Ty cobb

[Guest]

I have heard about how much of a violent racist he was. Does nayone know any stories about this or things he said? Also fel free to contribute stories about other guys like him.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I have a hundred stories and they show how crazy he is...and that he is also the best baseball player ever...

 

but I'll just suggest picking up the biography "Cobb" by Al Stump.

 

Its a page turner...its horrific and exciting all at once.

 

I have to go to class now but I'll leave you with one quick Cobb story that is more about the talent than what he was actually like...

 

 Since Babe Ruth came into the league...all fans wanted to see was homeruns...but Cobb manufactured runs the old way.  Get on base steal second steal third...hell steal home (which he did several times).

 

 At one point Cobb got so fed up with Ruth and his fans (he used to call Ruth a monkey and a half-nigger while walking past his dugout at Yankee games) that he told the press that Homeruns were easy to hit... and he'd prove it by only trying to hit homeruns that day.

 

He hit 3.  The next day he hit 2...just missing a third by a few feet.  

 

After the game he went back to the reporter and said "Now I'm going to go back to playing baseball."

 

 5 Home Runs in 2 games, a record that has been tied many times, but never beaten...yet another record Cobb retired with.

[Guest Some Guy]

Cobb told a story to his team mates about killing a black man by pistol whipping him to death in an alley.  He held the gun by the barrell upside down and beat the guy with the hammer (I think that's what it's called) so the guy would get sliced up instead of just beaten.  He also beat the shit out of a fan at least once for heckling him.

[Guest Choken One]

and yet people bitch about Barry Bonds?

[Guest Crazy Dan]

Just two other stories:

 

Ty Cobb used to slide with one leg aimed for the shin, one aimed higher up on the leg.  So even if you tagged him out, he still nail and cause the infielder pain.  Great sportsmanship there.

 

Also, Cobb was so well respected by his teammates, that he used to sleep with a loaded gun underneath his pillow, because Ty was scared that his teammates will kill him.  

 

Great player, but boy was he ever a complete and utter prick.  I personally can't stand him as a person for having beliefs that would make the KKK blush, and I can't stand the KKK either.

[Guest BlackLight]

And he's also in the Hall of Fame. Something to consider when the question comes up about Pete Rose and Joe Jackson.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

THere was a scandal after the 1919 White Sox that involved Cobb and throwing games (I beleive it was when he was a manager).

 

It was never tried in Baseball court because Cobb claimed to have info on Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis (the commissioner).

 

He later said he was bluffing.

[Guest]

The movie Cobb is good, too. Pete Rose portrays Cobb.

 

Ty Cobb beat up a man in a wheelchair at a game once. He was suspended. His teammates came to his aid, saying the man called him a "half N" (you know the rest of the word) and no man deserved to be called that. The Tigers promptly went on strike and a bunch of college kids played their next game and got walloped. The strike ended there.

 

The old legend is that Ty Cobb's mother shot and killed Ty Cobb's father after she mistook him for a prowler.

 

Cobb's father suspected his wife of having an affair. He had been out one night and came home late. He decided to see if his suspicious were correct. He climbed the trellis up to the second floor balcony, trying to see if anything was going on. He was caught doing so and shot and killed. However, it wasn't Ty Cobb's mother that shot his father. It was Ty Cobb's mother's lover who shot his father.

[Guest ajc]

The movie Cobb is good, too. Pete Rose portrays Cobb.

Actually, Tommy Lee Jones portrays Ty Cobb in that 1994 release.  Robert "Arli$$" Wuhl co-stars, as well.  Roger Clemens has a cameo as an opposing pitcher (I'm sure it was a famous pitcher, but the name escapes me).

 

Pete Rose *did* portray Ty Cobb in the little-seen 1991 flick "Babe Ruth"...not to be confused with the little-seen 1992 flick "The Babe" w/John Goodman.

[Guest DrTom]

Was Cobb a violent racist?  Probably, if the stories about him are true.

 

Do his misdeeds somehow excuse those of Pete Rose and Joe Jackson?  No way.  Rose and Jackson committed acts specifically disallowed by the game of baseball, with a clear penalty for those actions.  Tossing Cobb in there is just an attempt at moral equivalence.

 

Also, keep in mind that Cobb told a lot of the stories himself, so how true some of them are is debateable.  The one about him pistol-whipping the black man to death began with the other man attempting to rob him at gunpoint.  Not that killing someone is an appropriate response to a robbery, but it's not like Cobb just grabbed a pistol and beat some random black man with it.  Besides, this was a story he himself told, so he might have exaggerated or made it up completely.

 

Another thing to consider: Cobb played in an era where racism dominated baseball and American society.  He was elected to the Hall of Fame during the same era.  While we might be more enlightened about some things now, we need to deal with the fact that he's in the HOF for his amazing achievements on the field, and stop judging everything based on our modern standards.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

The thing that baffled me was the press that John Rocker was getting two or three summers ago. I really couldn;t have cared less if the guy was a racist. The guy is just a damn baseball player, his political views mean nothing. I could see how people would be offended, but his scathing remarks mean no more than those of any idiot. To be quite honets with you, I would rather deal with someone who is a known racist than a closet racist. I liken it to walking on a mine field. I would rather no where the mines are and walk around them than have my foot blown off by stepping onto one unwittingly. Sure you could say you would rather not walk on a mine field, but like it or not, that's what we have.

[Guest Brush with Greatness]

The thing is Dr. Tom, in respect to Pete Rose, he never did anything to deface the game of baseball as a player.  So why not just judge his playing career when it comes to whether or not he should be in the HOF, as we are not judging others on their personal history.

 

Now if Pete Rose had been the greatest manager in history and also found to have gambled on the games he was managing then don't let him in as a manager.

 

When it comes to whether Rose should be in the HOF I say go from point A when his playing career began to point B when he retired as a player.  Thats if we are judging athletes on their playing days and not on character.  If we judge on character the whole system goes out the door.

[Guest DrTom]

"The thing is Dr. Tom, in respect to Pete Rose, he never did anything to deface the game of baseball as a player.  So why not just judge his playing career when it comes to whether or not he should be in the HOF, as we are not judging others on their personal history."

 

No, he never did anything to degrade or dishonor baseball when he played.  However, being the manager of a major league team isn't just "personal history."  He's still a part of baseball, still drawing a check from a major-league team, and his actions still reflect on the game.  When he bet on his own team, that reflected on the game of baseball; in fact, it's the game's cardinal sin.  Sorry, but that irreparably tarnishes his accomplishments as a player.  After all, what have you done for me lately?

[Guest]

The thing that baffled me was the press that John Rocker was getting two or three summers ago. I really couldn;t have cared less if the guy was a racist. The guy is just a damn baseball player, his political views mean nothing. I could see how people would be offended, but his scathing remarks mean no more than those of any idiot. To be quite honets with you, I would rather deal with someone who is a known racist than a closet racist. I liken it to walking on a mine field. I would rather no where the mines are and walk around them than have my foot blown off by stepping onto one unwittingly. Sure you could say you would rather not walk on a mine field, but like it or not, that's what we have.

Rocker was wrong to say what he did and his remarks shouldn't be regarded as any less.

 

But...

 

Sports Illustrated basically wanted to start some trouble. The interview was in the middle of winter - not the summer - and the writer (who made David Wells mad a year or two ago) came to Rocker's hometown.

 

He didn't have to print the article. It had nothing to do with sports other than Rocker being a player.

 

It was wrong to suspend Rocker for what he said. He didn't break any of baseball's rules. I would doubt that Rocker enjoyed seeing it in print, either. I wouldn't be surprised if it was part of a private conversation and Rocker either didn't think it'd be printed or he didn't think to tell the writer that he wished it to remain private conversation.

[Guest Human Fly]

The Hall of Fame will never be legit to me without Pete Rose in it. I will never step foot in the HOF until Pete is in.

[Guest DrTom]

"The Hall of Fame will never be legit to me without Pete Rose in it. I will never step foot in the HOF until Pete is in."

 

I'm the complete opposite.  Putting Rose in there tarnishes everything.  He brought disgrace upon himself and the game the claimed to love, the game that made him famous.  Of course, he's become a sympathetic figure in America over the last few years, which is both very sad and not surprising at all.

[Guest Grand Slam]

I used to be the biggest Pete Rose supporter there was.  I grew up in the Cincinnati area during the later days of the Big Red Machine.  Pete Rose, Johnny Bench, Dave Concepcion, George Foster, Tony Perez... I have to think that was one of the greatest baseball teams ever assembled.  So when Pete came back to manage the Reds, I was overjoyed.  I remember listening to his first game back on a transistor radio at Ponderosa during dinner and giving updates to everyone around me.  So the accusations against him were like a gunshot to the heart.  Cincinnati fans went on the defensive.  We were determined to keep the memory of one of our heroes untarnished.  And that is where I stayed on the matter for many years.

 

But, as I grew older, I read the report and I listened to what Pete was saying and I came to the conclusion that while they never proved he bet on the Reds while he was a manager, he did bet on baseball.  A lot of baseball.  All I wanted was Pete to come out and say, "They are right.  I bet on baseball.  I am addicted to gambling and I need help.  But I never bet on my own team."  He would still have been suspended for life, he still wouldn't be in the Hall, but the rancor, the venom that baseball feels towards Pete Rose would have been greatly diminished.

 

Did he ever do that?  No.  he has insisted, despite overwhelming evidence, that he never bet on anything.  He continues to gamble at horse races.  And I started to wonder... what else is he lying about?  And as soon as I thought that, I grew up.  I became more cynical and pessimistic about him and his entry to the Hall of Fame.

 

I guess, in the end, my feelings can be summed up like this:

 

I don't care if he is in or not.  The validity of the Hall is fine for me either way.  In my opinion, only Pete is suffering.  And, as bad as this sounds, until he is willing to at least meet baseball halfway, let him suffer.