It would have been perfect

[Guest Loss]

After Austin put HHH in the main event against Goldberg at Survivor Series, imagine this promo:

 

"Steve, Steve, Steve. This is where I draw the line. See, we're here, guys like me, and we're not going anywhere, and we're right there, Steve. Right on the cusp. And we can't get through because of guys like you. And you know why. Because if the Jerichos and the Christians and the Bookers and the RVDs become the big stars, you no longer mean anything. You become a has been. You become a part of history and it becomes our turn to write it.

 

Our version of history is a version without you. And if you can't handle that, then you're more paranoid than anyone is willing to admit.

 

I understand you, Steve. You don't like HHH at all. But you'd rather have him as your champion than me, wouldn't you? HHH is part of your era. When you wrestled HHH, you were the man, you were unbeatable, you were headlining Wrestlemanias and selling out shows. When you started wrestling me, things started getting a little darker. Every time you had a match with me, you became a little less important than you were the day before. And every time I won a title, your last title became a more distant memory.

 

It's this that bugs you about me, and it's this that also bugs me about you.

 

I may not have always beaten you, but what I did to you was more important than winning a wrestling match. I took your soul, Steve. I made you passe. I made you a former great. You are a former great, Steve. Face the facts. You're 39 years old. Your body is falling apart. You're knees, your neck, it's all shot.

 

Do you realize, out of Benoit, out of Angle, out of HHH, out of Rock, hell, include yourself and even the Undertaker, I'm the only guy who hasn't been out with an injury. I'm the only guy who hasn't left to make a movie. I've been right here doing what I do best, and that's making this company a better place. I can still do that Steve. You stopped doing that a long time ago.

 

And because the present and the future are mine and you are left with only the past, you hate me. I'd hate me too. But I actually don't hate you. I pity you. I feel sorry for you. I sympathize with you. You have nothing left. One day, I'll be able to relate. And when that time comes, you'll never see me again. It's funny how you once said the same thing.

 

When Stone Cold looks at Y2J, does he see an enemy? Or does he see himself? Or perhaps, he sees both, and changes the subject for fear of the truth striking him down and making him a part of the past, which is his greatest fear. Think about it, Austin. Really think about it."

 

Jericho throws the mic down and walks out. Austin doesn't say anything, but simply walks away. JR is in silent disbelief at what we've just seen.

[The Tino Standard 0]

That's a wonderful promo.

 

Too bad it makes the wrong guy look good in WWE land.

[The Man in Blak 0]

Austin doesn't say anything, but simply walks away.

 

Of course, Austin's character would have probably given Jericho a stunner about halfway through that tirade. He hasn't put up with shit before - why do it now? </WWE logic>

 

Awesome promo, though. Too bad it would never happen in a million years.

[the pinjockey 0]

Gee, thanks, as if I wasn't depressed enough about how shitty the WWE's writers are.

 

That would certainly be a money promo.

[Guest Mindless_Aggression]

Austin wouldn't just walk away, he'd walk outside, Stun Lillian, force himself upon her, say she deserved it, come back in, bitch slap Jericho, drop Steiner with one shot, show the Legion Of Doom how tag team wrestling is done, out suplex Taz, out corkscrew moonsault Essa Rios then pin the WWE ring itself for the 1 2 3.

 

Stone Cold~!

[EdwardKnoxII 0]

And during all of this JR would be yelling "STONE COLD STONE COLD" and then have an orgasm.

[Guest Sakura]

"Shoot" angles suck. No thanks.

[cbacon 0]

Nah, shoot angles are fun and unpredictable. Bring on the shoot I say.

[The Man in Blak 0]

The question is this:

 

Is it really a shoot angle, since all of the stuff that Jericho would reference in the promo is essentially true within the storyline?

[Highland 0]

"Steve, Steve, Steve. This is where I draw the line. See, we're here, guys like me, and--" a quick stunner, followed by a verbal assault on Jericho and the double finger would put an end to that promo, I'm afraid.

[Highland 0]

But I'd mark the fuck out if Jericho really DID cut a promo like that.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

It wouldn't be a shoot angle. Just because he's challenging something that rings truth outside of the storyline doesn't make it a shoot. Jericho has always stated what a lot of people have been thinking, but never willing to say, so this wouldn't be outside of character. This would be a lot like his promo before Wrestlemania with Shawn Michaels. That promo made me excited about their match, which up to that point, had me feeling pretty apathetic. Good stuff, Loss, and I could see Jericho saying that, but because of the politics, he'd never get to say half of that stuff because it rings a little too much truth.

[Guest Sakura]

Not really. Austin made Goldberg vs. Crips II because it's a rematch from the last ppv and they're still feuding. How is that holding down Jericho or RVD in the storyline? RVD and Booker are aligned with Austin too. Maybe some smarts here see the Austin as GM thing as him holding down these guys, but in the actual story he is a good guy trying to counter the evil antics of Bischoff.

[HellSpawn 0]

It was good.

 

But are you sure the crowd will care about all that?

 

Most people,like someone made fun here, will be waiting for the stunner, the beer and "whats next?".

 

 

And the funniest thing, JR will be tellin the fans at home how ungrateful that *Benoit/Edge guy is, and how Austin is god.

 

Then Austin will stunner Jericho, without provocation and the fans will cheer.

 

And dont make me tell you how WORST the spanish announcers are. Imagine Two JRs.

 

 

*Remember how JR several times called Jericho -> Benoit and viceversa

[Bruiser Chong 0]

True that the underused faces like RVD wouldn't have much of a case (against Austin, anyway) in storyline terms, but Jericho's been used in pretty poor ways for a long while now, and he could use Austin as a reason for that.

[HellSpawn 0]

And well, Jericho already said TWO promos like this one, semi-shoot.

 

With Michaels and that awesome with the Rock pre Rumble 2K2. An dNothing happened.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

HellSpawn, if WWE didn't train fans to not care about such things, there wouldn't be that potential problem. If the announcers didn't tell the fans who to cheer for and who not to cheer for, there'd be a definite difference. WWE can't control how the fans act or who and what they like, but week after week, they are still training them to accept a certain formula. Change that up a bit and the scenario that was mentioned with the stunner and JR praising anything Austin does probably wouldn't seem so definite.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

And well, Jericho already said TWO promos like this one, semi-shoot.

 

With Michaels and that awesome with the Rock pre Rumble 2K2. An dNothing happened.

What do you mean nothing happened? It added a lot more intensity to the feud and the upcoming match at the Royal Rumble. What was supposed to come of it did take place. It added another layer to the Rock/Jericho saga. What did you want to happen?

[Guest Sakura]

True that the underused faces like RVD wouldn't have much of a case (against Austin, anyway) in storyline terms, but Jericho's been used in pretty poor ways for a long while now, and he could use Austin as a reason for that.

In a storyline sense, how would Austin be blamed for the way Jericho is "used"? Austin is GM, he makes matches. He isn't god, he can't magically force Jericho to lose. Jericho is constantly in main event matches...he just loses all the time. In the storyline that's because he just isn't on the level of like Goldberg and Crips. Same with guys like Booker and RVD. They are given title shots and big matches but they just lose. It's not like there is this storyline where Austin is forcing them to be on Heat. Of course we know the reason they lose in real life, but in the storyline RVD loses to Kane and Booker loses to HHH because they just aren't as good. That's not Austin's fault.

 

 

You can't have someone be ranting about how they are "used" and "held down" without it being a worked shoot. Unless it's something like how in 1998/1999 Vince was trying to take the title away from Austin in the storyline.

 

 

If anything Austin is helping out guys like RVD by stopping Bischoff's BS antics.

[HellSpawn 0]

I mean, at a long term.

Yes it add something to Rock's match.. and? then he move to Austin and then HHH, after WM he didnt had a match. So... it was just another good promo.

 

Michaels... he still lost the match, and the feud's payback was months later without heat, just a... the payback is in two weeks at LA... do you remember that prematch promo in Canada? where they trade face-Heel roles and left with the crowd dead? in another *shoot* promo.

 

 

I dont remember who said it, but I think the high % of the WWE market, dont care about shoot angles. The only ones who care about shoots are the IWC, or more clearly... Smart marks who are so inside the wrestling business.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

The way he's treated on the show, you could've fooled me that he isn't god. Ever notice that since Austin became GM, there hasn't been one incident where someone laid him out, yet he's stunned at least half of the RAW roster and made them look like nothing?

 

I don't expect a nobody to come and lay him out, but what's it say when a retired near-cripple (I don't care if he's a badass rattlesnake or not, he's still messed up in the physical sense) is able to plow through most of your young talent? Let's see, off the top of my head, Austin's made Jericho, Test, Steiner, Christian, and Kane seem like nothing, basically destroying them, while they got little to no offense or future revenge in.

 

And there, right there, could be Jericho's angle. It's not so much in the matches Austin makes but rather, how he treats the talent and is able to still look better than everyone who crosses paths with him, despite his career being over. The fans know why he's retired, would it hurt his image that much if one of these guys were to come back and extract revenge on Austin later on? Certainly seems that way.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

I mean, at a long term.

Yes it add something to Rock's match.. and? then he move to Austin and then HHH, after WM he didnt had a match. So... it was just another good promo.

Yeah it was a good promo, but it added fuel to the feud that had been losing steam since its inception months earlier. It was definitely still one of the more interesting feuds going at the time, but when that promo rolled around, it had begun to lose some of its luster, and Jericho's promo rejuvinated it. They finished off the feud soon after that and it seemed it was the right move. After all, no reason to have it overstay its welcome, right? When a program's run its course, it's time to close up shop and move on and that's what happened. Jericho wasn't properly used after that feud, but that's not because of the promo's effectiveness, it was just inept booking.

 

Michaels... he still lost the match, and the feud's payback was months later without heat, just a... the payback is in two weeks at LA... do you remember that prematch promo in Canada? where they trade face-Heel roles and left with the crowd dead? in another *shoot* promo.

 

The promo (I thought) perfectly set up a "passing of the torch" of sorts at WM with Shawn finally putting Jericho over. The match was probably the best on the card that night and quite frankly, they had the perfect scenario for Shawn to job cleanly, as he struggled to get out of the Walls of Jericho for several minutes. Being unable to escape and going down in a blaze of glory ala Austin at WM 13, would've been perfect. Unfortunately, that's not what happened and Jericho ended up being the one to job cleanly. I think that killed some interest in the feud, because after all, why have a rematch? The face already came out on top, cleanly, no less. No point in a rematch. If Shawn needed the win that badly, he should've let Jericho go over at Mania and gotten his win back in the match on RAW from LA, which would've been counterproductive, but at least would've ensured that the match had some heat.

 

I dont remember who said it, but I think the high % of the WWE market, dont care about shoot angles. The only ones who care about shoots are the IWC, or more clearly... Smart marks who are so inside the wrestling business.

 

That's because shoot angles were done to death in 2000 and the majority of the wrestling public gave up on having an interest in them. I don't see how it applies to the topic, though, as none of these three Jericho promos (the two that happened and the fantasy one Loss started this thread out with) were shoot angles. All three used points and things that pertained to the according storylines. I didn't see any shoot angles, just a pair of intense and effective promos.

[Guest Sakura]

The way he's treated on the show, you could've fooled me that he isn't god. Ever notice that since Austin became GM, there hasn't been one incident where someone laid him out, yet he's stunned at least half of the RAW roster and made them look like nothing?

How is Austin not letting them attack him in the storyline? In the storyline the reason guys like Jericho and Christian don't or can't stand up to Austin is because they just aren't as good as him.

 

Yeah, we know about the backstage BS that goes on and we know that Austin is done and should put Jericho over. That's not the storyline though. That's my point. Jericho coming out and complaining about this would be a shoot. It makes no sense for him to come out and complain about this in the storyline.

 

 

If Jericho is to go over Austin he should do it in a wrestling angle, not a "shoot".

[Bruiser Chong 0]

I'm not saying that Austin should be "letting them" attack him in storylines. It's just that Jericho could easily accuse Austin of refusing to let go of past glory by constantly provoking the talent. Yeah, some new elements would need to be added to completely make sense, but the groundwork is right there. Austin being done isn't just backstage BS. It's common knowledge among even the marks and they should quit insulting everyone's intelligence by having a near-cripple constantly kicking the asses of the young and/or established talent on RAW. How are we supposed to take someone like Christian seriously if he can't even take on or get revenge on a guy whose spine is more twisted than Vince McMahon's soul? I'm not saying Austin should start lying down for everyone, but him showing a little more vulnerability wouldn't be that far-fetched, his bad health considered. Bottom line, Jericho can use those attacks as the base of his points in his accusations that Austin won't let go of former glories.

[Guest Sakura]

He should show vulnerability but not from a worked shoot where Jericho basically admits that him and guys like RVD are second rate and complaining about it.

 

I hate these stories with old guard vs. new guard where they beat it over your head and make it so obvious they're trying to introduce a new generation. There is no need to do that. They need to slowly just integrate people like Jericho and RVD onto Austin's level, not tell us how they're not but trying to be.

[Guest Loss]

This is not a shoot angle. A shoot angle would be Jericho admitting that wrestling is fake, comparing about his push and using insider terms. This has Jericho claiming that Austin won't put him in title matches because he represents the future and as much as he hates HHH, he'd rather him be the champion if worse came to worst because it still means Austin is relevant.

 

Russo messed everyone up on what does and doesn't work. A feud with a vein of reality to it, as long as everything is fully explained, will almost always work as long as you don't do such a storyline every single week.

 

This doesn't cater to the Internet at all. This merely takes a feud that is actually picking up a little steam and expands in that direction, and lays the groundwork for a double turn at some point in the future, which whether it does happen or not is what needs to happen.

 

I don't know that creative truly realizes what they have here.

[Guest Loss]

This promo could also be used to create dissension in Team Austin, as Jericho is trying to make Austin's team question why they are fighting on his side. The point is that since Austin became a GM, neither of them have had a PPV title match. Jericho has planted a seed and messed with their minds, so in that event it worked.

 

I have Austin walking away in the same way he did when Vince told him we needed "the old Stone Cold" during the inVasion. It's not some new concept, it just requires telling the story they're already telling anyway, they just don't know it.

[Damaramu 0]

Actually...he has been laid out once....and that was by Kane.

[Guest Just J]

That promo sucked. Jericho is where he is because of people like SCSA. He helped to make the business what it is today and Jericho will never be a major player as long as he wears those stupid ass platform shoes.

 

Short bastard.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

Actually...he has been laid out once....and that was by Kane.

Are you referring to the episode of RAW where Austin beat the hell out of Kane for a good long while before Kane mounted anything resembling offense? That was the week after Kane's big monster heel push began, and I think that took a lot of steam out of it, although that's nothing compared to the Shane feud, which has killed any momentum he had for this new monster heel.