The 10 germans...

[Guest Ray]

The main complaint about the excellent Austin/Benoit Smackdown match is the 10 german suplexes at the end.

 

Why, I ask?

 

I just watched this match and I really don't see the problem.

 

After Benoit hits #10, Vince interferes. Benoit attacks Vince, giving Austin a few seconds to recover and win with a surprise roll-up. Benoit is up right after the pin...the announcers put over the fact that Benoit had Austin beat, and Austin only won by surprise. Austin stumbles up the ramp and collapses, selling his fatigue. All makes sense to me.

 

What's the problem here?

 

Anyone care to explain how these german suplexes are a bad thing?

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Up until that point the match was fucking fantastic. Then it goes downhill.

 

The problem is the move is made to look like shit because Benoit busts out 10 in a row and Austin is up a minute later. 10 suplexes! he should be dead. It also doesn't really have a place in the match as it seems to only be there so that the rubes can count to 10. It disrespects and discredits the move.

 

Another problem (although not one that is the fault of the wrestlers) is that about a minute after 10 germans the match ends. Austin has to get up, roll up Benoit and hold him down for a 3 count. The fact that he can do that after taking 10 of one of Benoit's 3 biggest moves isn't good. Basically, due to the booking of the match Austin doesn't have time to sell the 10 suplexes. Although, Austin does a fantastic job of selling after the match, it still doesn't work because a minute before he was quickly rolling up Benoit.

 

Still, great fucking match, and the best singles match the WWE put on that year.

[Guest Goodear]

Because one german suplex should be enough for a near fall by itself based on its history and impact. So ten of the bleeding things in a row should essentially murder the person taking them. Instead since Austin managed to not only continue in the match but win it, you devalue the German to the point where it might as well be an elbow off the ropes. So you loose the entire drama behind the manuever as a near fall. If ten of the things don't work, why would one? You've basically took a potential head dropping move and turned it into a body slam.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

not to mention after that match they did it in EVERY Benoit and/or Angle match for the rest of eternity.

[Silence 0]

not to mention after that match they did it in EVERY Benoit and/or Angle match for the rest of eternity.

That was my and everyone else's complaints about the Benoit/Angle matches, which is why there were only two great matches out of the series: The Benoit/Angle Wrestlemania X-7 match and the Benoit/Angle Royal Rumble match. The rest were decent, but disappointing because they basically had a bunch of Germans, death-defying spots(Angle moonsault off the cage), stalling from Angle in their Backlash 2001 match, and their usual signature moves they normally use(hey, big movesets DO make better matches most of the time if the moves are executed well, but the WWE style limits most wrestlers).

[dubq 0]

I'm drawing a blank, but when was that match? Was that when Austin had just turned heel, leading up to the Two Man Power Trip vs Jericho/Benoit?

[eiker_ir 0]

it was on Smackdown! around May 2001 i beleive

[Guest wildpegasus]

All right, since this the 10 german suplexes is one of my biggest markout moments in wrestling history, I'm going to comment on this.

 

Interestingly enough, the 10 german suplex idea was Austin's idea. Did Austin get up too quick? It's hard to say as all Austin did was a surprise roll up of Benoit from behind and to Austin's credit he was selling the germans even when the show went off the air. Ideally, the 10 german spot should have finished the match the first time they were ever used. Austin getting up would be kind of similar to Misawa kicking out of the burning hammer the first time Kobashi ever brought it out. Since Austin was sussposed to win this match by cheating I think this is what should've happened. McMahon nails Benoit win a chair or whatever and drags over a knocked out Austin on top of Benoit for the pinfall. That way, the 10 german suplexes get protected and Austin still gets his heelish win.

[Just call me Dan 0]

I think that would have hurt the match, because of direct involvement of Vince. He wasn't really factored into the finish with any offense, and Benoit lost because of his won mistake, not because Vince MADE him lose.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Quote Just call me Dan

 

"..., not because Vince MADE him lose."

 

Vince did make Benoit lose. He distracted Benoit when he got on the apron(if I remember right). Benoit would've been stupid at that point to work over Austin as it would've just let McMahon beat on him.

 

*wildpegasus-would book every match with a clean finish if he was booker*

[Guest Ray]

When did WWE ever hold the German in such high regard? It wasn't treated as a killer move at that time, if I recall.

 

I don't feel the germans are out of place for this reason: The triple german suplex is Benoit's "thing". They're nearing the end of the match, so Benoit busts out his move....but he hates Austin, so he doesn't give him three...he gives Austin four, then five, and he hears the crowd so he keeps going...he wants to punish Austin with his move.

 

And remember.....Austin is supposedly the toughest S.O.B. in the WWF. Plus he's at a much higher level than everyone else....you know, he's "the best" in terms of storylines. Top level talents get to kick out of finishers (like Rock at WM17) and take big moves.

 

 

So there you have my attempt to defend the psychology of that...

[Just call me Dan 0]

Quote Just call me Dan

 

"..., not because Vince MADE him lose."

 

Vince did make Benoit lose. He distracted Benoit when he got on the apron(if I remember right). Benoit would've been stupid at that point to work over Austin as it would've just let McMahon beat on him.

 

*wildpegasus-would book every match with a clean finish if he was booker*

IMO, Benoit's ring presence and experience would really have to flaw this. I don't think Benoit should have just played the dumb face and gone right after Vince. Can't you see this coming a mile away? Benoit is the same guy who slaps his opponents hands away when they try and pick him up off the mat. He doesn't conform with the rest of the idiots and just stand up, and let the guy kicking his ass just lead the way.

 

I HATE the fact that McMahon was involved in any way. Benoit could have easily decided to go for the Headbutt again instead of pinning Austin. He may have wasted valuable time there, which would have made it easy for Austin to nip that one in the bud and move out of the way. He then could have continued selling while Benoit was staggered in as well, and then they could have gotten up as if it were a stalemate and finished the match with a clean Stunner. If the announcers were worth a shit at the time they could point out Benoit having missed the headbutt twice in the match and that if he had hit that the match could have easily gone in his favor.

 

Sorry about the fantasy booking, but I don't like the quickness of Austin's win after the suplexes (basically saying a man should be coherent after being suplexed on his neck 10 times).

 

In summary, I am REALLY sick of every heel turn that is big involving Vince. I can't wait for them to rinse and repeat this finish at Summerslam with Brock and Angle because of thier lack of creativity.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Quote Just call me Dan

"In summary, I'm really tired of every heel turn that is big involving Vince."

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

Quote Just call me Dan

"I hate the fact that McMahon was involved in any way."

 

Couldn't agree more.

[Fökai 0]

not to mention after that match they did it in EVERY Benoit and/or Angle match for the rest of eternity.

That was my and everyone else's complaints about the Benoit/Angle matches, which is why there were only two great matches out of the series: The Benoit/Angle Wrestlemania X-7 match and the Benoit/Angle Royal Rumble match.

*cough*Unforgivenfromlastyear*cough*

[Guest Wildbomb 4:20]

Although I can see the problem with Austin being able to get the win after taking the 10 germans, I also feel that with the booking used, it was probably one of the more credible routes to take. Our other options could have been:

 

1. Vince chairshots Beniot, and leads to an Austin DQ;

2. Vince chairshots Beniot, drags Austin on top of Beniot

3. Vince gets offense in, which allows Austin to recover and stun Beniot for the victory

 

Personally, in order to add to the heel heat of Austin (and not to that of Vince), the cheap roll up was probably the most viable way to go.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Plus, after 5 or 6 it just looks goofy. My family was openly laughing at it. I mean, the same move 5 times in a row is pushing it, but 10? Give me a break.

[TheBostonStrangler 0]

McMahon HAD to be involved in that heel turn. There was no other way to turn Austin heel.