The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[Hank Kingsley 0]

Whoa, are they really going to bring Willow back? I hope so.

[Anakin Flair 0]

This is rediculous. Evil lawfirm or not, Giles wouldn't stand by while an Old One rose. he'd send back-up.

[Hank Kingsley 0]

BUSINESS IS ABOUT TO PICK UP!

 

Wes and Knox are just excellent in this episode, by the way.

[Guest stardust]

Bad ass Wes~! Wooo~!

[Ravenbomb 0]

man, reading all these responses to what I can only assume is tonight's Angel episode (it's on Wednesdays now?) makes me want to get caught up on the DVD's even more. Stupid pseudo-poverty...

[Anakin Flair 0]

And Gunn gets his walking papers.

[Anakin Flair 0]

GO WES!!!

[Hank Kingsley 0]

Knox!

 

Gone!

 

 

Holy jesus, that was an awesome scene.

[Hank Kingsley 0]

Man oh man. How the hell are we supposed to wait a month for the next episode after THAT?!

[Anakin Flair 0]

This is getting interesting.

 

Nice to see Wes has an inner Ripper.

I actually LIKED Harmony this week, for the first time in a while.

Angel and Spike co-existing is great. Nice to see them work together.

 

It's gonna suck not having a new episode for five weeks. Fuck the WB.

[Mole 0]

Wow, that episode was something really different. It wasn't as good as last weeks, but it was still good in its own way.

 

I won't number everything like I usually do because I don't feel the episode warrants that. It wasn't one of those episodes that had a lot of great moments; but one that was great in it all.

 

The thing about Fred is she is THE heart of Team Angel. She is just like Kayleigh in Firefly, and I am sure Joss did that on purpose. Everyone loves Fred, and to see her gone like that is pure Joss, and I love it.

 

The ending was very poetic. Everyone was sad about Fred being gone, everything felt alone. Then at the same time, Illyria was alone too and she didn't know her place in the world. Everyone seemed lost and that is because the heart is gone.

 

However, Wes is the fuckin shit. I would never want to go toe-to-toe with Wes; he would fuckin kill me in a second.

 

And RRR you are right, this goes DEEP. Ten bucks says this gets A LOT deeper and I am loving every second of it.

[Anya 0]

That was just the First fuckin with Dawn. It wasn't supposed to go anywhere.

 

 

What happened with Joyce in CWDP doesn't match FE at all. That wasn't just the usual harassment from it.

 

Also Buffy was having dreams about Joyce.

 

It really seemed to be building up to something...

 

 

 

Yes it did. The First knew that Spike was important, and it wanted to get rid of him some how. Plus, he was the one who opened the seal to get the ubervamp out.

 

 

Important for what? Apparently not the seal since it thought Jonathan would open it.

 

The first half of the season is basically devoted to FE wanting Spike. It was clearly more than just "it wants to screw with Buffy's friend".

 

 

The whole point of the series was about how Buffy was always alone, she couldn't have a normal life because she was "Chosen." Then, all of these girls who are potentials, became slayers. Now, she no longer is alone and can be a normal girl. So that is where it went.

 

 

They weren't really connected at all. Buffy gave them all power to beat the ubies, not to correct the slayer line or to balance the scales or whatever.

 

In the first half of the season FE was doing all this because the Slayer line was messed up, it was killing SITs and planned to eventually end the slayer forever. Then this suddenly switched gears to "lots of ubies makes me FE flesh" plan.

 

 

The First thought that Jonathan was the one who would open the seal; but it was wrong. After that, the First gave up on Andrew eventually.

 

 

So FE is just a dumbass? You'd think a primordial being like FE would know how it's seal thingy works. So much for being "BEYOND DEATH~!". It can't even open a little doorway.

 

How come Jonathan's blood didn't work and it appeared Spike's was special, but then later any blood worked? Xander's worked and in the end the slayer's worked. FE said Jonathan's wasn't enough, yet later Buffy can cut her arm and it opens wide up.

 

 

 

If the ubervamps took over the planet, it would have enough power to become human.

 

 

Yeah, but why? Why would tons of ubies allow it to do this? Just because it says so?

 

Also originally it said it was tired of the mortal coil...then it wants to become one?

[Guest JMA]

Where did the seal come from? Why is the Hellmouth now a cave full of ubies?

I don't think the underground cave the uber-vamps were in WAS the Hellmouth.

[Guest JMA]

If the ubervamps took over the planet, it would have enough power to become human.

Yeah, but why? Why would tons of ubies allow it to do this? Just because it says so?

Well, I would assume it would enter mankind because the balance between good and evil would be tipped. Thus, the First would become much stronger and would no longer just be a non-physical "taunter."

[Anya 0]

They called the ubie cave the Hellmouth.

 

So why can it enter Caleb already? What's so special about him?

[Anakin Flair 0]

out of curiosity, did either of you actually watch Angel tonight?

[Guest JMA]

out of curiosity, did either of you actually watch Angel tonight?

I did. I really enjoyed it.

[Anya 0]

No, I'll watch it when it comes out on DVD.

[Guest JMA]

They called the ubie cave the Hellmouth.

 

So why can it enter Caleb already? What's so special about him?

The ENTRANCE to the Hellmouth is under the school. That's probably what they meant. The Master opened the Hellmouth in season one, and it was reopened in season three (there was an attempt to open it in season four). Pure demons are in the Hellmouth, not uber-vamps. It's a dimension, not an underground cave.

 

As for Caleb, the First said he was the only one "strong" enough to be its (the First's) vessel. Whether this was physical or mental strength is unknown.

 

I'd also like to say season one is VERY underrated (by just about everyone). It's not really fair to compare it to the other ones because it was much shorter (in terms of episodes a season).

[Anya 0]

I know what the Hellmouth is. That's the whole point: since when was it or it's entrance a cave of ubies? It just came out of no where.

 

What bugs me the most about Caleb was that he ended up meaning nothing at all. They built him as a threat, even going so far as to have him permanently injure a main character and for what? So he could get owned in the opening? I could accept his vague origins and all that if it actually meant something. The final battle is so anticlimactic, they should have used him him with a bigger, more important blow off. What a waste.

[Mole 0]

Season 1 isn't underrated; it is what it is.

 

And can we please talk about tonight's Angel? Where is RRR?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Yeah, I agree witcha Mole 100%.

 

....I *am* right.

 

 

 

But seriously folks, I really, REALLY enjoyed this episode. Not so much that I'll go on an insane "fuck"-fest, but it was just a nice, warm, episode. Not warm in terms of "oooh this was a light-hearted episode that made me realize the importance of goodness", but warm in the "everything is actually playing out now and I'll let it wash out all over me." I really like the pace they're hitting, very relaxed, nothing forced, they've set up their dominoes and they're watching each one fall onto the other.

 

The one doubt I had about this from reading the spoilers was Fred as Illyria, but fuck, if I don't buy her hook-line-and-sinker... just great work and I like the subtle voice change (well, I guess not-so-subtle, but the lower octave changes her from the sweet country girl into a big city woman.. it's a nice touch and she pulls it off well). I also dig the costume even though I thought it was horrid looking from a preview picture. She looks good in it, IMO. Though the one thing I do not get is Wes could smash an axe against her head and it shatters and she doesn't feel it, yet she still dodges Angel and Spikes swords and fears guns. I mean, they probably did it to separate her from THE BEAST in that she is more agile rather than just standing there and no selling everything, but I like just standing there and no selling everything.

 

Actually, what I *really* like about Illyria is that she combines what liked about THE BEAST (Ballstomping Invincibility with a certain distance from her violence... though no Eastern European Accent) and what I liked about Jasmine from Season 4. She is what Jasmine was before Connor killed her - trying to find meaning in this new world. I really love the idea that she expected the human race to die out by now, that she doesn't quite understand why Angel protects humans, that she looks down on Wolfram and Hart - it really makes her an outsider, it makes it believable (at least, within that universe created).

 

Knox was fantastic tonight. Jonathon M. Woodward is a fucking treasure that should be shared with the world on a much larger scale. Great timing; great delivery; just great.

 

Wes is a fucking show stealer (yes, I know, the show was based around him - he still made good!). The way he portrays this painful, desperate, sad, lonely anger is one-of-a-kind work. I haven't really seen anything like it. He plays a crushed individual excellently and given the circumstances (finally getting Fred just to lose her) he had to. I like how they didn't City Of Angels him; where he was content with just the moment of love; where he wanted more. It's a very selfish-thing and he recognizes that. I also liked how they left it open where he didn't say that love and hope were good enough. The irony here is that he is the most empty, yet he is the one sharing. Where, at the end, everyone was alone but him. It's a sort-of twisted thing they're doing too with Wes sticking with Illyria because she looks like Fred. A haunting thought, really; but fitting.

 

I was a lil uneasy about the lyrical music at the end, but once it got going I thought it worked pretty well. I may sound like a broken record, and it may not mean much, but I _love_ how they've positioned the characters and how it relates to Angels overall theme of retribution and "If nothing that we do matters, then what matters is what we do". This is just good fucking television, people. It really puts into perspective that fateful decision they made last season to join with Wolfram and Hart. And Giles denying Angel is *perfect*, because even Giles - who is all about the big picture and doing what shouldn't be done - is turning away from Angel (of course, Giles was never a fan of Angel post-Jenny anyways).

 

They made a deal with the devil, straight-up. It's best represented in Gunn (who was his usually awesome self tonight, even maybe a lil better than usual), whose choice to sign the contract directly effected the world. Those of you who thought this season put too much emphasis off the "big picture", you're right and you're wrong. It did _exactly_ what it set out to do and that's build up to this moment where they realize -and YOU, the viewer, realize- that dispite the good work they've done using WR&H, they still made the _wrong_ decision.

 

Actually, now that I think about it, this episode was really FUCKING good.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Yeah, tonight was pretty fantastic. It embodies the reason I've grown to love Angel over the past two years and why, in some ways, I think it's become a much more impressive series than Buffy ever was.

 

Mutant Enemy never takes the easy way out with Angel. Last week's episode was mindblowing, soulcrushing. These week, we expect Surly Dark Wes and a big action blowout. Well, we got all that, but the result wasn't the team getting their asses beat and crawling home to regroup for next week's fight.

 

I don't think any other production group would dare to seemingly kill off a beloved character, and then the next week have the creature responsible for filling her body share a tender moment and connection with the man most effected. Will Illyria try to wipe out the human race? It doesn't feel like it anymore. She's lost. And when you break it down, Fred's death is only very indirectly her fault. Everyone - even the supposed villain - has lost something big.

 

It just stuns me, week after week, the things they can pull off. The fifth season of Angel is probably the most mature and experimental season of anything that this team has created (with the disclaimer that, no, I haven't seen Firefly yet).

 

Also, for anyone interested, the song during the closing credits was performed by Kim Richey and called "A Place Called Home." Nice linkage to the episode of the Season 4 finale, too - "Home" indeed.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Fred's death is only very indirectly her fault.

 

It's interesting how they played that. In a way, we get to see how a sweet innocent girl ended up dying; and in another way we see how someone chose their fate. When Jasmine was created, they mentioned how _everything_ led up to it *including* Fred-in-Pylia. So it sort of had this ominous inevitable, "destiny" feel to it.

 

What is equally interesting is how, even though that had a sense of finality to it (a "goodbye to Fred") I can't help but feel they'll get her back; that she's not _really_ dead so there isn't this sense of loss.

[Guest wrestlingbs]

Damn. If one thing was pounded into the viewers' heads this week, it's that FRED"S GONE! Which sucks a lot, because I liked the character. It looks like Joss Whedon is a sick little bastard who loves to destroy happiness (look at Anya and Xander), but then again it makes for great TV.

 

Get performances by all this week. I liked how at the end they showed how all the characters reacted, rather than just blow it off like Buffy and Angel have done in the past with other dead characters. Special praise goes to the actor who plays Wes. As RRR already mentioned, he owned the show.

 

One sidenote: Have all the episodes already been filmed yet? Can Whedon wrap the series up still rather than just the season?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

They had room to finish off the season when they found out they were cancelled, I believe. When they started this season they knew the risk that this could be their last, so I don't think cancellation totally ruined what they had planned.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Joss ALWAYS assumes his shows are going to be cancelled.

 

If you look at Buffy the only season they KNEW they wouldn't be cancelled was after season 6....which is also the only one that ended with a cliffhanger.

 

Even on the season 4 commentary he said that they didn't think they'd be canceled that year...but it was always possible.

[Guest JMA]

Season 1 isn't underrated; it is what it is.

 

And can we please talk about tonight's Angel? Where is RRR?

I look at season one as an introduction to the world of "Buffy." I'd compare it to an OVA (anime fans will know what that means). I'm a huge mark for seasons one through three (the high school years). But back to tonight's "Angel."

 

The many potential ways they could go with the Illyria storyline make me even more saddened to see the Whedon-verse end. Having been there since the beginning makes it even more heart-breaking. I know some have accepted the fact that everything is going to be over, but I can't accept that.

 

BTW, does anyone know the name of the song they played at the end of the episode?

[Golgo 13 0]

I liked the episode. Not as stellar as last week, but pretty good regardless. For some reason, the performances hit home with me this week more than they usually do. Alexis (Wesley) was on, as usual, as was J. August (Gunn) and Jonathan Woodward (Knox). The cast of Angel is continually better than they have any right to be.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

Great episode. Angel is hitting it's stride, and it's so sad to know it'll be gone.

 

Also: Fred + Illyria = HOTHOT + 2.

 

One thing though. Through the last two eps, everyone has flipped about possibly losing Fred, and then actually losing Fred. Yet Cordy has no one even mention her (outside of Angel). She also died, and in a lot of ways she was the center of the Angel gang. Obviously less so after the whole "fucking Connor/birthing an evil God" thing, but still...not even a mention from the cast. But Fred gets 100 scenes of "We have to save her!" and "I can't believe she's gone" and "Let's call Willow and revive her". Poor Cordy.

 

And, I totally agree with Sakura re: Season 7. I loved it while it was going on, but the dropped stories (especially the Dawn/Joyce thing from Conversations with Dead People) just annoyed me. Chosen itself was an ok finale, but it just didn't do it for me.