 95% of the wrestlers in WWE right now. There are very few, and I mean VERY few wrestlers who are out there and able to do moves outside of what they've done for most of their careers. Benoit: Chops and kicks, Lariat/Elbow, Snap Suplex, Backdrop, Germans, Headbutt, Crossface-And yes, I know he has the powerbomb back. He's only been able to do it to Guerrero, so I'm not counting it yet. Angle: Punches and kicks, Belly to Belly, Backdrop, Snap Suplex, Germans, Angle Lock/Angle Slam (interchangable) Jericho: Chops, Dropkick, Backdrop, Flying Forearm, Lionsault, Walls of Jericho So can somebody please tell me why RVD's moveset of Kicks, Legdrops, Standing Moonsault, Rolling Thunder, Monkey Flip, Springboard Bodypress, Split-Legged Moonsault, and the Five-Star to finish isn't similar to any of the other movesets that I've mentioned? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted August 11, 2003 Those RVD/Taker matches were better than the normal Taker match solely because of Van Dam's style. Taker matches are generally slower and with him on offense most of the time. With RVD bouncing off him like a pinball and making some very well timed comebacks (it didn't hurt that every time he wrestled Taker he was on a huge upswing of overness) the matches were hot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted August 11, 2003 If only... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EdwardKnoxII 0 Report post Posted August 11, 2003 Yah and when the cruisers try to be cruisers, they are told to "slow it down" or "tone it down" The "WWE style" is just not some conspiracy theory, and it has nothing to do with whether someone is gettng held down or now, it is simply a FACT OF LIFE, for workers in the WWE. If you need proof, just watch any worker that has accomplishments OUTSIDE of the WWE. Hell just watch the first TE. Remember during the interview thing with all the people trying out they were interviewing Harvard Chris and he told them that have had been to Killer K(sp?) school? And then Tazz asked him would he have a problem with him forgetting what he learned there and having the WWF reprograming him. Then, of course, there was the ep were he was showing someone how to do a move and Torrie chewed him and said that they do moves the "WWF way". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Memphis Report post Posted August 11, 2003 And Shalashaska, give it up already. This whole "I'm being an asshole" gimmick is getting kind of lame, and I, for one, don't really appreciate it. You're turning into the Jubuki of the entire forum. The reason RVD does the same goddamn thing over and over for the last two years is because he hasn't exactly been given the green light to go out there and do whatever he's wanted to do. You can pin that on 95% of the wrestlers in WWE right now. There are very few, and I mean VERY few wrestlers who are out there and able to do moves outside of what they've done for most of their careers. Right, I'm pretending to be bad ass. Got me there. My beef isn't with Van Dam's style, it's with his professionalism. Benoit, Angle, Guerrero, Rey Rey, hell, even TRIPLE H understand that SELLING your opponents offence is apart of the storytelling aspect that is professional wrestling. It pisses me off that the idiot goes out there and half asses it while guys like Benoit, who are model wrestlers, get LESS of a push than he does. Understandably so, Triple H only sells for those he feels are worthy, but at least he DOES it occasionally. Just because I refuse to tolerate a wrestler doesn't mean I'm trying to be an 'asshole', as you've described me. Shoot me, I have high standards. TAFKA 'M' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest undisputedjericho Report post Posted August 11, 2003 Torrie That wasn't Torrie it was Tori, my second all time favorite "diva" besides Steph-O-Mac. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
