The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Jasmine was bad who hid her evil in good intentions. I just gave 7 "proofs" to back that up. She was a higher-being who was tired of not getting recognition and wanted to be worshipped for all her divinity.

 

I too think that WR&H and the Higher Powers are in business with each other because good and evil are relative to each other. Evil needs to exist, and a balance must be maintained. This is better represented in "The First vs. Buffy" than anything in Angel.

 

And Skip was Jasmines minion who was pissed off that he had to job to Angel in Billy (Moles theory about Fred/Gunn/Wes can apply here)

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Jasmine was bad who hid her evil in good intentions. I just gave 7 "proofs" to back that up. She was a higher-being who was tired of not getting recognition and wanted to be worshipped for all her divinity.

Sounds a lot like the Devil, which is why I'm sticking with my idea.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

'Cept the Devil (or Lucifer) had a bad case of Hubris, while Jasmiines "fall out" was never really explained. No doubt, season 4 and Jasmine were analogous to religion and worship and I think this Lucifer thing can be taken somewhere, but I think the main thing was about blind faith vs. truth and the role free will plays in that.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Maybe it will be explained at the end of this season?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I don't think they feel Jasmine is something that needs to be explained further that it was... but I would love for there to be a "WR&H set everything up - they planned this all back before man even breathed." So Jasmine and Illyria are explained by that. They were 'played'/tricked/conned by the Senior Partners; perhaps an idea was planted into their head

 

"Hey, this world isn't for you Illyria - come back in a few thousand years..."

 

"Hey Jasmine, you are not appreciated enough as a higher power. You command the love and affection of all those below you. Earth will be ripe for the picking in the few thousand years, comeback then."

 

Both are obviously intertwined with WR&H (Jasmine depended on Darla, who was brought back by WR&H - Illryia was brought in by employees of WR&H as well as Gunn, who got his upgrade because of the conduit) the only question would be "why?". Why would the Senior Partners want to get involved with those two high beings anyways? What are they building up to? Is it just for the apocalypse?

[Mole 0]

I had the "pleasure" of traveling 9 hours yesterday and today, so I had a lot of thinking time.

 

These are the few things I came up with:

 

1. I think Jasmine really was a "gift" from the PTB. Cordy had a vision about Fred in Pylea, which eventually led to Team Angel to Pylea. Pylea's "religion" was Wolf Ram & Hart, and Team Angel messed up the whole religion, making Gru king. W&H was probably pissed off about that, so they said fuck you PTB and TA.

 

Eventually, Knox picked Fred to become Illyria which caused lots of pain towards TA. W&H got some revenge there.

 

2. Why Illyria was chosen to come back isn't really known because we don't know enough. All I can come up with is that W&H is trying to show Illyria how powerful they are.

 

"The wolf, ram, and hart? In my time they were weak, barely above the vampire"

 

I believe that when Illyria was first alive, W&H had some beef with Illyria. So maybe, W&H had knox bring her back to show her how powerful they are.

 

"The big plans" for Gunn was to sign that paper allowing Illyria to leave customs and enter Fred's body. At the same time, they did their fuck you to TA for fucking up the power they had in Pylea. And they also distracted TA, that way they can work on their apacolypse with TA knowing.

 

3. Back to the Jasmine was a "gift" from the PTB. Angel was given the choice, once Fred showed him what Jasmine really looked like, on what to do about Jasmine. Either he could live in a world where everyone was happy or he could kill her and end it all. Maybe that was another "test" to see if Angel was a true warrior which might lead to him becoming human again. This is one of the theories that I had trouble with, so it might not make much sense.

 

4. When W&H gave the amulet to Angel to help Buffy with the First, they did that one purpose. Remember the whole "they don't want another apacolypse happening except for theirs" thing. Well, if the First was able to beat Buffy, the ubervamps would run wild and kill all.

 

W&H didn't want that happening so they had the amulet given to Angel that way either him or Spike, which is still debatable, could stop the First. They didn't want the First ruling Earth before they could.

 

5. Since I am a big fan of "everything happens for a reason," then you could connect events from BTVS.

 

Angel left Sunnydale because of Buffy and his love. Cordy left Sunnydale to persue her acting career. However, if Cordy's parents didn't loose all of their money because of taxes, she might have gone a different route. Her money might have been a factor in her choices in LA.

 

Cordy met up with that vampire guy, forgot his name, who was a big client for them. Angel killed him, in which W&H started a war with Angel and vice-versa. I believe that W&H and PTB are connected then. W&H brought back Darla, which over time, led to Angel taking over W&H so Connor could have a normal life.

 

That is what I got so far because my brain really hurts.

[Guest Brian]

What if Jasmine was part of the Senior Partners instead, like an outcast? Skip was working for them, keeping their client's son in check. Jasmine wanted a way out, so Skip opened it up by taking Cordelia away and planting the seeds that allowed Jasmine to show up. She wanted to eliminate WolfRam and Hart's ties to that dimension, using the Beast. Thus, with the knowledge that Angel was part of the Apocalypse, she wanted to use Angellus and manipulated the scenes with Cordelia to get him there. She wanted full control of the world, and that is purely evil and selfish no matter how one goes about it.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Either Jasmine was a really big power (God), or she was a "Power that Was" who rebelled. I think she was a "Power that was" who was tired of going unrecognized and wanted people to worship her. It just falls in line with the religious aspect they were going for in season 4. Her intentions were selfish, but she thought they were righteous. I think she honestly thought she was doing everyone good, but in reality she wasn't. There had to be a connection to WR&H because so much of the stuff they did effected Jasmine, but I don't think she was one of them.

[Mole 0]

Hmm, that is a good theory. However, I don't think Skip has enough power to sneek behind the PTB and make her a higher being.

 

Plus, I don't like Skip having such a big role in all of it. He was only in 4 episodes, but somehow he had a major role in the series arc.

 

And this promo photo for the last Angel rules all.

 

[Mole 0]

Either Jasmine was a really big power (God), or she was a "Power that Was" who rebelled. I think she was a "Power that was" who was tired of going unrecognized and wanted people to worship her. It just falls in line with the religious aspect they were going for in season 4. Her intentions were selfish, but she thought they were righteous. I think she honestly thought she was doing everyone good, but in reality she wasn't. There had to be a connection to WR&H because so much of the stuff they did effected Jasmine, but I don't think she was one of them.

If Charisma never got pregnent, then we would have gotten THE BEAST as the Big Bad. Then we wouldn't have to kill our brains trying to interprut where Jasmine fits in all of this shit.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Is that promo photo from Buffy season 2?

[Guest Brian]

I think Jasmine held her in limbo, and Skip just convinced her to go. See, Jasmine was the lead, he was just a pawn. Beast was a knight, Angelus a bishop.

 

BTW, in the promo poster, is that the same ring Buffy wore when Angel was brought back from the Hell Dimension?

[Mole 0]

Is that promo photo from Buffy season 2?

It must be since David's hair is longer and his face is thinner.

 

BTW, in the promo poster, is that the same ring Buffy wore when Angel was brought back from the Hell Dimension?

I don't think so, I belive her ring was silver and that looks gold.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

He's looking very season 2 Angelus in that pic.

[Guest Brian]

And that actually bolsters the idea that the PTB weren't hands-on group, while the Senior Partners were.

[Mole 0]

And that actually bolsters the idea that the PTB weren't hands-on group, while the Senior Partners were.

Okay you lost me here.

[Guest Brian]

Powers that be sort of stepped back and let people choose their way rather than drastically interfered with force like the Senior Partners did. Therefore, Jasmine as part of the Senior Partners, would be obligated to take a more active role in the apocalypse.

[Mole 0]

Ohohohoh, okay.

 

Makes sense.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I can't imagine the Senior Partners destroying their own L.A. branch and killing the conduit via the Beast.

[Guest Brian]

They didn't. Jasmine did. She's still the rogue like in the PTB theory, only a member of the Partners. Thus, she manipulated her coming using Darla and Skip.

[Mole 0]

I don't think we will have all of the answers until the season finale.

 

I was also thinking about Buffy/Angel and how the shows are so different. They just have a different vibe to them, but I can't figure out what.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I don't think we will have all of the answers until the season finale.

 

I was also thinking about Buffy/Angel and how the shows are so different. They just have a different vibe to them, but I can't figure out what.

Different atmosphere and style.

 

Buffy always seemed to deal with a group of friends that reminded you of kids. Especially since you watched them since they were in High School. So the show had a more young feel to it.

 

Angel on the other hand had more adult minded characters and no high school years. So it had a more grown up feel to it. More serious and dark.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Lots of news from whatever Buffy convention just happened courtesty of Aint it Cool News:

 

"I went to the Cleveland Slayer Convention this weekend and thought you might want to hear some news.

 

Nick Brendon did a Q/A and let slip that Joss is working on another show. When asked what it was called he mumbled something like "Brothers" but then said he didn't know. He also said that a Buffy movie is going to happen it's just a question of when. I also found it strange that he mentioned a Buffy cartoon that has Allison, Anthony and him doing voices that might be picked up soon. I thought the Buffy cartoon was dead...?

 

Mercedes McNab said that Angel is dead as an ongoing series but she did hear about the TV movies. She even started to cry when talking about the shows end.

 

Anthony Head talked about Whedon and him doing a spin off called Ripper. He said that he and Joss talk about it every time they see each other. It is supposed to start off as a 2 hour TV movie.

 

Morena Baccarin said that the Firefly movie would start filming in June and that you would get more back story on Inara and Book. She also said that as far as she knows everyone is back for the movie."

[Mole 0]

I don't think we will have all of the answers until the season finale.

 

I was also thinking about Buffy/Angel and how the shows are so different. They just have a different vibe to them, but I can't figure out what.

Different atmosphere and style.

 

Buffy always seemed to deal with a group of friends that reminded you of kids. Especially since you watched them since they were in High School. So the show had a more young feel to it.

 

Angel on the other hand had more adult minded characters and no high school years. So it had a more grown up feel to it. More serious and dark.

Plus Buffy had the Big Bad of the season, while Angel focused more on the Big Bad of the series.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I think this past season of Angel, which IMO is awesome, has a sort of novelty feel to it. The finale of season 4 started to really set it up where it strays pretty far from the original concept of the show. There characters are different and are experiencing different things: Gunn especially, Angel slightly, Fred a bit, Lorne not entirely, and Cordy is gone. That may be were the feelings of "difference" arise. I would say this season has been "brighter", in terms of physical tones and thematic ones.

[Mole 0]

You forgot about Wes.

[Anakin Flair 0]

Question: Does anybody know if Tara's hometown was ever mentioned, and if so, where was it? I need it for a story I'm writing.

 

Thanksin advance

[Mole 0]

Umm, if anything it would be from "Family."

 

And oh yeah, one more thing...

 

CHARISMA'S PLAYBOY PICS

[Guest Brian]

I'm watching Season Two right now and their talking about that failsafe, with Druscilla getting one of her visions. This is when they're all locked up together when Angel was going bad.

 

If anyone needs Season Two on DVD, PM me. I have two copies with me (one's my roomates), so I'd be willing to part with it at a very fair price.

[Mole 0]

Has it been opened?