Guest Doyo Report post Posted November 11, 2003 Everyone draws money. The 80s WWF didn't consist of Hulk Hogan by himself going arena to arena to do autograph signings. Everyone right down to the people who clean the Titan Towers' toilets have helped in some small way for the wrestling industry to generate dollars. It is kind of silly to only give credit to 5 or so guys for making all the money when they couldn't have done it without people such as the referees and Barry Horowitz. Of course stars are the most important thing, but you have to look at the big picture overall. The Red Sox may have taken in a lot more money and were seen by a lot more people in 1992 when Tom Brunansky was their best hitter, than in the past, but nobody is going to say he was a bigger draw than Ted Williams. You have to plug people into certain situations and imagine how they would do. HHH would have been nowhere near the success as Flair was at going from territory to territory main eventing as NWA World champion. Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez have proven they can draw big money in movies, but look what happened when they got thrown into the mess called Gigli. Keuna Reeves is a draw, but it is obviously much more than him alone that is responsible for the huge sums of money earned by the Matrix movies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TDinDC1112 Report post Posted November 11, 2003 Everyone draws money. Plain and simple - no they don't. In the 80's, the WWF would run 3 shows a night. The wrestlers always wanted to make sure they were on the show with Hogan, because that's the one that made money. Wrestlemania 3 was drawn on 1 match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Doyo Report post Posted November 12, 2003 The non-Hogan shows had to be making a profit or they would not have ran so many of them. Of course Hogan vs. Andre was the major draw of Wrestlemania III, but they each could not have got to that point in their careers without help from all the people they worked with in the past. From all their opponents, to the guys who set up the ring, to the glitzy WWF television production - there were many who did their part to make that event seem important. Imagine what kind of crowd they would have drawn if WWF had announced they were only going to have that one match that night. I can remember the Steamboat vs. Savage match getting promoted a lot on tv also, so that played a helping role in getting fans interested. The Chicago Bulls were a draw during Jordan's first years on the team, but they became an even bigger draw once Pippen and Grant became all stars as his teammates. And they wouldn't have won championships without good coaching and all the role players beneath them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deancoles 0 Report post Posted November 12, 2003 Piper vs Adonis also had a lot of interest because it was Piper's last match before taking 2 years off to do movies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest dvkorn Report post Posted November 12, 2003 (edited) I'm sorry to break this to you, but your citing of those numbers shows a basic misunderstanding on your part of those numbers. The ppv universe back then was very small. For instance, Starrcade 87 was available on like, 5 cable systems in the south. It did a 3.3 buyrate on those systems. That's like saying, if it was available in 100 homes, 3.3 bought it. Survivor Series doubled that buyrate, and probably MILLIONS of people saw it as as it was availble in SOOOOOOO many more homes then WCW was as opposed to a couple of thousand (maybe) seeing Starrcade. A 7 buy rate let's say when you're available in 10 million homes is 700,000 buys. A 3.3 buy rate when you're available in 50,000 homes in 1,500 buys. Those early NWA/WCW buy rates basically put Crockett out of business b/c NO ONE bought them. A buy rate is the percentage of homes that order it in the ppv universe per homes that are ABLE to order it. Those clash ratings are nice, but compare those cable ratings to the NBC (network TV) ratings that WWF was getting for the Main event and SNME's. If we decided to hold a ppv, and it was available in in 10 homes, and 6 people bought it, we could say that we drew a 60 buyrate. Big deal. ok, i grant you... i did not fully understand those buyrates way back when (i am sure i wasn't not alone... well, i hope )... but still just look at the later ones... i am not sure when or if they had the same capabilities as the WWF. If they did in 89 look at those buyrates, if they did in 90 look at those buyrates... with Flair main eventing they still did good numbers... Edited November 12, 2003 by dvkorn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JacK Report post Posted November 12, 2003 Everyone is a draw to someone, every wrestler has fans . . . I'd buy a PPV purely on a Mike Sanders appearance, or Gangrel, because I cheer for them. Now there are others I'd buy a PPV to see, but there the best example I feel in this case, for the others are considered by at least some others as draws, like AJ. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Buzz 0 Report post Posted November 13, 2003 Flair and Inoki drew 125000 fans years ago...so to say Flair isn't a draw is a bit harsh. I've only seen Hogan draw big a few times in the late 80s. If you say he was drawing consistently in the 90s then you obviously forgot that WWF was going bankrupt......so they put the belt on Warrior who couldn't raise the ship up out of the water. Luger has NEVER drawn in my recollection. Sting vs Jake Roberts drew the biggest wcw buyrate for like 6 years until the nWo storyline...and then Sting vs Hogan drew pretty big so Sting has drawn a few times. I do believe the Sting vs Vader matches were decent buyrates as well. The Attitude era is what drew in 98-00 not really any one guy by himself. The biggest draws in wrestling were in the EARLY 1900s....no one will ever beat the amount of people they drew...I believe one match drew in the 200,000 range. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TDinDC1112 Report post Posted November 13, 2003 Flair and Inoki drew 125000 fans years ago...so to say Flair isn't a draw is a bit harsh. I've only seen Hogan draw big a few times in the late 80s. If you say he was drawing consistently in the 90s then you obviously forgot that WWF was going bankrupt......so they put the belt on Warrior who couldn't raise the ship up out of the water. Luger has NEVER drawn in my recollection. Sting vs Jake Roberts drew the biggest wcw buyrate for like 6 years until the nWo storyline...and then Sting vs Hogan drew pretty big so Sting has drawn a few times. I do believe the Sting vs Vader matches were decent buyrates as well. The Attitude era is what drew in 98-00 not really any one guy by himself. The biggest draws in wrestling were in the EARLY 1900s....no one will ever beat the amount of people they drew...I believe one match drew in the 200,000 range. Come one man, get a clue. Those 125,000 fans got in for free and were forced to go by their communist government! Hogan is the biggest, longest most consistent draw in the history of wrestling. Between the U.S. and Japan, he has drawn more shows of 50,000 + people than anyone. Austin created the attitude era. And a match drawing 200,000 in the early 1900s? - no. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Son of Sting Report post Posted November 13, 2003 Here are some stats i pulled from the observer. Major live event draws (based on headlining shows that have drawn more than 30,000) 1- Hashimoto 11 Hogan 11 Muto 11 Tenryu 11 5 - Takada 10 6 - Onita 8 7 - Inoki 7 8 - Sasaki 6 9 - Fujinami 5 Choshu 5 Chono 5 Wrestlers who have drawn more than 1.0 on PPV. Hogan - 23 Austin - 20 Rock - 18 Flair - 17 HHH - 10 Hart - 9 Taker - 7 Sting - 7 Luger - 6 Angle - 6 Foely - 5 Savage - 5 Vince McMahon - 5 Jericho - 4 Andre - 3 Piper - 3 Warrior - 3 Sgt Slaughter - 3 Sid - 3 Yokozuna - 3 HBK - 3 Kane - 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Mandarin 0 Report post Posted November 14, 2003 Starrcade 89 - Round Robin w/ Luger, Muta & Sting Even my grandmother has 15 more points than Muta. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TDinDC1112 Report post Posted November 14, 2003 Here are some stats i pulled from the observer. Major live event draws (based on headlining shows that have drawn more than 30,000) 1- Hashimoto 11 Hogan 11 Muto 11 Tenryu 11 5 - Takada 10 6 - Onita 8 7 - Inoki 7 8 - Sasaki 6 9 - Fujinami 5 Choshu 5 Chono 5 Wrestlers who have drawn more than 1.0 on PPV. Hogan - 23 Austin - 20 Rock - 18 Flair - 17 HHH - 10 Hart - 9 Taker - 7 Sting - 7 Luger - 6 Angle - 6 Foely - 5 Savage - 5 Vince McMahon - 5 Jericho - 4 Andre - 3 Piper - 3 Warrior - 3 Sgt Slaughter - 3 Sid - 3 Yokozuna - 3 HBK - 3 Kane - 3 That was a very informative piece he did - that's where I knew the Hogan stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
