Captain America

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Masked Man of Mystery, you are wrong my good man. Batman studied nearly every form of hand to hand combat known to man for 12 years before he began and has a ton of experience. He is the World's Greatest Detective, Athlete, and Warrior (in present DC Comics continuity) and represents the pinnacle of human achievement in body and mind.

 

That's WITHOUT his huge arsenal.

[Steviekick 0]

I don't see how Bats is DC's worlds greatest athlete/warrior.

[Kardo 0]

Mr Terrific (II) owns him in Athletics

[Steviekick 0]

As for Warrior, I'd go with Green Arrow. Just give him a freaking normal bow and arrow and he could seriously destroy.

[Guest The Midnight Rocking Warrior]

" Survival is a victory"

 

So I suppose that if I fight to a draw with Mike Tyson, you'll say I defeated him? Have a good day

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

" Survival is a victory"

 

So I suppose that if I fight to a draw with Mike Tyson, you'll say I defeated him? Have a good day

That's irrelevant.

 

Batman stopped a nigh-invincible alien by beating the shit out of him long enough for HIS PLAN to break Poison Ivy's spell.

 

That's a victory. You're wrong. Sorry.

[Steviekick 0]

Yeah, but its a victory over Poison Ivy...Superman was just a weapon of hers.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Yeah, but its a victory over Poison Ivy...Superman was just a weapon of hers.

Yes, but Superman failed to destroy him. A being infintely less powerful then he is. Batman out-thought him, that's how he wins his fights. Taking away an opponant's desire to fight is a means to victory. If he couldn't stop Batman... what chance does Cap have?

[Steviekick 0]

Even still...it was not Bats vs. Supes. It was Bats vs. a Poison Ivy controlled Supes, and Bats was trying to snap Supes out of a neurotoxin, not take him out. There's a huge difference.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Even still...it was not Bats vs. Supes. It was Bats vs. a Poison Ivy controlled Supes, and Bats was trying to snap Supes out of a neurotoxin, not take him out. There's a huge difference.

Yes, but Superman still could not kill Batman. That was more my point, that Batman managed to evade being killed long enough to put a plan into action. He could do that against Superman in a life/death situation if it called for it.

[Steviekick 0]

But if it ever came to the two of them throwing down, Superman all the way.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

But if it ever came to the two of them throwing down, Superman all the way.

All evidence to the contrary.

 

Superman's invulnerability makes him overconfident. It's beene xploited before, Batman has the means to kill him.

[Guest The Midnight Rocking Warrior]

Zsaz, I'm talking about the winner of a physical fight, in a legit Dc story, where Bats has never defeated Supes. If your talking about moral victories, Bats couldn't defeat Supes even with a Kryptonite ring. Have a good day

[Big McLargeHuge 0]

Don't you see? Supes could leave Bats paralyzed and beaten to the brink of death, but as long as Supes can't kill him, Batman wins.

 

Is that right?

[Steviekick 0]

I've spent a lot of time thinking over the original Cap/Bats issue...it will come later tonight.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Zsaz, I'm talking about the winner of a physical fight, in a legit Dc story, where Bats has never defeated Supes. If your talking about moral victories, Bats couldn't defeat Supes even with a Kryptonite ring. Have a good day

DKR is a "legit" DC Story. I don't think you worded that correctly. It honestly doesn't matter if it's in current continuity. As for physical victory, read that story. Superman is physically owned. have a good day.

 

Oh and it's been DC canon for a while (since the 70's and O'Neil/Girodano , guys) that Batman is the most dangerous human being alive. Green Arrow hasn't got a hope in hell against a guy who can sneak up on Superman.

 

Please, it's no use talking comics with people who don't know comics that well.

[Guest The Midnight Rocking Warrior]

Dkr is an elseworlds, and Zsaz, if I'm making you angry, that's not my intention. Sorry if I have.

[Guest TheMadmanGreg]

DKR was placed in the Elseworld's category simply because the story arcs that have occured since then have made much of that story impossible. It is not an Elseworld because of unrealistic time/place/characters. We're not talking Batman vs. Dracula here... it's a fight that was at one time considered part of the legic DC Universe and was later taken back to allow for creative decisions to be made contrary to it. Zsasz's point is that, regardless of the Elseworld category, it's a story of how that encounter honestly could happen.

 

Now, personally, comic book writers are a finicky and inconsistent lot, allowing whoever they feel like to win in a battle (hence Hawkman owning Superman last week), so any victory of one character over another, ESPECIALLY in DC/Marvel crossovers, means as much as a flip of a coin.

 

So, in conclusion, Batman > Superman > Captain America > Green Arrow.

[Steviekick 0]

Back to the Cap/Bats thing, they are complete equals. After being snow bound, stacks of comics, and too much coffee, I will provide an educated defense for Cap.

 

Everyone around here seems to say that Bats is a better fighter, thanks to his years of training with assassins and other unsavory characters. Remember that Cap was created/trained to be the ultimate soldier on Earth, and the US government used every resource to do so. I won’t argue that Bats is the best trained fighter on DC Earth, but according to the current Marvel Encyclopedia series (which accounts for statistical ratings in their universe) Cap is the best trained fighter in his world. Actually, he was tied with Wolverine for those who really care. Also, according to one ot the guide to the Marvel Universe profiles, “Captain America is one of the finest human combatants Earth has ever known”. And there is no way that you can argue that the Marvel Universe just produces sucky fighters. Cap and Bats are perfectly equal fighters. Neither one can out skill each other. They’ve each created their own fighting style that is so varied in influences that its hard to stop.

 

Your also forgetting that Batman functions at night and stealth, where Cap is available at all hours of the day. A lot of Bats’ attack is based on hiding/being hidden, part of which is to intimidate your opponent. I really don’t think you can intimidate Cap.

 

People also keep pointing out Bats’ great detective skills, yet this is the first time anyone will have pointed out that Cap is a brilliant field commander/tactician. Cap is just as adept at dissecting an opponent. Hell, with the more varied enemies Cap has been up against, that is how he’s been able to survive. He’s gone up against armies of Nazis, AIM, Hydra, and the Kree. His foes are also very well trained, like Red Skull and Zemo, and he’s even had to go up against demigod foes like Loki and Thanos, both of which he outsmarted. Caps rogues gallery is much more challenging/diverse than Bats’ group of deviant sickos. If you look at their super hero campaigns, Bats is out to protect the citizens of Gotham so they don’t have to go through what he has, whereas Cap is trying to defend the US (and more lately the world) from all

 

Thanks to the super-serum, Cap mops the floor in all the physical strength related categories. He has much more endurance, stamina, agility, lifting capability, and flexibility. Batman is definitely an Olympic level athlete, but Cap is definitely surpasses him in every way.

 

Both men are equally respected by their peers and feared by their enemies. They no how to fight their respective battles, and they win. Batman is a little more intelligent that Cap, but he has much more experience than him. So what separates these two?

 

Their character. Batman is fighting a war to avenge the murder of his parents, and this has left him mentally a wreck. The man really is schizophrenic, and has an immense problem as to who he is...his “alter ego” Bruce Wayne the billionaire playboy, or the Batman that he thinks that he is. It’s been brought up in comics that he uses his Batman person to hide, and that its easier for him to fight crime than identify who he is. Cap is the complete opposite. When he decided to join the army during WWII after seeing a movie of the atrocities caused by the Nazis, it was his sense of doing the right thing that pushed an obviously physically weak Steve Rogers to join the army and risk his life to take the experimental super-serum. From that day, he gave up everything...his family, his dream to be an artist, everything to fight the good fight. Thats what makes him a hero. Cap’s belief in what is right is much stronger than Batman’s quest of retribution.

 

When Batman was broken by Bane, he was worthless. He had given up and lost his pride. His identity was taken from him, and his lack of desire held him back from getting his life back together. When Captain America’s whole life and identity was taken away from him when the US government turned on him because he wouldn’t do something that he felt was morally wrong. Cap didn’t quit. He spent almost a year on his own as Nomad, still fighting for what was right.

 

This is the reason why I believe Cap is better. He is a much more tough and dedicated opponent, and his nobility makes him much stronger. He’s one of the few people not named Thor that can raise Mjolnir.

 

While Batman may win the first round, Captain America will never give up. His character is stronger.

[Special K 0]

In DKR, Batman beats Superman, a much more powerful foe, by outsmarting him, and taking advantage of his weakened state(You DO remember that whole being left a bloody skeleton thing right)?

 

In knightfall, Bane beats Batman, a more powerful foe, by outsmarting him, and taking advantage of his weakened state. (he' is not more intelligent than batman, but he was able to turn his strengths [self reliance, never-say-die attittude] and turn them into weaknesses).

 

You seem to have the opinion that since batman can whip bane in a straight fight, his loss doesn't count. That discounts all of Batman's wins due to his genius.

 

Batman's my 2nd fave hero, but his loss to Bane counts. Doesn't mean he's weaker, and he'll never fall for it again, but it is a legitimate loss.

[Guest The Midnight Rocking Warrior]

K is 100% right, Bane used other people ( Arkahm asylum)

And Bats used Green Arrow and a shitload of Kryptonite. Ok, I'll admit Batman did defeat Supes, in fact the only two living people in the Dc Universe that I think Batman can't beat are the Spectre ( Who has the wrath of God), and WW. But here's an even better question...... who would win the rubber match between Bats and The Hulk? Bats won the first match ( Even though the kick to the stomach, which takes missles, finish was pretty far-fetched) and Ther Hulk immobilized and buried Batman in the rematch ( The Joker had to " dig up" Batman) Who would win the third and deciding bout?

[Steviekick 0]

No clue. Although I do believe that Hulk's rage would definitely make it very difficult for Batman to survive. The angrier the Hulk gets, the more dangerous and powerful he becomes. So the Hulk remembering Batman attacking him once before, and that he survived their last encounter, he'd be pretty steamed. I could really see Batman leading Hulk into a trap (whether makeshift or found on the way) to stop him, kind of like what how Cap stopped a drunken, angry, sky-scraper sized Giant Man over in Ultimates a while back.

[Big McLargeHuge 0]

Batman = HHH.

 

How about Batman vs. Dr. Doom?

[Special K 0]

A HHH comic book hero would get his ass beat for 2 issues then shoot a 'pedigree ;aser' which would never miss and always defeat his foe. It would be thrilling!

 

Batman vs Doom: Bats has a strong chance to win the first time, becauswe Doom would be far to arrogant against a single, normal himan.

 

Rematch has to be really close, though. It would actually be a good fight. Though the sensibilities of the characters are pretty different. (Doom=mad scientist brilliant, while Batman = practical engineer, tactician brilliant.)

[Steviekick 0]

Dr. Doom's activities as of late make him much more of a foe to Batman, especially now that he has taken it upon himself to still be the mad scientist and has taken up his Gypsy heritage. He's now the #2 sorcerer on Marvel earth behind Dr. Strange. He's also much more evil, too. Especially how he got back at Mr. Fantastic by facially scarring him to get revenge. If Doom figures out Bats' secret identity, he'd conjure up the spirits of his dead parents just to mess with him. Or prison them in hell like he did to Reed's kid.

[Special K 0]

vs. threads are fun.

 

Hulk beats Batman (no real weaknesses to exploit, just too tireless.)

 

Wolverine is even in an open environment. (tracking, durability, familiarity with surroundings match Batman's smarts) but gets whupped in an urban environment.

 

I think SApider-man takes Bats in the first encounter. (spider-senses, agility, smart as hell too.)

 

Let's say. .. Daredevil, how does he fare?

[thuganomics 0]

Captain America would beat Batman. Cap doesn't quit. Batman would through every damn thing up against Cap he could, and he would still not be able to stop him. Sure, Batman will probably beat Cap within an inch of his life, but somehow Cap will prevail.

 

Batman could take out dumb Hulk no problem. If Daredevil could do it, Batman wouldn't have a worry. As to Doom, I think Bats would win pre-super mage Doom, but the current Doom might be too much for him.

[Steviekick 0]

Daredevil's not as good a fighter as Batman, but is heightened senses/balance does help him. Batman would propably barely get by him.

[Guest Annoyed Grunt]

I'd imagine that Bats would be able to exploit his enhanced senses and pick up a victory. The Punisher has done it, so Batman would have no problem

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Captain America would beat Batman. Cap doesn't quit. Batman would through every damn thing up against Cap he could, and he would still not be able to stop him. Sure, Batman will probably beat Cap within an inch of his life, but somehow Cap will prevail.

 

Batman could take out dumb Hulk no problem. If Daredevil could do it, Batman wouldn't have a worry. As to Doom, I think Bats would win pre-super mage Doom, but the current Doom might be too much for him.

The question isn't Cap's determination... it's whether he knows enough about hand-to-hand combat to counter Batman's encycolpiedic knowledge, plus his huge arsenal, plus his prpensity for setting traps. It's pretty clear that Bats could take Cap here, but it would be a tough one.

 

Batman vs. The Hulk is impossible to predict because I've seen Hulk take nuclear weapons and keep coming... and then be brought down by a dozen tranq rounds.