Heavyweights of the 90's

[Guest CB2M]

Here goes:

 

1.  Kobashi

2.  Kawada

3.  Misawa

4.  Michaels

5.  Vader

6.  Tsuruta

7.  Mutoh

8.  Bret Hart

9.  Austin

10. Hashimoto

[Guest Hoyakillah]

1.  Kawada

2.  Misawa

3.  Austin

4.  Tsuruta

5.  Vader

6.  Flair (90-96)

7.  Kobashi

8.  Bret Hart

9.  Taue

10. Mutoh

[Guest Misawa Da Man]

1. Misawa

2. Kawada

3. Kobashi

4. Hashimoto

5. Tseruta (only because he was only near his best for 2/3 years in the 90s)

6. Taue

7. Bret HArt

8. Muto

9. Chono

10. Austin

[Guest Midnight Express]

1) Michaels

2) Mutoh

3) Kawada

4) Misawa

5) Vader

6) Hart

7) Chono

8) Austin

9) Kobashi

10) Flair

[Guest Misawa Da Man]

Michaels?!?

[Guest Midnight Express]

Indeed - I abswered this as my fave wrestlers list and HBK is number one. Ever since SSeries 1988 I was a fan. I never had the net while he was active so I never knew about his backstage stuff. I just watched and enjoyed. I don't intend to retroactively dislike his stuff now I have heard he was a pain backstage. I only got into Puro recently so for a good 10 years Michaels was my fave.

[Guest Misawa Da Man]

Oh... I thought you were saying he was the best heavyweight of the 1990s. Thank God for that. Oh, Princess Margaret died, YES, but why couldn't it have been the Queen?

[Guest Midnight Express]

From what I saw he was. It's all down to peronal taste and opinion though. At the time I liked all the WWF show and razzle dazzle.

 

I'm not gonna take anything away from HBK though, I still love his matches and were he still 100% fit and active today I have no doubt he'd still be my fave. Though he;s have to have had an amazing year to beat Mutoh in my mind as number one and that probably wouldn't have been possible in theWWF.

[Guest Misawa Da Man]

Seriously...???

 

I mean, I watched mid-90s WWF to and it always seemed Michaels would forget any direction the match had earlier. Plus, with him stamping his feet, it was ALWAYS poor psychology when he hit his savate kick.

[Guest Midnight Express]

To be perfectly homest with you - I quite happily watched wrestling for about 22 years without the worry of levels of match psychology even entering my mind.

 

It's only in the last 6 months that I have thought about it and even now I don't think about it too much as I find it narrows the field of enjoyment if I critique the matches so harshly.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

1- Kawada

2- Misawa

3- Tsuruta

4- Kobashi

5- Taue

 

After that, I don't know who and where I would put my 6-10 picks.

 

Tim

[Guest thefrenchargel]

I don't get everyone's thing with Taue. I can't stand watching the guy. He's really awkward, and the only good matches I've seen him in were against Misawa, Kobashi, and Kawada.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

1. Austin

2. Misawa

3. Rock

4. Kobashi

5. Angle

 

and after that, i just get stuck...

[Guest Jubuki]

Gotta love the ol' "don't think too much" posts...

 

Fuck 'best' -- it isn't as though making a list and checking it twice will A) change anyone else's opinion, B) give newbies some great starting point, or C) make headway in any debate.  Lists are stupid.

 

Why do the wrestlers mean something to you?  What makes them matter?  It's the one thing that we can all be experts on.

[Guest goodhelmet]

"Lists are stupid."

 

In that case...

 

1. Kawada

2. Misawa

3. Kobashi

4. Hart

5. Austin

[Guest CB2M]

3. Rock

4. Kobashi

That's a good one, but where's the punchline?

[Guest thefrenchargel]

Rock over Kobashi..heh heh. Putting Angle in a "Best of the 90's" list doesn't make too much sense either, considering everything he did in the 90's as far as TV and PPV goes were short matches against Stasiak, Blackman, and other low-level WWF guys. I mean, he didn't even debut until LATE 99. how can he be one of the 5 best of the 90's? Putting Rock in there is just ridiculous though. Surprised no one gave any props to Foley. The guy always brought out the best in his opponent.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

Oops, forgot Foley, shoot me now. Replace Angle with Foley in my list I suppose.

 

Just to clarify The Rock thing; my list is based on who has entertained me the most because the aim of wrestling is to entertain people. Rock has entertained me more than Kobashi, therefore he is above him. I put Angle there because he's the only guy that came to mind, as a person who doesn't really have many favourites I got a bit stuck who to put on the list, which is why I didn't finish the top 10.

[Guest Misawa Da Man]

So, the Rock is more entertaining than Kobashi?!?!?!? WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?

 

Plus, IMO, wreslting is an ART FORM which people find entertaining.

[Guest goodhelmet]

i have to agree with Misawa here. I don't speak Japanese but I find them more entertaining than American wrestlers even when they're speaking. Hey, I don't mind the Rock but Kobashi is the shits and any list should not have Rock over Kobashi.

 

Yes, wrestling is ART!!!

[Guest MrDanger]

1) Toshiaki Kawada

2) Mitsuharu Misawa

3) Shawn Michaels

4) Kenta Kobashi

5) Steve Austin

6) Shinya Hashimoto

7) Bret Hart

8) Big Van Vader

9) Mick Foley

10) Akira Taue

 

I want to include Jumbo and Flair purely on principle but they just didn't make the cut.

[Guest BobbyBacklund]

1) Bret Hart

2) Foley

3) Misawa

4) Kobashi

5) Benoit( Would he count?)

6) Kawada

7) Austin

8) Muto

9) Hashimoto

10) Tseruta

 

I know this with some North American bias, but I can't watch a match without having the personalities of the characters involved. You must admit that it will make it more interesting. I obviously prefer wrestling over storylines, but I want the wrestlers to have some semblance of character as well.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

Of course wrestling is an art form...

 

Look, it comes down to this: In Japan, the audience is entertained by stiffness, good psychology and top work rate, therefore their wrestlers must be judged on those points as that is what they are trying to acheive.

 

In America, the audience is entertained by great promos, a clear heel / face dyanamic, psychology which is a lot less deep than their Japanese counterparts (but no less valid) and big spotty moves, therefore their wrestlers must be judged on these points as that is what they are trying to acheive.

 

I'm entertained by both styles so therefore I was forced to mix Japanese wrestlers with American ones in my list, but im going to judge them on their individual merits. Alright, so Rock can't compare with Kobashi when it comes to good psychology and top work rate, but he beats him hands down when it comes to good promos and the heel / face dynamic. Because this list is a composite of both styles, I have to compare people on their relative merits, therefore, Rock is above Kobashi.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"Alright, so Rock can't compare with Kobashi when it comes to good psychology and top work rate, but he beats him hands down when it comes to good promos and the heel / face dynamic. Because this list is a composite of both styles, I have to compare people on their relative merits, therefore, Rock is above Kobashi."

 

So when it comes down to your personal tastes, you judge the Rock higher than Kobashi based on Mic Skills?  That is fine and all but then you say "Because this list is a composite of both styles, I have to compare people on their relative merits, therefore, Rock is above Kobashi."  You make zero claim as to why Rock is a better wrestler than Kobashi, even to yourself.

 

Tim

[Guest PlatypusFool]

No, i judge Rock higher than Kobashi because he is better at entertaining American fans than Kobashi is at entertaining Japanese fans.

 

And I never said Rock was a good wrestler, he's a great entertainer though, and, since thats what the aim of wrestling is these days, I suppose that makes him a great wrestler as well.

 

Hey, im thinking on my feet here guys *shrugs*

[Guest MRFTW]

"In America, the audience is entertained by great promos, a clear heel / face dyanamic, psychology which is a lot less deep than their Japanese counterparts"

 

Eh, I wouldn't even say that's what American fans like, i'd just say that's what WWF fans like. Thinking about it i'd bet there's just as many people in Amercia that like wrestling but don't watch the WWF as there are that do watch it.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"No, i judge Rock higher than Kobashi because he is better at entertaining American fans than Kobashi is at entertaining Japanese fans."

 

And you come to this conclusion how?

 

Tim

[Guest PlatypusFool]

Because Rock entertains me more - jeez dude, how did you think I came to that conclusion.

 

Look, I may have used the wrong filler words and came across wrong with what I mean, and I refuse to argue ever so slight grammatical errors in my posts, cos thats just pointless. The fact of the matter is, is that lists of this type are 100% subjective and I, personally, prefer Rock to Kobashi and you dont. End of discussion.

 

*shrugs* its only a list anyway

[Guest Frank Zappa Mask]

1. Steve Austin

2. Mitsuharu Misawa

3. Mick Foley

4. Toshiaki Kawada

5. Kenta Kobashi

6. Bret Hart

7. Shawn Michaels

8. Vader

9. Chris Benoit

10. Scott Hall......no, wait.....Keiji Mutoh

 

UHWAHHHHHHHHHHH~!

[Guest NineSpiral]

okei here's mine:

 

1) Mitsuharu Misawa (who had more ***** matches in both singles and tag?)

2) Toshiaki Kawada (easily the most versatile guy on the list)

3) Bret Hart (he's called the excellence of execution for a reason)

4) Kenta Kobashi (had the best year ever in the 90's - Kobashi 1993 is simply incredible)

5) Mick Foley (people say it's Brody, but I think Foley = best brawler ever)

6) Steve Austin (WHAT?)

7) Shin'ya Hashimoto (the guy who made NJPW mean more than good juniors matches)

8) Jumbo Tsuruta (my #1 for the 2 decades before this, and his early 90's stuff is some of the best of the decade)

9) Shawn Michaels (in his prime his bumping could have carried Giant Gonzales to something half watchable)

10) Mr. Gannosuke (my sleeper pick - what can i say, i'm a huge mark for the guy so maybe I'm biased, but the guy is absolutely incredible, and so underrated.)

 

Jason