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~Guilty Pleasures~

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A-Train has never done anything but bust his ass in my eyes.

 

That doesn't make him a good worker though- He tries hard but he just doesn't have it.

 

He's a nice guy and always does what is ask of him.

 

Where did you hear he was a nice guy? When I met him he was a dick he didn't sign for any fans.

 

A-Train most definitely has decent matches. If you can't see that, it's because you're blinded by the hate you have for the man.

 

You act like I haver some deep hatred towards A-Train because I don't think he's good in the ring. I don't like his matches because most of them suck.

 

He has a good tempo

 

I'm not into slow boring matches myself.

 

never botches anything that I've seen

 

He doesn't do any moves that could be botched- keep in mind he's also on SD! where fuckups are easy to hide.

 

He should NOT be fired. That's just an ignorant, blind statement by an ignorant sheep.

 

I don't know if I would fire him but he shouldn't be getting any semblance of a push.

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Guest Coffey

Well, you can't be too bad of a guy if you spend your free time helping sick & mentally ill children....

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Guest Ray
A-Train is given the I-C title and has successful defences against the likes of Edge (the KOTR) and Rhyno. He does not get over.

 

A-Train gets to injure Rey Mysterio and then hurt Edge before one of the biggest matches of his career. He gets to team with the WWE champ against Angle and Edge and has a PPV match v. Edge.

 

He does not get over.

Why did he not get over? Constant pushing/depushing creates apathy among fans. WWE is at fault.

 

Yes- A-Train's offence does suck. It is boring. It gives the viewer no reason to get into a match. It is slow.

It's boring TO YOU.

 

His offense is logical, well executed, and credible. I guess a match needs a 1000 spots in it to be good. I wonder if you could sit through a match like Destroyer vs Mascaras without being "bored."

 

People got off Lance's cock a long time ago. I don't think anyone considers him great technical wrestler

Yeah...that's why just a few days ago he was compared here to Bret/Owen/Benoit/Angle/Guerrero.

 

Go to wzforums.com, gamefaqs.com, lopforums.com, themayhem.com, or a dozen other forums. They also think he's a great wrestler.

 

I prefer Lance because he puts on the better matches

And where are these "better" matches? I don't see them. Lance wrestles a weak, unrealistic style.

 

I've yet to seen one except for a decent match against Benoit.

vs. Undertaker and vs. Lesnar stand out...

Just cheap heat that dies off during the match.

Wrong. I've seen him get good heat.

 

He is a poor worker who does not put on good matches and has had all his pushes fail. He sucks

You're wrong Bob. He can put on good matches. You just don't like him.

 

I'm not into slow boring matches myself.

The Benoit, Lesnar, Undertaker, matches weren't slow or boring.

 

I'd take a logical, believable, "slow boring" match over a meaningless, shallow, shitty spotfest any day.

 

Barron so owns this whole argument.

Thanks for adding so much to this debate. Keep up the good work.

 

 

I'm still waiting for a good reason why he sucks.

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Why did he not get over? Constant pushing/depushing creates apathy among fans. WWE is at fault.

 

No- He got depushed because his big push (the one that was aimed for already over Matt Hardy) BOMBED. The crowd did not respond to him except for the cheap heat.

 

It's boring TO YOU.

 

And to a majority of viewers and fans of WWE.

 

I guess a match needs a 1000 spots in it to be good.

 

So because I don't like a guy whose offence is boring and offers nothing of interest for the viewer- You immedately (sic) assume I have to see a spotfest to enjoy a match. Way to be completely ignorant and stereotypical Ray.

 

A-Train's matches offer nothing of interest to the viewer. His moveset is generic.

 

Yeah...that's why just a few days ago he was compared here to Bret/Owen/Benoit/Angle/Guerrero.

 

So because one poster is an idiot trapped in 2000 that automatically makes everyone love him? I'd love to see this post.

 

 

Go to wzforums.com, gamefaqs.com, lopforums.com, themayhem.com, or a dozen other forums. They also think he's a great wrestler.

 

Why do you even take any of those wrestling forums seriously?

 

And where are these "better" matches? I don't see them. Lance wrestles a weak, unrealistic style.

 

Storm v. Edge Summerslam 2001, Storm v. Booker T Nitro 2000, Storm v. RVD Winter 2002 are better then any A-Train match I've ever seen.

 

vs. Undertaker and vs. Lesnar stand out...

 

Which matches are you referring to? He's faced both men multiple times. Neither match has been any good.

 

Wrong. I've seen him get good heat.

 

All he gets are Shave Your Back chants- and utter silence.

 

You're wrong Bob. He can put on good matches. You just don't like him.

 

You know why I don't like him? Because he doesn't put on good matches.

 

The Benoit, Lesnar, Undertaker, matches weren't slow or boring.

 

So you enjoyed his 1 minute match v. Benoit in February?

 

He had two decent matches with Benoit earlier this year- that's the only time he's ever impressed me.

 

I'd take a logical, believable, "slow boring" match over a meaningless, shallow, shitty spotfest any day.

 

A-Train's matches aren't really that psychologically sound. I watch wrestling to be entertained- and A-Train doesn't entertain me.

 

I already gave you my reasons why I don't like A-Train's work. You're just too close minded to listen

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First of all, A-Train's push didn't bomb. He was getting over really well as an upper midcard heel and then the WWE just inexplicably started putting him on Velocity every week until people didn't give a shit anymore.

 

Second, I challenge you to find me one heel in the WWE that gets boos throughout their matches. It doesn't happen. When A-Train wrestles, he gets boos on his entrance, an occasional "shave your back" chant during the match, and usually a good pop for his opponents moves. People get into his matches and enjoy them.

 

Finally, his work is damn good. All his moves are crisp, and as often as not, he actually works on a body part. He's got good selling, and as far as I'm concerned he's definitely an above average all around worker.

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First of all, A-Train's push didn't bomb

 

You're right. A-Train's PUSHES bombed.

 

He was getting over really well as an upper midcard heel and then the WWE just inexplicably started putting him on Velocity every week until people didn't give a shit anymore.

 

After the thing with Edge- they had the Rumble- where everyone gets lost in the shuffle- and then he was back to being with Taker. That's pretty big.

 

Second, I challenge you to find me one heel in the WWE that gets boos throughout their matches.

 

It's not that A-Train doesn't get booed out of the building- it's that he gets NOTHING.

 

When A-Train wrestles, he gets boos on his entrance, an occasional "shave your back" chant during the match, and usually a good pop for his opponents moves. People get into his matches and enjoy them.

 

X-Pac heat, cheap heat, becuase he usually wrestles people who are much more over then him. I didn't see the crowd enjoying his Armageddon match.

 

 

Finally, his work is damn good. All his moves are crisp, and as often as not, he actually works on a body part. He's got good selling, and as far as I'm concerned he's definitely an above average all around worker.

 

If his work is damn good- then where are these good matches?

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Guest wildpegasus

WP-That's it. I'm absolutely sick of this A-Train dissing. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

 

Quote Bob Barron:

Yes- A-Train's offence does suck. It is boring. It gives the viewer no reason to get into a match. It is slow

 

WP-I don't understand how you can say this. A-Train has one of the most fun movesets in the WWE and pulls out more cool moves than just about anyone on the roster. (One thing I feel he should add though is the Vader punch/forearms in the corner) Watch those matches with Benoit again. Can you honostly say with a straight face you don't like the bycicle kick?

 

Quote BobBarron

Where did you hear he was a nice guy? When I met him he was a dick he didn't sign for any fans

 

WP-I've read he was a good guy.

 

Quote Bob Barron

If his work is damn good- then where are these good matches?

 

WP-Real enjoyable match with Lesnar, perhaps the Undertapper's best match since he came back, okay-good matches with Edge, did well with Mysterio (Which is hard to do because A-Train's so much bigger than Mysterio it exposes Rey's style, yet Train still did well), took part in the most enjoyable Kane matches I've seen in a long, long time and of course the aforementioned matches with Benoit. Let's not forget either that Train is a heel here and therefore responsable for a good portion of the quality of all these bouts. He was very good in the bouts against Benoit. Oh, and watch the No Mercy PPV. A-Train's going to turn some heads here. Odds are this match is going to surprise a lot of people. This'll be the match of the night.

 

Just one other thing I'd like to add. A-Train's one of those wrestlers you can tell is trying real hard to get better. "The eye of the tiger" so to speak. Now of course trying doesn't mean you're a great wrestler but what it does mean is that it shows A-Train has the heart to get better and probably will just because he wants it that bad. I only expect him to get better.

 

WP-I'd like to defend Storm here as well. More than anyone, I feel he's a victim of the WWE style. The rule that everyone has to punch/kick has hurt him big time. I remember back in the WCW back in 2000 he was turning out higher quality stuff than anyone there. He was one of the few guys I was sticking around to watch at the time and that was because he wasn't restricted by the cursed WWE style. I feel Lance does better work with the more technical, athletic wresters such as that great little scrimage he had with Regal, a couple of RVD's best matches and that awesome short match on Raw with Angle. Although "short" as well I'd put Storm's match with HHH on Smackdown as HHH's best match since his return at the Rumble. If Lance was on Smackdown right now going up againt the likes of Benoit, Eddie, Noble, Rey and Angle everyone would be praising him to the moon.

 

It'll be interesting to watch Lance now that he's a face as he'll be busting out his old "face" manuevers that he kept hidden away because he was a heel.

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A-Train has one of the most fun movesets in the WWE and pulls out more cool moves than just about anyone on the roster.

 

By fun do you mean slow, boring and generic? Yes the bicycle kick is a cool move but nothing else he does really interests me. His matches are just not good.

 

 

Can you honostly say with a straight face you don't like the bycicle kick?

 

One good move does not a good worker make.

 

I've read he was a good guy.

 

And I've actually met him- he was not a nice guy.

 

Real enjoyable match with Lesnar

 

Would be the match where Lesnar squashed him like a bug?

 

perhaps the Undertapper's best match since he came back

 

That's bullshit. Taker's match at Vengeance with Cena was far better then the dullfest at Summerslam. I've yet to have seen his SD! match with Angle but I heard that was great.

 

okay-good matches with Edge

 

I love Edge but those matches were dead when A-Train was on offence. I felt bad for Edge.

 

did well with Mysterio

 

Those matches weren't good- They were squashes.

 

took part in the most enjoyable Kane matches I've seen in a long, long time

 

All I remember about the Kane matches was that they were alright and Kane did a hurricarana. Kane's matches with Kurt Angle were better then his A-Train series.

 

and of course the aforementioned matches with Benoit.

 

Benoit selling for him and making him look like a million bucks helps.

 

Let's not forget either that Train is a heel here and therefore responsable for a good portion of the quality of all these bouts.

 

And none of those matches were very good.

 

He was very good in the bouts against Benoit.

 

Again- Benoit's willingness to sell.

 

Oh, and watch the No Mercy PPV. A-Train's going to turn some heads here. Odds are this match is going to surprise a lot of people. This'll be the match of the night.

 

I think the match will be decent- I hope Benoit has his working boots on.

 

Just one other thing I'd like to add. A-Train's one of those wrestlers you can tell is trying real hard to get better. "The eye of the tiger" so to speak. Now of course trying doesn't mean you're a great wrestler but what it does mean is that it shows A-Train has the heart to get better and probably will just because he wants it that bad. I only expect him to get better.

 

I hope he gets better as well- especially if Vince continues on pushing him.

 

I feel Lance does better work with the more technical, athletic wresters such as that great little scrimage he had with Regal, a couple of RVD's best matches and that awesome short match on Raw with Angle. Although "short" as well I'd put Storm's match with HHH on Smackdown as HHH's best match since his return at the Rumble. If Lance was on Smackdown right now going up againt the likes of Benoit, Eddie, Noble, Rey and Angle everyone would be praising him to the moon.

 

Lance has had some decent stuff since coming to the WWF but he doesn't have it anymore it seems. Damn shame too

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Guest wildpegasus

QUOTE

perhaps the Undertapper's best match since he came back

 

 

Quote Bob Barron

That's bullshit. Taker's match at Vengeance with Cena was far better then the dullfest at Summerslam. I've yet to have seen his SD! match with Angle but I heard that was great

 

WP-I'm talking about the Undertaker/A-Train match on Smackdown.

 

Quote Bob Barron

By fun do you mean slow, boring and generic? Yes the bicycle kick is a cool move but nothing else he does really interests me. His matches are just not good.

 

WP-We're just on opposite ends of the spectrum here. I love A-Train's moveset. And A-Train more than held his own against Benoit. Yes, Benoit's selling helped the matches by putting A-Train over as a monster but A-Train knew what he was doing in these matches.

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Guest RollingSambos

When you have a William Regal fan and an A-Train fan arguing about whether or not a wrestler is boring...can there really be a winner?

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I don't know if it's considered a guilty pleasure, but Stevie Night Heat. I just watch Heat to see what Stevie and Victoria are up to.

 

If you consider RVD a guilty pleasure, there you go.

 

I like comedy. There I said it. Not stupid humor, but I'm easily amused, so it's not hard for me to think something is funny.

 

I don't know why, but I enjoy watching Dawn Marie wrestle. I think she could make a pretty good wrestler.

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Big Show has always, and always will be, my number one guilty pleasure. I don't see the point of arguing over this topic, the title clearly states that we're discussing wrestlers you like, though they aren't all that good.

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As far as Albert's inability to get over, I agree that was more WWF's fault than his, because whenever they do push him, it's always quick and sudden with no real build up instead of slow and gradual, and as a result comes off looking forced. Of course people aren't gonna react well to him injuring Rey when the man was just sitting on Velocity for 6-8 months just prior to this. Same with his I-C Title run, which was probably the most half-assed attempt at a push I've ever seen. In about a two-month span, the belt went from HHH, one of the most over guys in the company at that point, to Albert, who prior to this worked about 5 or 6 months as X-Pac's bodyguard. How can you blame Albert for that not going over well? That's like if Funaki came out tonight and beat Brock Lesnar for the title. It'd get a pop, but most likely, it'd bomb, because Funaki hasn't been built as a credible threat. But you wouldn't blame Funaki for his inability to get over, you would (and should) blame management for putting him in such a position.

 

I honestly think if Albert was given more time to establish himself on shows before being thrown into upper card situations, his pushes would go over a lot better.

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I can't remember if this was the match Albert won the IC title, but his match against Kane on Smackdown in the summer of 2001 was way underrated.

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I can't remember if this was the match Albert won the IC title, but his match against Kane on Smackdown in the summer of 2001 was way underrated.

I think they had two matches, one where he beat Kane for the belt, and the second where he successfully defended it. I think the rematch was the one that people always talk about. I thought it was pretty good.

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Guest Plushy Al Logan

The Dungeon of Doom.

Nathan Jones- I have said it once, and I'll say it again. He is Zeus Version 2.0

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Guest Goodear
A-Train has one of the most fun movesets in the WWE and pulls out more cool moves than just about anyone on the roster.

 

By fun do you mean slow, boring and generic? Yes the bicycle kick is a cool move but nothing else he does really interests me. His matches are just not good.

I know that I'm known pretty much as the original A-Train freak so I'm going to stay out of this for the most part... but generic moveset? GENERIC MOVESET?

 

When was the last time you saw A-Train do these standard Hoss maneuvers?

-> Powerbomb?

-> One Handed Choke-Slam?

-> Spinebuster?

-> Side Suplex?

 

Answer: I don't know... years?

 

When was the last time you saw ANYONE ELSE on the roster use the moves Albert does?

-> Double Chickenwing Backbreaker?

-> Vaderbomb?

-> Muscle Buster?

-> Wheelbarrow chinlock slam?

-> Double Arm Suplex?

-> Double Arm Suplex into a Facebuster?

-> Over the shoulder backbreaker?

-> Two handed Chokeslam powerbomb?

 

Riddle me this.

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Guest Mulatto Heat

I think they had two matches, one where he beat Kane for the belt, and the second where he successfully defended it. I think the rematch was the one that people always talk about. I thought it was pretty good.

 

They had two SD! matches in June of 2001.

 

The first was where Kane successfully defended the IC title against Albert. That is the one that gets the acclaims, but it is often confused with the second match where Albert won the title after DDP interfered, in a match that wasn't as good as the first.

 

Oh, and watch the No Mercy PPV. A-Train's going to turn some heads here. Odds are this match is going to surprise a lot of people. This'll be the match of the night.

 

Let's not get too hasty here. I'm still waiting for A-Train's above average matches to go with his above average moveset. It certainly didn't happen at Summerslam.

Edited by Mulatto Heat

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Guest Choken One

Funny, You guys hate The fucker so much and yet will argue and debate about him to no fucking end...And we have this same arguement each fucking week.

 

Just like we have the "Benoit is better then Angle, No he isn't!" and the "RVD IS HELD DOWN! BUT HE SUCKS! NO HE DOESN'T!" Debate each week or the "WHAT'S A ***** MATCH? WHAT I SAY IS. NO IT ISN'T! MY OPINON IS BETTER!" diatribe every week as well...

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Guest Choken One

Wrestling Wise or Entertainment Wise because then it's a whole different ball park...

 

Wrestling wise, Benoit but Total Package wise, Angle has a advantage of charisma and Personality and flexibility of character.

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