Espn's sportsguy drops comments on hogan/rock

[Guest Mik at Cornell]

I don't know how many people read ESPN.com's Sportsguy, who I happen to think is the best columnist on ESPN for the simple reason that he relates to me as a 20 year old male. He always seems to write about things me and my friends talk about, like the professional Madden tournament and stuff. Well, the sports guy loves wrestling, and here is what he had to say about WM 18. I find it interesting.

 

Did you get a chance to watch Wrestlemania 18? My friends and I almost fell out of our seats when Hogan started "Hulking up." -- Michael Conti, College Park, Md.

 

SG: For all the nonwrestling fans reading this, feel free to skip to the next question. No hard feelings.

 

Anyway, I thought the Hogan-Rock match was just tremendous, one of the five great wrestling matches of the past 20 years. There was a predictable backlash among the wrestling smarts after that match (the "Yeah, it was good, but it wasn't that good" routine), led by wrestling guru Dave Meltzer (who awarded the match just 3½ stars out of five). Sure, the moves weren't that polished and the structure of the match was a little predictable, but the naysayers were missing the point. Watching it live, that match was incredibly dramatic, for a number of reasons:

 

 

The crowd was beside itself from the moment both guys came out. I can't even remember the last time I heard a wrestling crowd make noise like that -- you might have to harken back to Mick Foley winning the WWF title a few years ago. I always thought the greatest crowd I ever heard was when Sergeant Slaughter beat the Iron Sheik in a Boot Camp match at MSG about 20 years ago, but the SkyDome crowd last month came pretty darned close.

 

 

Watching two generations of wrestling collide, then watching the crowd turn on Rock and cheer Hogan ... you couldn't believe it was happening when you were watching it live. Nobody thought the Hulkster would win a Charisma Litmus Test with the most popular wrestler in the world.

 

 

When Hogan started "Hulking up" near the end of the match ... I mean, that was TREEEEE-mendous. The nostalgia factor was off the charts. I felt like I was 13 again.

 

 

You honestly didn't know how the match would end. I had no clue. That never happens with wrestling anymore. 99.9999999% of the time, I know exactly what's going to happen. And when the match finally ended, I immediately called my buddy Gus just to ask him, "Did you see that?" So anything that passes the "I Have To Call One Of My Buddies Immediately To Discuss What Just Happened" Test has to warrant five stars, in my book.

 

Of course, the WWF ended up botching the post-match angle. Here's what they should have done: Made Hogan depressed that he lost to The Rock, like he was doubting himself and wondering if he had anything left ... kept him from wrestling for a few weeks, like he was going through one of those "Rocky after Mickey died" funks ... then slowly built his comeback with a nostalgic, Lemieux-, MJ-esque, "Former superduperstar trying to win the title one last time" routine. And they could have had him wrestling for the title like 10 times; each time, something could have happened that screwed up a victory for him (somebody running in, the ref missing a three-count, the ref getting knocked out, etc.). I'm telling you, this would have worked. By the time he finally won the title, the fans would have gone bonkers.

 

Instead, in classic WWF fashion, they overexposed him early, quickly made him a Good Guy and put him in the ring as much as possible. It doesn't get any dumber than the WWF. Back in the old days, they would milk these things for the optimum dramatic value -- now they rush through plots and angles in a matter of hours. Really pisses me off.

 

(End of wrestling talk -- you can now rejoin the program.)

[Guest starvenger]

Sportsguy fucking rules.

[Guest]

I dont think a match should get ***** based purely on the fact that it makes you feel 13 again. It was a boring match, It was painfull to watch to be honest I didnt care how it ended. I really wanted it to end, cause I thought Triple H/Jericho might steal the show afterwards(wrong about  that).

[Guest Human Fly]

Sportsguy was a little harsh when it came to Jules Asner v. Brooke Burke though. I don't think that it's that big of a difference. Jules is still hot as hell.

[Guest RetroRob215]

lunchboxanthem, I think the amount you enjoyed that match would depend on whether or not you like(d) Hulk Hogan or the Rock.  Personally I thought it was one of the greatest matches in wrestling history.  It was the match no one thought they would ever see.  Sure the workrate sucked, but this isn't Japan, so who gives a shit.  The emotion, intesity, and crowd reaction in that match was what made it a classic.  Believe it or not, that is the same reason Andre-Hogan is a classic at WM III.  Sure it sucked, but smarks around the world love it nonetheless.  You shouldn't have gone into that match expecting good wrestling, you should have expected a match with a lot of intensity and suspense.  The match definetly surpassed my expectations.

[Guest Mik at Cornell]

Sportsguy was a little harsh when it came to Jules Asner v. Brooke Burke though. I don't think that it's that big of a difference. Jules is still hot as hell.

I dunno, I kinda agree with the SportsGuy. While Jules Asner is hot, Brooke Burke is out of this world. League of her own material. And to think, she just had a child and she is still that hot.

[Guest Mik at Cornell]

lunchboxanthem, I think the amount you enjoyed that match would depend on whether or not you like(d) Hulk Hogan or the Rock.  Personally I thought it was one of the greatest matches in wrestling history.  It was the match no one thought they would ever see.  Sure the workrate sucked, but this isn't Japan, so who gives a shit.  The emotion, intesity, and crowd reaction in that match was what made it a classic.  Believe it or not, that is the same reason Andre-Hogan is a classic at WM III.  Sure it sucked, but smarks around the world love it nonetheless.  You shouldn't have gone into that match expecting good wrestling, you should have expected a match with a lot of intensity and suspense.  The match definetly surpassed my expectations.

Seriously, and I think it also depends on your age bracket. Damn, I love the Rock, but I grew up a Hulkamaniac. I was in my 6s, 7s, 8s, and 9s when Hulkamania was running wild and to be there live for that match was something I will never forget.

 

When Hogan started hulking up I was literally jumping up and down. My buddy and I were hugging total strangers behind us in the skydome. It was that kind of a moment. Definitely worth the 9 hour trip to Toronto.

[Guest]

lunchboxanthem, I think the amount you enjoyed that match would depend on whether or not you like(d) Hulk Hogan or the Rock.  Personally I thought it was one of the greatest matches in wrestling history.  It was the match no one thought they would ever see.  Sure the workrate sucked, but this isn't Japan, so who gives a shit.  The emotion, intesity, and crowd reaction in that match was what made it a classic.  Believe it or not, that is the same reason Andre-Hogan is a classic at WM III.  Sure it sucked, but smarks around the world love it nonetheless.  You shouldn't have gone into that match expecting good wrestling, you should have expected a match with a lot of intensity and suspense.  The match definetly surpassed my expectations.

too me intesity implies a number of things but atop that list would be good wrestling. I can see that if I had grown up a Hulkamanaic perhaps it would have been an orgasm of nostalgia but I've only been watching since about 92/93. None the less I cant beleive that anyone could rate this match so highly, it was like watching an extended Nitro main event with tremendous crowd heat. It is a joke that someone could list this as one of the top matches of all time. Maybe, my opinion would be totally different if I were of the first generation of WWF fans. maybe.

[Guest Special K]

I like SG, and I can definitely definitely see how people could really like the WM8 match. However giving it 5* is a huge stretch, and calling it one of the top 5 matches in the last 20 years is ludicrous. I mean, Andre/Hogan was more 'epic' , and so was Hogan/Warrior WMIV (plus it was a better match IMO). And I hate to be a puro whore, but I can think of a lot of matches in AJPW that had incredible wrestling AND crowd heat. The prime example being Misawa/Kawada '94 (my favorite match, along w/ Bret-Owen WMX). Speaking of which, the Owen Hart memorial match was a grat match that had incredible heat from a small WCW crowd, so I think he's way out of line on the best 5 statement.

[Guest Shaved Bear]

well scott only gave it ** out of *****, so meltz wasnt that harsh

[Guest Mik at Cornell]

Scott only gave it ** because no Canadians were in the match. But somehow TLC was *****? Good match, yes, Match of the Year? Nope.

[Guest McLeary]

...in classic WWF fashion, they overexposed him early, quickly made him a Good Guy and put him in the ring as much as possible. It doesn't get any dumber than the WWF. Back in the old days, they would milk these things for the optimum dramatic value -- now they rush through plots and angles in a matter of hours.

says it all right there.

[Guest Tomato Can]

C'mon, from an objective standpoint, TLC was way better than Rock/Hogan.

[Guest Brian]

Keller gave it **** for everything, but as a match, * was what he said.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

C'mon, from an objective standpoint, TLC was way better than Rock/Hogan.

Of course, but was it FIVE STAR? As in, was it as close to perfection as a wrestling match could ever come? Was there no way it could improve? Were the moon all aligned and every element from the storytelling to the grappling the "realism" of the action to the crowd element all working at the highest peak? Not in my opinion.

 

I'm willing to be that two completely unknown jobbers could put on a match with technical grappling and insane bumps and SK would give it high ratings. An okay match with a several month long dramatic story could get, at most, three and a half stars. Perhaps it's because he's been watching wrestling so long that he can only see the business & workrate side, or maybe he knows more than us just how corny it is, but it seems he can't seem to put any sort of emotional value on a storyline. A story with five months of backstory and some moderate wrestling could get shit on while a feud created just two minutes ago could get a positive response if it had enough suplexes and so on.

 

And, like it or not, it is a very plausible theory that he gives more benefit to Canadians. I've found that Canadians, as a whole, do sort of exhibit that kind of silent patriotism. Oh well, don't give him hell for it, he's only human.

[Guest Y2DAYDAY]

Figure Four gave it 4 stars as well, just for the spectacle of the whole thing.

[Guest Cataclysm911]

I don't care what anyone says, Jules Asner is a helluva lot hotter than Brooke Burke. I can't stand women that have beauty marks (moles) on their face. Not to mention Brooke is married to a man that is like 147 years old. Breast size doesn't matter at all either.

 

Jules > Brooke

 

As for Hogan/Rock. I watched it with friends who enjoyed wrestling, not friends who critique every move/match/promo like the posters here on thesmarks board, so hell yes I enjoyed. I don't really believe in rating matches, if it entertains me then it's a good match. Hogan/Rock sure as fuck entertained me.

[Guest Human Fly]

Also, if Brooke just had a kid that's used goods where I come from. Hopefully the mother of my children looks that good though. I won't hold my breath.

 

Hogan - Rock great heat, poor wrestling. If you were giving it a rating on entertainment alone it would get a great rating. If you were grading it on the actual wrestling it would get a poor rating.

[Guest]

Sportsguy said they overexposed Hogan but he hasn't wrestled one match since WM so I don't know what he's talking about.

 

Sportsguy was a little harsh when it came to Jules Asner v. Brooke Burke though. I don't think that it's that big of a difference. Jules is still hot as hell.

What was this about? I only wish it was Jules versus Brooke in a nude oil NHB boob biting brawl.

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

And they could have had him wrestling for the title like 10 times

I can't think of anything worse.

[Guest]

10 times is alittle much. The fans will get so bored if it takes him that long to win a title. Even Crash Holly would wiun the title if he got ten shots at it.