The hardcore division

[Guest chirs3]

Just curious to hear your thoughts on it.

 

A few ideas:

 

1) For God's sake, eliminate the 24/7 rule.

2) Have less "Shopping Cart of Doom" matches. Start using moves that make people cringe (Vandaminator, anyone?)

3) Start moving away from ringside. Really, all Hardcore matches now end in the ring. Defeats the purpose.

 

I think the Division is worth saving, but I don't really know who could do it at this point (I'm not familiar with anyone not in the WWF at the moment).

 

How'sabout you?

[Guest Shaved Bear]

well the 24/7 is rediculous, because there are so many championships that are short lived, i mean crash won the title how many times...

they probably wont save it because being in the HC division seems to be the career kiss of death

[Guest chirs3]

Crash's number of reigns is in the double-digits, I think. I want to say 12...

[Guest Lil Naitch]

I wouldn't say that the hardcore division is the career kis of death. RVD is now IC champ. Steve Blackman actually GOT OVER. Crash was on Raw, and the Mean Street Posse actually won a title...well, the last two aren't very good, but still I think if you get rid of the 24/7 rule, it would be a viable division once more.

[Guest Anglesault]

Crash had 15

[Guest Anglesault]

HA!

 

[Guest FakeRazor]

The hardcore division is a joke.  I love how they are trying to get it treated as a more serious division, yet they still have Al Snow using a bowling ball, and Buh Buh Ray Dudley friggin juggles oranges.

 

There's hope though, but they need to get some decent wrestlers in there too.  No more cartoony bullshit.  No hitting people with bags of popcorn or senselessly beating people with chairs.  They need people that can wrestle hardcore matches like RVD, he incorporates weapons with moves, he doesn't just mindlessly bash people with trash cans and crap.  That's really the only kind of Hardcore matches I like.

[Guest Anglesault]

Maybe you people missed this the first time

 

 

 

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

The best champ thus far has been Rhyno.  He was the most consistantly entertaining.

 

Yes, they can save the division.  Anything can be built back up.  The question is should they?

 

Three weeks ago, I would have rejected the idea, but with the split, it opens up new oppurtunities.  RAW should be an alternative to Smackdown, and as such should push the Hardcore division.  Actually, the Hardcore Title is no longer the least important in the WWF.  The European Title no longer has any direction, and is stuck behind the IC Title on RAW.  They need to get rid of it, and have Smackdown form a new title (US?) to counter the IC Title.

[Guest]

I think it can be saved. While I like the cartoony aspects, I can understand that they make it a joke. Things like the 24/7 rule were funny the first time around, but the idea is burning out. I think a few good old fashioned brawls (booked by Heyman, perhaps?) and the return of Rhyno will help send the division in a new direction. Tossing people like Tajiri in there, who can get over on work rate and work with the style, would also help.

[Guest Insanityman]

Getting rid of the Shopping Cart Plague would help... ECW like matches, the German Suplexes through half-set tables... 24/7 rule has to been demolished. Probably more out of the ring. It can be saved, I hope.

[Guest]

I totally think it could be salvaged and would definitely be worth while.

 

The first thing that has to go are the ridiculous weapons. Anything involving food or silly props would be out.

 

I actually like the twenty four seven rule. I just do not think that it is being utilized properly. Stop having matches in the building. Show a wrestler being attacked at home and make it a real wrestling match. Have one being attacked while having dinner in a restaurant. These would be much cooler then two dopes going at it at ring side. You can explain the camera being there by saying that the challenger brought it along to have proof of his victory.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

I actually like the twenty four seven rule. I just do not think that it is being utilized properly. Stop having matches in the building. Show a wrestler being attacked at home and make it a real wrestling match. Have one being attacked while having dinner in a restaurant. These would be much cooler then two dopes going at it at ring side. You can explain the camera being there by saying that the challenger brought it along to have proof of his victory.

 

It is still played.  It happened all the time when Crash was champ.  He would be attacked in places like his hotel room.  The 24/7 was fun, but it is just too old now.

[Guest El Satanico]

They need a real belt as well get rid of that dumpster find that is currently called the hardcore belt.

 

Also get rid of the "hey look we are hardcore" attitude of the matches. Just have all the matches be no dq where anything can happen and so that every match doesnt have to be nothing but weapons. This way we'd still get actual matches that don't need to use weapons but can use them. This would make it more "ECW style" when they had normal matches but also used chairs or tables in the flow of the match. Sure they had the "New Jack style" of hardcore which is what WWF uses but they didn't do those that often.

 

I think a no dq division would go over better then a "hardcore" division.

[Guest Risk]

They need a new belt called the 'Extreme' title.  No crappy 24/7 thing, either.

[Guest Anglesault]

Am I the only one whos sees this?

 

[Guest Mik at Cornell]

As an aside, one time in 1998 at a Raw in Philadelphia, we hung around outside before the show, and Steve Blackman's girlfriend was one of the hottest women I have ever seen in my life.

 

And yes, Anglesault, that is pretty funny.

[Guest Anglesault]

Steve Blackman's girlfriend was one of the hottest women I have ever seen in my life.

 

Go figure. Blonde?

 

 

And yes, Anglesault, that is pretty funny.

 

Thank You!

[Guest razazteca]

The Shopping Cart of Doom is the kiss of death unless your name is New Jack, it has done nothing for Raven.

 

The Hardcore division needs direction it either should be a comedy belt using the 24/7 rule with Crash and Spike as champs or go the ECW way of thinking of brawling with tables, chairs, ladders with either Mike Awesome or Tommy Dreamer as champ.

 

The title can be saved but it like everything in the WWF needs direction.

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

I think the division should be closed for a while. Bubbah isn't going to do anything worthwhile with the title. It seems to have become just like the European title - a token belt for midcarders.

[Guest]

If they added some other ideas to the title like kill the 24/7 rule, some Gimmick Matches can be considered hardcore (Cage Match, Barbed Wire Ropes, etc) etc.

[Guest]

If they added some other ideas to the title like kill the 24/7 rule, some Gimmick Matches can be considered hardcore (Cage Match, Barbed Wire Ropes, etc) etc.

Yeah, that'd be nice, but unfortunately the WWF would never allow a legit barbed wire match. It'd be too much for mainstream fans to handle. I liked the idea of whoever said to make it a no DQ division where the weapons CAN be used, but aren't the main aspect. They could use guys like Rhino, Tommy Dreamer, Raven, Mike Awesome, and even Spike Dudley. Sure, he's been pushed like a joke in the WWF, but Spike was very entertaining in ECW without being the joke he is now. He can take one hell of a bump and I think he'd be a good addition.

[Guest BobbyBacklund]

Best biography I could find on the loser, from his official site:

 

 

 

Steve Blackman grew up being a strong kid. He even won many weight-lifting awards he could put under his belt, his third degree black belt in Shotokan. Blackman was pretty much made for the sport of professional wrestling. Unfortunately he contracted malaria when wrestling in South Africa in 1989. He barely recovered.

 

To this day Steve's biggest accomplishment hasn't been some gold belt around his waist, it was returning to the ring at the 1997 Survivor Series Pay-Per-View. His appearance there was on behalf of Team USA who was short one member. Blackman was The Patriot's replacement.

 

After the event he enjoyed a four month long win streak in the ranks of the World Wrestling Federation. Jeff Jarrett soon got in his way though. Blackman would have his revenge. At the 1998 Unforgiven Pay-Per-View as Jarrett sang with country music star, Sawyer Brown, Blackman unleashed an attack on Jarrett.

 

The Lethal Weapon then went on to the WWF Brawl For All Tournament. In the first round he defeated Marc Mero, but was unable to continue due to an injury sustained while training.

 

In the Summer of 1999 Blackman found himself in a feud with Ken Shamrock. The two were involved in several matches including a "Lions Den Weapons Match" and an unsanctioned "Iron Circle Match." Blackman came out on the losing end, but it was his chance to show the world he could compete with the best.

 

Even after his memorable feud with Shamrock, Blackman just couldn't win it over with the World Wrestling Federation officials. He received very few title shots. Blackman found himself forming tag teams in hope to find success in the division. Unsuccessful teams with Kurt Angle and Al Snow only led him to more troubles.

 

Blackman had just about had it until the World Wrestling Federation made a new rule in the hardcore division. The rule was that the WWF Hardcore Championship would be on defense 24/7.

 

Blackman took advantage of this new rule on June 29, 2000. That was the night when Crash Holly started to retreat from his match against Al Snow. He didn't get very far though because Blackman attacked him with nunchucks. After the assault on Holly, Blackman got the easy 1-2-3 pin, and the WWF Hardcore Championship.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

The Shopping Cart of Doom is the kiss of death unless your name is New Jack, it has done nothing for Raven.

 

The Hardcore division needs direction it either should be a comedy belt using the 24/7 rule with Crash and Spike as champs or go the ECW way of thinking of brawling with tables, chairs, ladders with either Mike Awesome or Tommy Dreamer as champ.

Am I the only person who likes the Shopping Cart of Doom? I think it's kinda cute... especially the little Frankenstein guy and the potted plant.

 

Anyway, there's no denying that the Hardcore Title is a garbage belt, and a comedy belt.  Is there really anything wrong with that? The stuff like Bubba juggling the oranges (which I thought was funny) can provide a little light-hearted entertainment for the crowd.  The comedy matches from the Hardcore belt are the only way some of these guys can express their comedic sides.  Besides, anything that helps guys as great as Crash Holly (PACIFICA PRIDE~!) get over is cool with me.  At least the WWF knows its not a serious belt.  I'd consider the European belt to be in much worse shape, since it's supposedly a serious belt but it never gets defended except to advance a feud (usually a feud that's NOT ABOUT THE BELT ITSELF! ack!), and hasn't had any self-centered heel holders that are seriously in love with it to make it seem important like other belts.

[Guest areacode212]

Hm, that's a good point. As much as I'd like to see the hardcore division drop the 24/7 rule and the shopping cart of doom/"throw a bunch of junk in the ring", and basically feature no-DQ matches where weapons are occasionally used (ECW style), it's the over-the-top comedy stuff that hooks in casual & mainstream fans. As it is now, the hardcore matches are a bathroom break for me.

[Guest Brian]

If weapons became the exception and the 24/7 rule was gone, that'd be a start. The other thing is that when you have weapons that are expected to be involved, have Raven layout the damn matches.

[Guest Your Olympic Hero]

The Hardcore belt is too far gone to be saved.  I say they start over without the 24/7 rule and call it something like the Extreme Championship like someone mentioned further up in this thread.  Then they could use some of the old ECW guys in the division, or midcarders that have nothing better to do. No more 30 second title reigns either.

[Guest]

First of all, The Shopping cart of death makes Raven look like the Homeless Baglady Hardcore Champion. Kinda funny.

 

Another thing with the 24/7 rule it allows Wrestlers who don't often get air time to come on for a single segment to do one or two things.  Essa Rios, K Kwik, Headbangers etc.

 

It was suppose to be a Slighted belt for Mic Foley  a Insult of his Hardcore past, and it turned into a actual belt people fight for.

 

If they get out of the comedy crap like Patterson and Brisco going drag to win the belt, Buh Buh Juggling and getting serious with more people going for the belt, The hardcore title and division would be cool again.

 

Tommy Dreamer, Buh Buh, Raven, Credible, add some more names on Raw's list.  Another reason why the Roster split is not as good as once thought. The title only on one show.  Crap crap crap

[Guest chirs3]

I'll agree, I thought the juggling oranges was funny... but nothing else was. They took up 6 minutes which could have gone somewhere else, and the only good thing about it was Buhbuh juggling oranges.

 

I would love it as a comedy belt if they made it funny, but that rarely happens.

[Guest]

WWF will never take the Hardcore title matches serious. The Writers like to amuse themselves by making it cartoonish. It might be fun to watch Buh Buh Ray with the title but it won't last for long. The Buh Buh Drop is a finish now? Give me a break!