PHIL 104 Homework assignment

[Perfxion 0]

This past Wednesday, my professor gave our class an assignment that was really fucked up but really thought provoking.

 

Two questions: One for people who are pro choice, one for people who are for people who are pro life.

 

Pro Life question: An 11 year old daughter was raped by her father and is now pregnant, she is extremely under-developed in the sense that she is in the early stages of puberty and having the kid would more than likely mean death for both parties. Should she be allowed to have an abortion? Why or why not?

 

Pro Choice question: A 28 year old woman is pregnant and has money and time to raise a kid. She has over 600 thousand in the bank saved. She has slept with 3 people in the past week. Her main reason for getting it is because of the men was ugly. She has had an abortion on two different occasions. Should she be allowed to have yet another abortion? Why or why not?

[Ripper 0]

This past Wednesday, my professor gave our class an assignment that was really fucked up but really thought provoking.

 

Two questions: One for people who are pro choice, one for people who are for people who are pro life.

 

Pro Life question: An 11 year old daughter was raped by her father and is now pregnant, she is extremely under-developed in the sense that she is in the early stages of puberty and having the kid would more than likely mean death for both parties. Should she be allowed to have an abortion? Why or why not?

 

Pro Choice question: A 28 year old woman is pregnant and has money and time to raise a kid. She has over 600 thousand in the bank saved. She has slept with 3 people in the past week. Her main reason for getting it is because of the men was ugly. She has had an abortion on two different occasions. Should she be allowed to have yet another abortion? Why or why not?

I'll answer both:

 

A: Yes, she should be able to. This child should be able to lead a normal life and this pregnacy threatens that. Her life could be in danger due to the pregnancy and she is not emotionally ready to handle a child.

 

B: Yes, she should. The womans promiscuity is irrelevant to this. Her reasoning for not wanting the child shows her lack of maturity and is certainly not the type of person you would want raising a child. Once again, she lacks the mental competance to raise a child, despite having money, which means next to nothing in the raising of a healthy, balanced child.

[Firestarter 0]

...

 

Clever and amusing sophistry. Not saying you're right or wrong; your second answer just made me chuckle.

[Perfxion 0]

Ripper, she is using it as birth control, her problem would be solved by wearing a fucking condom. The first question there is nothing to really debate with you. But she needs to learn to close her legs. Why kill off a baby because she wants to fuck around without worrying about life. She made the bed, she should sleep in it, no pun intended.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

Ripper, she is using it as birth control, her problem would be solved by wearing a fucking condom. The first question there is nothing to really debate with you. But she needs to learn to close her legs. Why kill off a baby because she wants to fuck around without worrying about life. She made the bed, she should sleep in it, no pun intended.

So, she should be forced to have a child she doesn't want, yeah?

 

In my view, she shouldn't be having that kid. If that means she gets an abortion, so be it.

[Ripper 0]

Ripper, she is using it as birth control, her problem would be solved by wearing a fucking condom. The first question there is nothing to really debate with you. But she needs to learn to close her legs. Why kill off a baby because she wants to fuck around without worrying about life. She made the bed, she should sleep in it, no pun intended.

See that is the bullshit of the argument for me. People bring into question her judgement, blah blah blah legs shut, but then in the same breath say, hey, you should raise a child.

 

So if a woman came in a adoption agency and said, "I really like to have lots of sex, and like a variety of men to explore sexually, don't believe in using condoms or birth control and think that a persons looks is one of the more important things in the world...can I have a newborn infant?" they should give it to her because she has money?

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

I'm not going to make a personal response, but instead a suggestion: decide your personal point of view on one of the topics, and argue the other way. Arguing from a Devil's advocate position will cause you to keep your focus on the facts, rules of logic, and a more impartial analysis of the argument. Arguing in favor of a position you feel strongly for, on the other hand, is much more likely to draw your feelings and emotions into the debate, which is usually not what the teacher is looking for.

[Firestarter 0]

I second that. That's a great idea.

[Ripper 0]

Thats what I was taught to do. I do that here all the time. 95% of the time, I don't even agree with what I am arguing. Its just more fun.

Edited October 13, 2003 by Ripper

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Odd. We never did anything involving "abortion" (research papers, test questions) in school -- I guess because we had a plethora of Jesus Chicks that would come at the teacher with both barrels blazing or something.

 

Of course the answer to both questions is yes -- since the United States allows the procedure of slaughtering unborn babies to go on...

[Guest The Old Me]

I am pro choice and I'd have to agree that yes the 28 year old should have the abortion. While it does appear as a form of birth control, she does not have the capacity either mentally or emotionally to raise a child in a healthy envoirnment.

[Ripper 0]

Now I'm guessing...and this is just a assumption, that you are against abortion(this is to KKK since NewMe came in while I was writeing this...*shakes fist*).

 

So my adoption question still stands. If a woman came in a adoption agency and when they said tell me about yourself she said:

 

Well, I am single, although I do like to have lots and lots of sex. I really enjoy the act. I try to have sex with multiple partners, so I can have a variation. I don't really use condoms because it takes all the feeling away. And birth control pills will make me gain weight and thats a bigger thing than a abortion...its tough to lose that weight. And seriously, if you gain weight, you are pretty much ugly and who wants to be fat?"

 

Would YOU give her a newborn infant? Since this seems to be the portrait of a woman having a abortion that lots of people want to believe in(the unwed woman that keeps her legs open but doesn't want to use birth control for cosmetic reasons).

 

If you wouldn't give this woman a child to adopt, why is it okay for her to have her own?

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Ripper, she is using it as birth control, her problem would be solved by wearing a fucking condom.  The first question there is nothing to really debate with you. But she needs to learn to close her legs. Why kill off a baby because she wants to fuck around without worrying about life. She made the bed, she should sleep in it, no pun intended.

So, she should be forced to have a child she doesn't want, yeah?

 

In my view, she shouldn't be having that kid. If that means she gets an abortion, so be it.

Give the kid up for adoption. Killing a baby because the mother is stupid is...stupid.

 

So my adoption question still stands. If a woman came in a adoption agency and when they said tell me about yourself she said:

 

Well, I am single, although I do like to have lots and lots of sex. I really enjoy the act. I try to have sex with multiple partners, so I can have a variation. I don't really use condoms because it takes all the feeling away. And birth control pills will make me gain weight and thats a bigger thing than a abortion...its tough to lose that weight. And seriously, if you gain weight, you are pretty much ugly and who wants to be fat?"

 

Would YOU give her a newborn infant? Since this seems to be the portrait of a woman having a abortion that lots of people want to believe in(the unwed woman that keeps her legs open but doesn't want to use birth control for cosmetic reasons).

 

If you wouldn't give this woman a child to adopt, why is it okay for her to have her own?

 

Ripper what the hell are you talking about? We're not talking about letting the girl who likes sex adopt...we're talking about her giving the baby up for adoption.

Edited October 13, 2003 by LaParkaYourCar

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Now I'm guessing...and this is just a assumption, that you are against abortion(this is to KKK since NewMe came in while I was writeing this...*shakes fist*).

 

So my adoption question still stands...

Ripper, I learned a long time ago not to touch the abortion issue with a 10-foot pole. However, when I do mention it I don't mince my words regarding it. My abortion stance can be broken down into three components:

 

1) I don't believe in it.

 

2) It's legal.

 

3) People that wave aborted fetus plush dolls outside of Planned Parenthoods hurt the pro-life cause.

 

Regarding your adoption question, I sure as hell wouldn't give her one of my cats...

[Cartman 0]

All I can say is that the only time I think Abotions should happen are in the instances of:

 

1. Rape

2. Unborn child has terminal illness or some sort.

3. Pregnancy would put mother's life in danger.

[Guest stardust]

Hmmm

 

The 11-year-old should by all means be allowed to have an abortion.

 

As for the 28-year-old...as someone who is pro-choice, I think that she should have the option to get an abortion, even if I don't agree with her using it as birth control. It may not be the wisest or most mature choice (but neither was her not using birth control in the first place), but it is her choice to make. Yes, my initial reaction is "she should give the baby up for adoption," but that would be a choice I would make, but that a lot of other people wouldn't make. What it boils down to is that she has choices here, and it's her decision to make, no matter how much everyone else (including myself) might disagree with it.

[Ripper 0]

Ripper, she is using it as birth control, her problem would be solved by wearing a fucking condom.  The first question there is nothing to really debate with you. But she needs to learn to close her legs. Why kill off a baby because she wants to fuck around without worrying about life. She made the bed, she should sleep in it, no pun intended.

So, she should be forced to have a child she doesn't want, yeah?

 

In my view, she shouldn't be having that kid. If that means she gets an abortion, so be it.

Give the kid up for adoption. Killing a baby because the mother is stupid is...stupid.

 

So my adoption question still stands. If a woman came in a adoption agency and when they said tell me about yourself she said:

 

Well, I am single, although I do like to have lots and lots of sex. I really enjoy the act. I try to have sex with multiple partners, so I can have a variation. I don't really use condoms because it takes all the feeling away. And birth control pills will make me gain weight and thats a bigger thing than a abortion...its tough to lose that weight. And seriously, if you gain weight, you are pretty much ugly and who wants to be fat?"

 

Would YOU give her a newborn infant? Since this seems to be the portrait of a woman having a abortion that lots of people want to believe in(the unwed woman that keeps her legs open but doesn't want to use birth control for cosmetic reasons).

 

If you wouldn't give this woman a child to adopt, why is it okay for her to have her own?

 

Ripper what the hell are you talking about? We're not talking about letting the girl who likes sex adopt...we're talking about her giving the baby up for adoption.

Sorry, but the "give the child up for adoption" issue is not a realistic answer. If you take the number of abortions a year and place those children into the adoption system...lets just say that there isn't enough money to feed and raise all of these children, especially in here where the adoption rate is pretty low. It sounds good and all, but its the same as not giving kids condoms and say don't have sex as a method to stop teenage pregnancy. In theory, it works, but in action, it isn't.

 

I just hate hearing people say "Own up to your mistakes and take on your responsibilities" and tell a woman that they wouldn't see fit to adopt a infant should be in control of a infants life because they are pregnant with one.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Sorry, but the "give the child up for adoption" issue is not a realistic answer. If you take the number of abortions a year and place those children into the adoption system...lets just say that there isn't enough money to feed and raise all of these children, especially in here where the adoption rate is pretty low. It sounds good and all, but its the same as not giving kids condoms and say don't have sex as a method to stop teenage pregnancy. In theory, it works, but in action, it isn't.

Wow, I have to say that I've never even thought of that argument and it's a damned good one.

 

Kudos.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I think the second woman should begin to consider preventional methods of birth control before abortion. Whatever Ripper spouts off to the contrary, common sense is still a good thing.

 

I also think the second woman should grow the fuck up, because in the real world actions have consequences. Having THREE abortions and not giving it a second thought (and people saying this is okay) is scary. Because if she's had three... where does it end. Privileges in society can be abused and perhaps there should be laws limiting the number of abortions one can have.

 

For the record, I am Pro-Choice.

[TSA09 0]

I am very much pro choice, however using abortion as a form of birth control isn't right. Sure you can argue all the views about why she should be able to, but the best option, in my opinion, is to put the kid up for adoption (I have had friends do this) and there are people out there that can't have kids and want to adopt. Let those people who can't have kids have the option of being able to adopt a child. It's not his fault his mom didn't use a condom because she didn't want to. If you are responsible enough to have sex, then you should be responsible enough to use a fucking condom.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

I'm in favor of RESPONSIBLE pro-choice.

 

Women shouldn't have to bear children that may cause their death or the death of said child. If the mother is unable to look after the child (as is the father) then adoption should be first considered.

 

It's an awful thing to decide and tears apart relationships. I know from personal experince.

 

Here's a painful real life moment from the life of CWM:

 

The year's 2001 and I'm 18 dating a 21 year old girl named Jaimee. I'm hopelessy in love with her and was seriously considering asking for her hand in marrige (yeah i'm stupid).

 

One day I come over to Jaimee's apartment and find her sitting on the floor crying. I try to talk to her but she won't stop crying. Finally I calm her down and I ask her what's wrong.

 

SHe looked up in my eyes and told me that she had found out a month ago that she was pregnent.

 

I was shocked. We almost always wore protection. After the shock I was happy and told her so. That's when she started crying again. Finally she told me that earlier that day she had gotten an abortion.

 

She hadn't told me because she was scared. and didn't think she could take care of the child.

 

That's why abortion is a serious matter. and it shouldn't just be about one parent it should be about both.

 

If I had a say i'd be a father now. Instead I'm left wondering what if...

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

I'm in favor of RESPONSIBLE pro-choice.

 

Women shouldn't have to bear children that may cause their death or the death of said child. If the mother is unable to look after the child (as is the father) then adoption should be first considered.

 

It's an awful thing to decide and tears apart relationships. I know from personal experince.

 

Here's a painful real life moment from the life of CWM:

 

The year's 2001 and I'm 18 dating a 21 year old girl named Jaimee. I'm hopelessy in love with her and was seriously considering asking for her hand in marrige (yeah i'm stupid).

 

One day I come over to Jaimee's apartment and find her sitting on the floor crying. I try to talk to her but she won't stop crying. Finally I calm her down and I ask her what's wrong.

 

SHe looked up in my eyes and told me that she had found out a month ago that she was pregnent.

 

I was shocked. We almost always wore protection. After the shock I was happy and told her so. That's when she started crying again. Finally she told me that earlier that day she had gotten an abortion.

 

She hadn't told me because she was scared. and didn't think she could take care of the child.

 

That's why abortion is a serious matter. and it shouldn't just be about one parent it should be about both.

 

If I had a say i'd be a father now. Instead I'm left wondering what if...

[TSA09 0]

I agree with you CWM, that it should be a choice of both parties, however if both of you didn't want a child to begin with you should ALWAYS use a condom. Almost always means there were a few times when you didn't and you paid the price. But she should have approached you and got your thoughts before acting on it. And since you have a path you are following, you'd probably be a good father.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I'm in favor of RESPONSIBLE pro-choice.

 

Women shouldn't have to bear children that may cause their death or the death of said child. If the mother is unable to look after the child (as is the father) then adoption should be first considered.

 

It's an awful thing to decide and tears apart relationships. I know from personal experince.

 

Here's a painful real life moment from the life of CWM:

 

The year's 2001 and I'm 18 dating a 21 year old girl named Jaimee. I'm hopelessy in love with her and was seriously considering asking for her hand in marrige (yeah i'm stupid).

 

One day I come over to Jaimee's apartment and find her sitting on the floor crying. I try to talk to her but she won't stop crying. Finally I calm her down and I ask her what's wrong.

 

SHe looked up in my eyes and told me that she had found out a month ago that she was pregnent.

 

I was shocked. We almost always wore protection. After the shock I was happy and told her so. That's when she started crying again. Finally she told me that earlier that day she had gotten an abortion.

 

She hadn't told me because she was scared. and didn't think she could take care of the child.

 

That's why abortion is a serious matter. and it shouldn't just be about one parent it should be about both.

 

If I had a say i'd be a father now. Instead I'm left wondering what if...

Normally I don't really feel for a person's real life story here on the board, as most of the time it seems to be trivial stuff. But in your case, man, that's a pretty hard-hitting story, and all I wanna know is what happened afterwards, both with her and with your own life knowing that a "potential" son of yours was aborted.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

We stayed together for a little while but it was too much for me. I kept thinking of what I could have had and I started drinking.

 

I broke up with her to protect her from the person I was afraid I'd become.

 

I'm mostly over the pain now and I try to see her side of it. I've heard that shes doing well.

[Ripper 0]

I think the second woman should begin to consider preventional methods of birth control before abortion. Whatever Ripper spouts off to the contrary, common sense is still a good thing.

Lets not act like I ever said that the woman was right. The question was about rather or not she was suppose to be able to have an abortion. I pointed out my adoption scenario for the "You made a mistake deal with it" people out there that say she should have the baby. Of course she should grow the fuck up and use protection, but this is the real world and everyone isn't going to act responsibly.

[Highland 0]

The 11 year old girl should have an abortion. In fact it shouldn't even be a debate; and naturally the father should die, preferably in a most horrible fashion.

 

The 28 year old is a skank, pure and simple. Though I don't believe abortion should be a form of birth-control she probably a)irresponsible b)too stupid to use contraception or c) one of the neo-feminists who believe they should not have to use contraception, since their body is their own to do with as they please whenever they want.

 

(awaits the incoming shelling)

[EricMM 0]

Um basically there's no way to prevent the second woman from having an abortion if we allow the first girl to have one.

 

I believe that the first girl deserves the right to save her own life through an abortion.

 

There is no court or judge or jury or whatever that would be fit to judge where the line would have to be drawn. So we as Americans don't put a line down. It's the only way.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

I think the 11-year old should seriously consider a life-style change in the future. She obviously must have been wearing too high or tight a skirt; she was asking for it. Also, it's not solely one partner's responsibility; much like the second woman, she should have insisted her father use a condom before raping her. Own up to your responsibilities, whore!

[Guest stardust]

c) one of the neo-feminists who believe they should not have to use contraception, since their body is their own to do with as they please whenever they want.

 

(awaits the incoming shelling)

 

I'm not sure what kind of feminists you're coming in contact with or referring to, because most feminists I know are very pro-birth control. Hell, I think in almost every single women's studies course I've taken, we've had long, drawn-out discussions about birth control and how sex ed needs to be taught in schools and how teens need to be educated about birth control and places like Planned Parenthood where you can go get free birth control (OMG free condoms~!). *shrug* But those are just the feminists I know. I'm sure there is some radical feminist subgroup out there that believes they shouldn't have to use contraception.