Words of tizzurd:it shouldn't be this way

[Guest]

Sports Entertainment is two words often used when talking about professional wrestling these days. But the problem is many people mistake this description as what wrestling really is, but that is not the case. It is simply what has been moulded to make wrestling the mainstream success it is today. Thanks to this honour (or lack of) go to intelligent businessman, Vince McMahon.

 

Vince is the man who took professional wrestling from the underground viewing hobby to a mainstream success. For this honour he deserves some credit, but I’m sure the money would be enough of a credit for anyone. But the realisation is that what Vince McMahon did, changed the appearance of wrestling for the worst. It may have seemed that the once active war between the World Wrestling Federation and World Championship Wrestling was one of two alternative products fighting for the number one spot. But once again, that was not the case. Vince made Sports Entertainment and presented it in the WWF, but were WCW really doing anything different? During the famous Monday night wars, both major companies were selling the same thing. Can anyone really say that WCW wasn’t Sports Entertainment? Can anyone say that the negatively famous World title win of David Arquette wasn’t in the name of Sports Entertainment? Truth is, the WWF won the war long before WCW’s demise. WCW was simply copying the WWF’s methods in an attempt to beat them.

 

So now professional wrestling is no longer an underground thing. It is no longer a passion only viewed behind closed doors. Wrestling has been coated in Sports Entertainment and the Mainstreams stuck to it. And this is where the problem escalates. We now know Sports Entertainment sells, so of course the businessman, Vince McMahon is going to use this to his advantage. Enter the Rock, enter Stone Cold, enter untalented wrestlers carried by the influence of Sports Entertainment and unlimited pushes to the top of the company. Is this is what wrestling has became? No it is not, but it is what is recognised as wrestling to the majority, to the mainstreams. You know the guys I’m talking about? Those uninformed people that would rather hear someone spew out a played out catch phrase rather than an excellent display of athleticism. These are the people that will come and go as professional wrestling goes through its ups and downs, and they are the ones the product is now aimed at.

 

So what is the problem you may ask? Well why don’t you ask people like Lance Storm? People like Chris Beniot? People like Tommy Dreamer? People like D-Lo Brown? The list goes on. Don’t understand? Allow me to explain. These are the type of people that are actually skilled in the wrestling business. These are the type of the people that should therefore be positioned high in the business and reaping the rewards. But because of what is now recognised as wrestling, these people are left out. They don’t fit in with phrase spewing Rock’s and the rebel Austin’s. Quite simply, talented wrestler’s don’t fit in well with professional wrestling anymore. It sounds absurd, doesn’t it? It does to me, but that is the unfortunate reality.

 

So now what is left for the true fans of ‘wrestling’? Those of us that want to see athleticism at its best. Those of us that want to see one skilled manoeuvre moving into the next and the next and the next. What are we to do now? We can’t all by a plane ticket to Japan to watch the likes of AJPW. And joining hands in a circle and singing “Everybody Hurts” may have seemed a good idea at the time, but really who can remember all the words? To put it in wrestling terms, it seems we’ve been ‘screwed’.

 

Why do people think Extreme Championship Wrestling was such a hit with the true fans? The regional promotion that made it to a national federation, complete with PPV’s and a cable show on TNN. ECW was a real alternative. It broke the mould of Sports Entertainment and displayed a product that was more ‘wrestling’ than the big two (& WCW) combined. But alas, the influence of Sports Entertainment was too strong and ECW was forced into bankruptcy in March of 2001.

 

Quite simply, it shouldn’t be this way. Real wrestlers shouldn’t have to struggle to be noticed while any loser with a catch phrase can put out his own T-shirt. It is possible that wrestling could one day lose the cover of Sports Entertainment and go back to what it should be. But with the barrage of mainstream fans desperate to hear a catchphrase or buy an associated T-shirt, it seems ‘wrestling’ has sold out forever.

[Guest]

??? bEeUmPz

[Guest Goodear]

But the realisation is that what Vince McMahon did, changed the appearance of wrestling for the worst. It may have seemed that the once active war between the World Wrestling Federation and World Championship Wrestling was one of two alternative products fighting for the number one spot. But once again, that was not the case. Vince made Sports Entertainment and presented it in the WWF, but were WCW really doing anything different? During the famous Monday night wars, both major companies were selling the same thing. Can anyone really say that WCW wasn’t Sports Entertainment? Can anyone say that the negatively famous World title win of David Arquette wasn’t in the name of Sports Entertainment? Truth is, the WWF won the war long before WCW’s demise. WCW was simply copying the WWF’s methods in an attempt to beat them.

 

 Fair enough.  WCW and WWF were never really that different  from the get go to be honest.  Sure the WWF had a bit more of a cartoon attitude with guys like Hogan and Warrior at the top while WCW had a little bit more of a harder edge with Flair running the show.  But both federations also had the elements that the other would claim as "theirs" what with Ted DiBiase and Randy Savage running around the WWF having solid matches with everyone while WCW had guys like Sting and Rick Steiner bringing a more larger-than-life character to their company.

 

 To me, the only real difference between WWF and WCW has always been who was on which roster and who was booking the thing.  WCW lost the war because they couldn't find someone with vision who could keep the personalities in line and keep the product fresh and interesting.  Anyway, on with the rest of the story...

 

So now professional wrestling is no longer an underground thing. It is no longer a passion only viewed behind closed doors. Wrestling has been coated in Sports Entertainment and the Mainstreams stuck to it. And this is where the problem escalates. We now know Sports Entertainment sells, so of course the businessman, Vince McMahon is going to use this to his advantage.

 

Uhm yeah, making money is bad.  You do realize thats what keeps any sort of wrestling on TV where you can see it?  Being mainstream allows for wrestling to come into your house every week, regardless of what you might think of its evil.

 

Enter the Rock, enter Stone Cold, enter untalented wrestlers carried by the influence of Sports Entertainment and unlimited pushes to the top of the company.

 

Rock and Austin are untalented? ??? Wow.  Like wow.  Okay, I don't know what to say to that at all except you must have extraordinary high expectations about talent.

 

Is this is what wrestling has became? No it is not, but it is what is recognised as wrestling to the majority, to the mainstreams. You know the guys I’m talking about? Those uninformed people that would rather hear someone spew out a played out catch phrase rather than an excellent display of athleticism. These are the people that will come and go as professional wrestling goes through its ups and downs, and they are the ones the product is now aimed at.

 

Well yeah, they don't have to do a whole lot to keep the superfans.  Thats why they are superfans.  The sad fact is that the hardcore fans aren't a big enough audience to keep wrestling afloat unless federations can pull in the larger mainstream fans in addition to the hardcore fans.  

 

So what is the problem you may ask? Well why don’t you ask people like Lance Storm? People like Chris Beniot? People like Tommy Dreamer? People like D-Lo Brown? The list goes on. Don’t understand? Allow me to explain. These are the type of people that are actually skilled in the wrestling business. These are the type of the people that should therefore be positioned high in the business and reaping the rewards. But because of what is now recognised as wrestling, these people are left out. They don’t fit in with phrase spewing Rock’s and the rebel Austin’s. Quite simply, talented wrestler’s don’t fit in well with professional wrestling anymore. It sounds absurd, doesn’t it? It does to me, but that is the unfortunate reality.

 

Okay, so Tommy Dreamer and D'Lo Brown are talented but Stone Cold and The Rock aren't?  Damn. ??? Maybe I should explain something to you before I go any farther.  If a worker cannot draw a casual fan into his matches and I'm not saying that the people you mentioned can't, they aren't great workers.  See, casual fans like catchphrases ... this much is true.  But they also like watching wrestling.... no really.  Maybe they wouldn't understand why Vince McMahon would use a double chickenwing on Ric Flair, but they do like to be drawn into matches by both interesting characters and dramatic moments. And if I can be serious for a moment, you bettah recognize that all the guys you mentioned have/had catchphrases too.  Prove me wrong.  Sorry I couldn't work EC F'N W into my responce.

 

Why do people think Extreme Championship Wrestling was such a hit with the true fans? The regional promotion that made it to a national federation, complete with PPV’s and a cable show on TNN. ECW was a real alternative. It broke the mould of Sports Entertainment and displayed a product that was more ‘wrestling’ than the big two (& WCW) combined. But alas, the influence of Sports Entertainment was too strong and ECW was forced into bankruptcy in March of 2001.

 

I love it when people bring up issues and answer them themselves.  Notice that ECW went out of business.  Doesn't that lend itself to the idea that you have to apeal to the mainstream to stay around?  The same exact thing happened to Smokey Mountain Wrestling, Global, and the USWA.  The message to promoters is pretty clear, go mainstream or go home.

 

Quite simply, it shouldn’t be this way. Real wrestlers shouldn’t have to struggle to be noticed while any loser with a catch phrase can put out his own T-shirt. It is possible that wrestling could one day lose the cover of Sports Entertainment and go back to what it should be. But with the barrage of mainstream fans desperate to hear a catchphrase or buy an associated T-shirt, it seems ‘wrestling’ has sold out forever.

 

Look sport, let me say one more thing in closing.  All those T-shirts that you don't seem to like?  They are what allows these great athletes to actually get paid to ruin their bodies for your amusement.  They old days might have been all romantic for you, but the actuall workers got the crap knocked out of their bodies for little compensation.  If thats selling out, consider the price the workers have to pay.

[Guest Maurizio C... Version 2]

D'lo a better worker than Austin?! Tommy F'N Dreamer a better talent than Rock?! WHAT?! WHAT! WHAT! WHAT! WHAT!!!!

 

See, Tizzurd, I'm gonna tell ya a little secret... come here, I'm gonna whisper it in your ear... highspots and suicide dives don't equal good wrestling.

 

Sure, D'lo can jump from any part of the ring and his frog splash is awesome. yet he ain't got psychology. He's one of the first of the new breed of *hit and run* wrestlers like Edge, Christian, the Hardy Boyz, etc. You know, the fast guys that once hit just stand up immediately for another sequence.

 

I'm with you on Rock. he's a good wrestler but his is essentialy a Hollywood style of wrestling. His moves and his selling is almost theatrical and a little bit overrated (but you gotta love how he sells the stunner!), yet he's gone the distance with HHH, had a passable match with Hogan and many great bouts with Austin.

 

Wanna see some good wrestling? Go back and watch Flair vs Undertaker. I know, people will complain "Hey, maurizio, that was just punch, kick, kick, punch" and that is true, they essentialy beat up each other for half an hour.

 

But the selling is awesome. I mean, I saw more selling from Flair in one match than an entire wwf year! The way Flair sells the superplex from the turnbuckle is great! THAT's psychology, THAT's great wrestling.

 

You know why D'lo is in the Caribbeans (or where the fuck he is anyway)? Why half the former wcw roster is in the developmental territories? because they're just abl to contribute half of what's expected from a good wrestler. Sure, it was funny when 123 Kid was jumping all around with razor Ramon and shit. It was surely a relief from The Skinners and Crushes and Repo Men, but now it's just that!

 

At least Austin, Rock, HHH and some main eventer try to bring some psychology into the wwf.

 

But hey, isn't this the era of "No Transition needed" RVD?

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Hey now.... D'Lo's a pretty talented wrestler, just that he(and a majority of the midcard for that matter) don't have that "it" to connect with the fans on.

[Guest]

I understand all of what your saying and I know the WWF will never step back to a 'wrestling' company, but that doesn't mean I can't want it too.

The Rock and Austin are untalented WRESTLERS. I'm not talking about sports entertainment, and I don't give a crap how many catch phrases they can spew a night. The subject of this post is 'wrestling' because that's what I prefer to Sports Entertainment. I never said get rid of it, but at least save some space for wrestling.

I'd prefer Dean Malenko vs. Perry saturn to Rock vs. Austin. I know it'll never become that way, due to the money they'll lose, but can't we at least have a happy medium? Can't the true fans get something in return for their dedication? Can't the World WRESTLING Federation give us ... oh say wrestling?

[Guest Maurizio C... Version 2]

Austin IS a good WRESTLER. remember his wcw bout with Dustin Rhodes and Steamboat?

[Guest areacode212]

I understand all of what your saying and I know the WWF will never step back to a 'wrestling' company, but that doesn't mean I can't want it too.

The Rock and Austin are untalented WRESTLERS. I'm not talking about sports entertainment, and I don't give a crap how many catch phrases they can spew a night. The subject of this post is 'wrestling' because that's what I prefer to Sports Entertainment. I never said get rid of it, but at least save some space for wrestling.

I'd prefer Dean Malenko vs. Perry saturn to Rock vs. Austin. I know it'll never become that way, due to the money they'll lose, but can't we at least have a happy medium? Can't the true fans get something in return for their dedication? Can't the World WRESTLING Federation give us ... oh say wrestling?

Um, have you ever actually SEEN an Austin match, or are you assuming that

 

popular wrestler w/catchphrases == untalented wrestler?

 

I won't unload on you too harshly since I'm tired and you're new to the board, but it's pretty hard to take your statements seriously when you call Austin "untalented", then turn around and hold up TOMMY DREAMER, of all people, as an example of someone who's "skilled in the wrestling business". Just because Rock and Austin are good "sports entertainers" and have coined a ton of catchphrases doesn't necessarily make them bad wrestlers. You don't even have to look very far (any of the Angle/Austin matches from last year) to see how good SCSA is.

[Guest razazteca]

Well as someone from the board used to say "YOUR PREACHING TO THE CHOIR"

 

I see your point but your perspective seems to be skewed in a way that seems to be anti-smark if you will.  Of course everybody has their personal opinion but yours seem to have some faws in it.  Such as picking D-Lo and Tommy Dreamer as favorite talented workers, I see this to be sarcasm, intentional or not I find it to be humorous.  Well D-Lo is the poster child for the talented sloppy wrestler while Dreamer is the Innovator of Hardcore.

 

I agree with you on there should be more wrestling with less of the usual SE material but you seem "to be asking for it"  just to put yourself over here on the board.  Are you a mole for the WWF  Are you a member of the McMahon clan undercover looking to work this board?

 

Am I making any sense, does this make any sense, do complaining the same arguement get anywhere, maybe so maybe not, may be the Chewbaca defense work maybe it doesnt.

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

Austin an untalented wrestler? WTF?

 

I'd rather see Rock v Austin than Saturn v Malenko.

[Guest Maurizio C... Version 2]

Tizzurd, not a good start, pal...

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

Hell, go back to last summer and Austin's heel matches w/ Benoit & Angle.  Austin was actually wrestling moreso than sticking to the punch/kick/stunner formula.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"Austin are untalented WRESTLERS"

 

Austin is one of three reasons why the WWF is actually worth two shits in my book.  The other two are Benoit and hopefully Eddy.

 

As for Rock, he isn't great but he does draw.  

 

As for Tommy Dreamer being over some of the guys you listed, may I suggest laying off the bong.

 

Tim

[Guest]

Tizzurd..

 

Sigh