Religion--yay or nay?

[Guest]

Heck, I'm RELIGIOUS and I don't pray all that often. It's not that involuntary.

Do you watch thousands of people die all that often?

Hmm, maybe you weren't trying to be a bastard after all. Maybe you were just being a thickheaded idiot, as usual. Let me try to explain it to you one more time, in the context of your submoronic would-be parallel.

 

Hindus believe cows are sacred. I eat cows regularly.

You know why?

Because I DON'T BELIEVE THEY'RE SACRED.

Belief in the sanctity of cows is not a universal human trait. The desire to believe in some kind of divinity, to believe that there is some kind of order to the universe, is. That is why religion is found all over the world in one form or another. As usual, your argument is either deceitful or brainless.

In times of extreme stress, the desire to believe something comforting easily conquers logic. I prayed out of desperation and the desire to believe, not belief. Have you ever hoped that something extremely unlikely would happen? Like the teacher wouldn't pass out a biology test you hadn't studied for, even as he picked up a stack of papers that looked awfully like biology tests? Or, to take a random example, that a skyscraper wouldn't collapse after an exploding aeroplane tore a gigantic hole in its side? If so, you know what I'm talking about. You just don't want to admit it.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

<<<Quote  

Heck, I'm RELIGIOUS and I don't pray all that often. It's not that involuntary. >>>

 

 

<<<Do you watch thousands of people die all that often?>>>

 

 

Fortunately, no. But, again, you dodge the issue.

 

If you don't believe that God exists--WHY are you praying to Him? It makes no sense to pray to something that you don't think exists?

 

It'd be like me praying to Santa Clause.

 

 

<<<Hmm, maybe you weren't trying to be a bastard after all. Maybe you were just being a thickheaded idiot, as usual. Let me try to explain it to you one more time, in the context of your submoronic would-be parallel.>>>

 

 

Wow, MORE insults.

 

Amazing how many insults I generate when I do so little insulting of others.

 

I've been nothing but respectful to you here---but YOU have become QUITE personal and petty with your insults.

 

 

<<<Quote  

Hindus believe cows are sacred. I eat cows regularly.

You know why?

Because I DON'T BELIEVE THEY'RE SACRED.

Belief in the sanctity of cows is not a universal human trait. The desire to believe in some kind of divinity, to believe that there is some kind of order to the universe, is. >>>

 

 

Says who? I know plenty of people who have no problem with their belief that God doesn't exist. Heck, several are on this board. Maybe THEY can answer this better than I---but did ANY of the other professed athiests pray to God when they saw people jumping?

 

 

<<<That is why religion is found all over the world in one form or another. As usual, your argument is either deceitful or brainless.>>>

 

 

No, you just decide to get personal when your intellect fails you.

 

 

<<<In times of extreme stress, the desire to believe something comforting easily conquers logic. I prayed out of desperation and the desire to believe, not belief.>>>

 

 

Again, why not pray to Santa Clause?

 

What is the difference between non-existent beings after all?

 

When things go badly for me, I don't suddenly pray to Odin or Ra to help me.

 

Why?

 

Because I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY EXIST.

 

 

<<<Have you ever hoped that something extremely unlikely would happen? Like the teacher wouldn't pass out a biology test you hadn't studied for, even as he picked up a stack of papers that looked awfully like biology tests? Or, to take a random example, that a skyscraper wouldn't collapse after an exploding aeroplane tore a gigantic hole in its side? If so, you know what I'm talking about. You just don't want to admit it.>>>

 

 

No, your attempts at comparison are horrible here.

 

World of difference between "hoping" that they'd not die and "praying" (your EXACT words---not mine) that they wouldn't.

 

Then you have the audacity to be upset at a being that you don't believe exists for not saving them.

 

Again, it'd be like me blaming Thor because lightning caused my VCR to blow up 2 yrs ago.

                               -=Mike

 

...Still being civil. :-)

[Guest]

No, you just decide to get personal when your intellect fails you.

I like your definition of civility... it seems to be fairly elastic. But then, I guess I should expect no less from a hypocrite.

More to the point, your Hindu/cow comparison was the flimsiest of straw men, as I've pointed out already. If you set it up deliberately, you were being deceitful. If you didn't, you were being dumb. So which was it? Are you a liar or an idiot?

 

Wow, MORE insults.

You don't need to point out that I'm insulting you, Mike. I freely admit it. I like insulting you. It's fun, and it gives me something to do while writing these extraordinarily boring and pointless posts. If being "civil" blows up your skirt, by all means, continue to be civil; just understand that my tastes are different from yours. You amuse yourself in your way and I'll amuse myself in mine.

Besides, if you keep this up with every insult your posts will become even more tiresomely long. Could you possibly start quoting only the relevant bits of a post, rather than the whole fucking thing? If someone wants to read the whole goddamn thread all he has to do is hit Page Up.

 

Says who? I know plenty of people who have no problem with their belief that God doesn't exist. Heck, several are on this board.

Then please explain why so many religions exist in so many places, and why they all have the common theme that I cited, despite the fantastic variation in their other characteristics. Saying "Because God came to a bunch of different people in different forms" will be considered cheating.

 

Again, why not pray to Santa Clause?

Because there's a world of difference between Santa Claus (no e, you nincompoop) and God. No one believes in Santa Claus. Lots of people believe in God. As you should know, Mr America Was Founded By Judeo-Christian White People, belief in God is fairly pervasive in this country. It's more cultural than religious.

Besides, why the fuck would you pray to a fat man in a red suit who brings you presents at the end of December, you retard, to save people from certain death? I can't believe you're this dumb. It has to be an act.

 

World of difference between "hoping" that they'd not die and "praying" (your EXACT words---not mine) that they wouldn't.

I'm not revising my words, cretin. You don't have to remind me of them. I know perfectly well what I said, and I was being absolutely honest and accurate. I was praying. I was also hoping - I was hoping that my prayers would work. It was completely illogical, yes, but logic wasn't a huge part of that day.

 

Then you have the audacity to be upset at a being that you don't believe exists for not saving them.

Oh, spare me the bullshit for just one post, would you please? I'm not "upset" with God. I'm furious with him... if he exists. If he doesn't, I couldn't be. I won't find out for some time. (And I'm not an atheist. I never said I was. I'm an agnostic. I don't like religion, but I don't pretend to any certain knowledge about God.)

[Guest DrTom]

"Maybe THEY can answer this better than I---but did ANY of the other professed athiests pray to God when they saw people jumping?"

 

Nope, not once.  I just shook my head with sadness and rage.

[Guest]

He doesn't post here, but you might have heard of him anyway. Dan Savage, a professed atheist, wrote this in his 9/26/01 column:

Who could be against prayer at a time like this? Or God? Well, I am. Does anyone doubt for a moment that the people on those four doomed planes were praying? Or that the people hanging out the windows at the World Trade Center were praying? After the first tower collapsed, how many people watching events unfold on their television sets started praying for the second tower not to fall? Jesus, I even slipped up and said a prayer. And what good did all that prayer do?

Happy, Mike?

[Guest RetroRob215]

"Maybe THEY can answer this better than I---but did ANY of the other professed athiests pray to God when they saw people jumping?"

 

Nope, not once.  I just shook my head with sadness and rage.

Same here, but I have a question for all the bible thumpers involved in this thread.  I remember one of you said that "the monkeys who did this will go to hell" or something like that.  Well, seeing how there are SO many religions, who's to say the one you follow is the "real one"?  I always wondered this...lets assume Christianity is "real" and the other religions of world aren't.  What would happen to the Muslims, Hindus, and Jews when they died?  Would they go to heaven because your god is a nice guy, or would they go to hell because they didn't believe in the father, the son and the holy spirit?  Then of course, if Islam is the only real religion, what would happen to you guys?

[Guest]

What if there is just one God and all the religons of the world are just different interpertations of him?

 

Human beings will never known God 100%.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

<<<Quote (DrTom @ May 05 2002,01:15)

"Maybe THEY can answer this better than I---but did ANY of the other professed athiests pray to God when they saw people jumping?"

 

Nope, not once.  I just shook my head with sadness and rage.

 

Same here, but I have a question for all the bible thumpers involved in this thread.>>>

 

 

I'm hardly a Bible thumper---but I'll answer.

 

 

<<<I remember one of you said that "the monkeys who did this will go to hell" or something like that.>>>

 

 

That would be me.

 

 

<<<Well, seeing how there are SO many religions, who's to say the one you follow is the "real one"?  I always wondered this...lets assume Christianity is "real" and the other religions of world aren't.  What would happen to the Muslims, Hindus, and Jews when they died?  Would they go to heaven because your god is a nice guy, or would they go to hell because they didn't believe in the father, the son and the holy spirit?>>>

 

 

I believe that all religions believe in the same God. Most religions have similar tales (I am almost positive that ALL of them have a great flood at some point) and that is because, IMHO, they all worship the same deity---just in different ways.

 

I don't begin to assume that the Muslim Church teaches Islam as it is intended to be taught---just as I am positive that the Catholic Church didn't teach Christianity for hundreds of years and still doesn't do this to day.

 

 

<<<Then of course, if Islam is the only real religion, what would happen to you guys? >>>

 

 

Seeing as how in my view God is infinitely forgiving, nothing would happen. As long as I didn't cause intentional grievous harm upon the other people of the world, I'd go to heaven.

 

Ditto atheists.

 

Ditto agnostics.

                     -=Mike

 

...Blessed, I suppose.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

He doesn't post here, but you might have heard of him anyway. Dan Savage, a professed atheist, wrote this in his 9/26/01 column:Quote  

Who could be against prayer at a time like this? Or God? Well, I am. Does anyone doubt for a moment that the people on those four doomed planes were praying? Or that the people hanging out the windows at the World Trade Center were praying? After the first tower collapsed, how many people watching events unfold on their television sets started praying for the second tower not to fall? Jesus, I even slipped up and said a prayer. And what good did all that prayer do?

Happy, Mike? >>>

 

 

Then what YOU and Dan Savage are are AGNOSTICS---not atheists. There is a considerable difference.

 

BOTH of you prayed (your own words) to a being that neither of you believe exists. What is the point---to show those "idiotic Christians/Jews/whatever" the "folly" of their beliefs? Maybe you're  DEVOUT believer in chaos theory and think that, somehow, the breath you exhale to utte a prayer will trigger a massive windstorm that will blow the falling bodies to safety---but I doubt it.

 

BOTH of you express anger at a being you don't believe exists for not saving those people. Again, WHY? If you don't think God exists, why would you be angry at Him for not saving the people? It'd be like me getting pissed off at Santa Clause because I don't wake up on Christmas morning and find a brand new car with a hot---yet quite naked---woman sitting in the front seat, beckoning me to "have my way with her".

 

Or, to use this example once again, it'd be like me blaming Thor because lightning destroyed my VCR two years ago.

                              -=Mike

[Guest TheMikeSC]

<<<Quote  

No, you just decide to get personal when your intellect fails you.

 

I like your definition of civility... it seems to be fairly elastic. But then, I guess I should expect no less from a hypocrite.>>>

 

 

You mistake disagreement for incivility.

 

When did I attack you? When did I call you names?

 

I can point to when you did it to me.

 

And if calling me a hypocrite without actually pointing to any semblance of hypocrisy makes you all warm and fuzzy inside, so be it.

 

 

<<<More to the point, your Hindu/cow comparison was the flimsiest of straw men, as I've pointed out already. If you set it up deliberately, you were being deceitful. If you didn't, you were being dumb. So which was it? Are you a liar or an idiot?>>>

 

 

No, it's COMPLETELY appropriate. YOU don't like it because YOU have doubts about what YOU truly believe.

 

 

<<<Quote  

Wow, MORE insults.

 

You don't need to point out that I'm insulting you, Mike. I freely admit it. I like insulting you. It's fun, and it gives me something to do while writing these extraordinarily boring and pointless posts.>>>

 

 

You could always NOT write them.

 

Wouldn't be much skin off my back.

 

 

<<<If being "civil" blows up your skirt, by all means, continue to be civil; just understand that my tastes are different from yours. You amuse yourself in your way and I'll amuse myself in mine.>>>

 

 

I'll stick with the path of using intellect in a debate.

 

You can continue down whatever path you so choose.

 

 

<<<Besides, if you keep this up with every insult your posts will become even more tiresomely long. Could you possibly start quoting only the relevant bits of a post, rather than the whole fucking thing?>>>

 

 

No. If I'm replying to something, there will be no question as to what I'm replying to and no complaints that I'm misquoting you.

 

 

<<<If someone wants to read the whole goddamn thread all he has to do is hit Page Up.>>>

 

 

Yes, they could.

 

Or they could read what is being replied to in the body of the post.

 

 

<<<Quote  

Says who? I know plenty of people who have no problem with their belief that God doesn't exist. Heck, several are on this board.

 

Then please explain why so many religions exist in so many places, and why they all have the common theme that I cited, despite the fantastic variation in their other characteristics. Saying "Because God came to a bunch of different people in different forms" will be considered cheating.>>>

 

 

All worship the same God. They all worship in different ways.

 

It blows my mind that it almost seems to offend you that most believe in God.

 

Remember how I said I don't care if somebody is gay or not?

 

Try doing that with religion. You'll be MUCH less unhappy.

 

 

<<<Quote  

Again, why not pray to Santa Clause?

 

Because there's a world of difference between Santa Claus (no e, you nincompoop) and God. No one believes in Santa Claus. Lots of people believe in God.>>>

 

 

Hmm, interesting logical step here.

 

You claim to NOT believe in God (atheism).

 

Atheists don't CARE how many people believe in God. They still don't.

 

Using your logic, anybody who goes to Haiti will subscribe to voodooism.

 

 

<<<As you should know, Mr America Was Founded By Judeo-Christian White People, belief in God is fairly pervasive in this country.>>>

 

 

I'm not sure you could possibly deliver a less relevant point than this.

 

You are an expressed atheist. That Savage character you quoted elsewhere claims to be an atheist.

 

Why in the world does the fact that A LOT of people believe in God affect YOU in any way?

 

It's almost as if you are being "atheist" to be different.

 

 

<<<It's more cultural than religious.>>>

 

 

The atheists on this board don't seem to stand with you on this one.

 

 

<<<Besides, why the fuck would you pray to a fat man in a red suit who brings you presents at the end of December, you retard, to save people from certain death? I can't believe you're this dumb. It has to be an act.>>>

 

 

Why would you pray to a being you don't believe exists? It defies ANY logical explanation--and, sadly, you are unable to provide one for it.

 

 

<<<Quote  

World of difference between "hoping" that they'd not die and "praying" (your EXACT words---not mine) that they wouldn't.

 

I'm not revising my words, cretin. You don't have to remind me of them. I know perfectly well what I said, and I was being absolutely honest and accurate.

I was praying. I was also hoping - I was hoping that my prayers would work. It was completely illogical, yes, but logic wasn't a huge part of that day.>>>

 

 

No, it shows how utterly shallow your belief system happens to be.

 

Ultimately, not my problem.

 

 

<<<Quote  

Then you have the audacity to be upset at a being that you don't believe exists for not saving them.

 

Oh, spare me the bullshit for just one post, would you please? I'm not "upset" with God. I'm furious with him... if he exists. If he doesn't, I couldn't be.>>>

 

 

Again, if you seriously doubt He exists, then prayer is a massive waste of time.

 

Then again, you seem to enjoy posting here, even though you find this "boring"---so maybe wasting your time isn't a big deal to you.

 

<<<I won't find out for some time. (And I'm not an atheist. I never said I was. I'm an agnostic. I don't like religion, but I don't pretend to any certain knowledge about God.)>>>

 

 

You've professed atheism in the past. The putz you quoted professed atheism and was the exact same as you---illogical and inconsistent to a shocking degree.

 

But, hey, it's not my problem.

 

I'm quite happy and satisfied with my life. I am nice and polite to people of all types because I recognize that insulting people shows a shocking dearth of intellect and absolutely abhorrent manners.

 

In time, you will eventually realize that as well.

                     -=Mike

 

...Well, we hope.

[Guest]

in my view God is infinitely forgiving

Please reconcile this with your earlier statement:

And the monkeys who flew the planes into the buildings are experiencing misey unlike anything we can hope to imagine.

 

YOU don't like it because YOU have doubts about what YOU truly believe.

Of course I do, Mike. It's called rationality.

 

You could always NOT write [insults].

Wouldn't be much skin off my back.

It's more fun this way.

 

no complaints that I'm misquoting you.

If you misquote me, I'll correct you, and I won't hold it against you. I don't need to whine to make my points.

 

It blows my mind that it almost seems to offend you that most believe in God.

Remember how I said I don't care if somebody is gay or not?

Try doing that with religion. You'll be MUCH less unhappy.

It doesn't offend me. In one way, it vaguely irritates me; in another, it makes me sad; in a third, it makes me think, "Hey, maybe I'm wrong." See Mike, I'm not as conceited as you seem to think I am. And I don't see doubt as something evil. I accept it as an inevitable consequence of being human. As for my happiness, well, that isn't really my concern.

 

You claim to NOT believe in God (atheism).

Wrong.

I never said I'm an atheist, and I'm not.

 

Atheists don't CARE how many people believe in God. They still don't.

Using your logic, anybody who goes to Haiti will subscribe to voodooism.

No, because my logic goes like this: I'm one person who's lived 24 years. On the other hand, countless others have believed in God over many millennia. I think that's because they're wrong and I'm right, but I'm not sure. I'm not that arrogant. I'm not talking about specifics, so your voodoo example is misplaced. I'm just saying that the common thread, that something else is out there, might be true. I don't know, and I'm very willing to say that I don't know.

 

You are an expressed atheist. That Savage character you quoted elsewhere claims to be an atheist.

Wrong on the first count. As far as I know, you're right on the second count.

 

Why in the world does the fact that A LOT of people believe in God affect YOU in any way?

Explained this already.

 

It's almost as if you are being "atheist" to be different.

Yet again, I'm not an atheist.

 

<<<It's more cultural than religious.>>>

The atheists on this board don't seem to stand with you on this one.

Make up your mind, shithead. On the one hand you say that I should stick to my own beliefs no matter what anyone else says, on the other, you imply that my beliefs are irrelevant because the majority seems to disagree with me. You wanted an example of hypocrisy? There it is.

 

No, it shows how utterly shallow your belief system happens to be.

I don't have any religious belief system at all. Of course it's shallow; it doesn't exist. Any more devastating indictments up your sleeve?

 

if you seriously doubt He exists, then prayer is a massive waste of time.

I've explained this adequately already. You fail to understand, or you pretend you fail to understand. Fine. Unlike you, I won't keep reiterating the same thing.

 

Then again, you seem to enjoy posting here, even though you find this "boring"---so maybe wasting your time isn't a big deal to you.

Nope, not really. I'm just killing time.

 

When did I attack you? When did I call you names?

I can point to when you did it to me...

I am nice and polite to people of all types because I recognize that insulting people shows a shocking dearth of intellect and absolutely abhorrent manners.

In time, you will eventually realize that as well.

Very impressive, the way you can simultaneously put on a pompous, patronising air, and a self-congratulatory air - and still whine like a beaten cur at the same time. Do you ever stop whining?

[Guest TheMikeSC]

<<<Quote  

in my view God is infinitely forgiving

 

Please reconcile this with your earlier statement

 

:Quote  

And the monkeys who flew the planes into the buildings are experiencing misey unlike anything we can hope to imagine. >>>

 

 

One need only ASK for is forgiveness. If you repent, He will forgive you.

 

 

<<<Quote  

YOU don't like it because YOU have doubts about what YOU truly believe.

 

Of course I do, Mike. It's called rationality.>>>

 

 

No, it's called being wishy-washy---but hey, it's your life. Call it whatever you want.

 

 

<<<Quote  

You could always NOT write [insults].

Wouldn't be much skin off my back.

 

It's more fun this way.>>>

 

 

Who was it who said that you'll never go broke underestimating people's intelligence?

 

 

<<<Quote  

no complaints that I'm misquoting you.

 

If you misquote me, I'll correct you, and I won't hold it against you. I don't need to whine to make my points.>>>

 

 

You don't MAKE any points.

 

You need to MAKE a point first.

 

Just some advice given to somebody over her head.

 

 

<<<Quote  

 

It blows my mind that it almost seems to offend you that most believe in God.

Remember how I said I don't care if somebody is gay or not?

Try doing that with religion. You'll be MUCH less unhappy.

 

It doesn't offend me. In one way, it vaguely irritates me>>>

 

 

Why? You being gay doesn't begin to irritate me. It doesn't matter to me what YOU do because I don't know you---nor will I ever.

 

 

<<<, in another, it makes me sad; in a third, it makes me think, "Hey, maybe I'm wrong." See Mike, I'm not as conceited as you seem to think I am.>>>

 

 

Actually, I think you're extremely bitter. I don't know why---but more importantly, I don't care why.

 

 

<<<And I don't see doubt as something evil. I accept it as an inevitable consequence of being human. As for my happiness, well, that isn't really my concern.>>>

 

 

Wow, your happiness isn't your concern? I won't even guess whose concern it is.

 

 

<<<Quote  

You claim to NOT believe in God (atheism).

Wrong.

I never said I'm an atheist, and I'm not.

 

Quote  

Atheists don't CARE how many people believe in God. They still don't.

Using your logic, anybody who goes to Haiti will subscribe to voodooism.

 

No, because my logic goes like this: I'm one person who's lived 24 years. On the other hand, countless others have believed in God over many millennia. I think that's because they're wrong and I'm right, but I'm not sure. I'm not that arrogant. I'm not talking about specifics, so your voodoo example is misplaced. I'm just saying that the common thread, that something else is out there, might be true. I don't know, and I'm very willing to say that I don't know.>>>

 

 

Fine and dandy.

 

 

<<<Quote  

You are an expressed atheist. That Savage character you quoted elsewhere claims to be an atheist.

Wrong on the first count. As far as I know, you're right on the second count.

 

Quote  

Why in the world does the fact that A LOT of people believe in God affect YOU in any way?

Explained this already.

 

Quote  

It's almost as if you are being "atheist" to be different.

Yet again, I'm not an atheist.

 

Quote  

<<<It's more cultural than religious.>>>

The atheists on this board don't seem to stand with you on this one.

Make up your mind, shithead. On the one hand you say that I should stick to my own beliefs no matter what anyone else says, on the other, you imply that my beliefs are irrelevant because the majority seems to disagree with me. You wanted an example of hypocrisy? There it is.>>>

 

 

You said it was cultural. You, apparently, are a part of a different culture.

 

So be it.

 

I lack the concern about you to be hypocritical about you.

 

 

<<<Quote  

 

No, it shows how utterly shallow your belief system happens to be.

I don't have any religious belief system at all. Of course it's shallow; it doesn't exist. Any more devastating indictments up your sleeve?>>>

 

 

Nah---I'm just letting you tie your own noose presently.

 

 

<<<Quote  

 

if you seriously doubt He exists, then prayer is a massive waste of time.

 

I've explained this adequately already. You fail to understand, or you pretend you fail to understand. Fine. Unlike you, I won't keep reiterating the same thing.>>>

 

 

You can't explain it because it's completely illogical. I'm religious---I can say I prayed for them and WHY I prayed for them.

 

 

<<<Quote  

Then again, you seem to enjoy posting here, even though you find this "boring"---

so maybe wasting your time isn't a big deal to you.

 

Nope, not really. I'm just killing time.>>>

 

 

Wow. How sad is a life when doing something that you don't enjoy is a worthwhile pursuit?

 

 

<<<Quote  

When did I attack you? When did I call you names?

I can point to when you did it to me...

I am nice and polite to people of all types because I recognize that insulting people shows a shocking dearth of intellect and absolutely abhorrent manners.

In time, you will eventually realize that as well.

 

Very impressive, the way you can simultaneously put on a pompous, patronising air, and a self-congratulatory air - and still whine like a beaten cur at the same time. Do you ever stop whining? >>>

 

 

Hardly whining. I STILL refute your points WHILE mentioning that the insults demonstrate how badly your intellect failed you (when, clearly, your arguments are damnable proof of intellectual failure without the insults)

                             -=Mike

 

...As I always say, those who revert to insults have no intelligent point to make. Glad to see I'm proven right.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

And, Marney, for the sake of the board's sanity, I'll go ahead and end this idiotic argument as it is becoming tiresome to watch you snipe and gripe. I can't refute your points because you have long ceased to attempt to make any. If I wish to get into a childish insult conflict, I have friends more capable than you of at least amusing me in the process.

 

Feel free to continue insulting others, though.

 

I'd hate to deprive you of your pleasure here.

                 -=Mike

[Guest]

<<<>>>Then again, you seem to enjoy posting here, even though you find this "boring"---

so maybe wasting your time isn't a big deal to you.<<<

Nope, not really. I'm just killing time.>>>

Wow. How sad is a life when doing something that you don't enjoy is a worthwhile pursuit?

"Nope" referred to wasting my time here not being a big deal to me. I do enjoy it occasionally.

 

And, Marney, for the sake of the board's sanity, I'll go ahead and end this idiotic argument as it is becoming tiresome to watch you snipe and gripe.

If you were more interested in the "board's sanity" than in getting in the last word and quickly running away, you wouldn't have bothered to write this. You're just pandering to your own ego, and trying to make it looks somehow noble.

 

I can't refute your points because you have long ceased to attempt to make any.

I made all my points in my first few posts. Since then I've just been trying to explain them. But you've constructed an artificial hostility (admittedly, I helped you with the regular insults, which I never take seriously though you seem to) and you're now convinced that I hate you or something. I don't. I think you're a fairly intelligent chap, just a little inexperienced and young, maybe a bit lacking in human sympathy. Maybe slightly cocksure, but not a bad guy, all things considered. If you want to turn that into a one-sided enmity because of some meaningless words on an Internet message board, I guess I can't stop you.

[Guest]

Let's start a poll to see how many people on this board believe in God and don't believe in God and another poll to why to just end the argument there.

[Guest RetroRob215]

This should be fun...

 

I DO NOT believe in god because...

 

If there was a god who is so loving and caring, why do such horrible things happen?  If god is so great, than how come he never actually comes through?  If god planned out each and every one of our fates, then why did so many peple have to die on 9/11?  Was that part of his great plan too?  Or maybe god was kicking back in his Lazy Boy that morning.

 

I also have trouble believe in this one higher being.  How the hell did he come about?  Why would god create an entire universe if he only wanted people to live on Earth?  Why would god give Jupiter 20 moons?  If god loves everyone and wants the human race to live on forever, why is the sun going to die leaving the Earth nothing more than a frozen rock floating around?  

 

Some of those questions maybe a little messed up, but that's the best I could come up with right now.  I could go on forever about why I hate the Catholic religion, but that's for another day...

[Guest]

Yep, I'll go with everything Rob said, except for the Earth becoming a frozen rock thing. It'll be burned to a cinder first.

 

Only, these aren't reasons I disbelieve in God - these are reasons I doubt the silly Christian fantasy of a beneficent, merciful, omnipotent God. I can easily imagine an evil, cruel, omnipotent God, or a beneficent, merciful, limited God, or no God at all. In any case, if he exists, when I meet him, the first thing he'll get from me is a really hard kick in the nuts. And next I'll want a fucking good explanation.

[Guest converge241]

Im totally against organized religion. it just seems to me people abuse it on both sides..or you have too many others who are blindly following it..How many people beat their kids/do drugs and then go to church to "cleanse" every sunday..

I do belive in something but i could never have an authority tell me how to modify or follow my belief, i just have my own ideas and think there is something like a God out there and live that way..

An example would be cloning.. i think that it is very wrong and is definetly tampering with some kind of force of order. There has to be a soul.

[Guest DragonflyKid]

Just for those who haven't read Nietzsche's classic Thus Spoke Zarathustra, there is an easy to read adaptation of it at http://www.inquiria.com/nz/zarathustra.html

 

It's a great piece of philosophy and literature which I highly recommend.

 

If anyone has seen Fight Club or read the book you'll also notice the similarities between the Tyler Durden character and Zarathustra, Durden speaks out against the religion of consumerism while Zarathustra spoke out against Christianity. They both speak of perseverance, individuality and personal power and speak out against castrating,conformist, herd-animal virtues.

[Guest J*ingus]

Of course, the irony in Fight Club is that Tyler's followers are still castrating, conformist herd animals; they're just conforming to each other instead of society as a whole.

[Guest DragonflyKid]

I too noticed the ironies and contradictions of Fight Club but still thought the movie and book were great and have a sound philosophical premise.

 

Individuality is a lofty goal but can also be isolating. Conformity and unity, even if artificial are safer than standing on your own. Even if one removes oneself from the conformity of society one must also overcome one's fears of being oneself even if it means one must become isolated, or else one will just remain a follower and conform to something new. Its like those who get tattoos, piercings, dyed hair and such, such gimmicks only exhibit one conforming to what is not mainstreamed, one is not assuming true individuality.

[Guest]

This should be fun...

 

I DO NOT believe in god because...

 

If there was a god who is so loving and caring, why do such horrible things happen?  If god is so great, than how come he never actually comes through?  If god planned out each and every one of our fates, then why did so many peple have to die on 9/11?  Was that part of his great plan too?  Or maybe god was kicking back in his Lazy Boy that morning.

 

I also have trouble believe in this one higher being.  How the hell did he come about?  Why would god create an entire universe if he only wanted people to live on Earth?  Why would god give Jupiter 20 moons?  If god loves everyone and wants the human race to live on forever, why is the sun going to die leaving the Earth nothing more than a frozen rock floating around?  

 

Some of those questions maybe a little messed up, but that's the best I could come up with right now.  I could go on forever about why I hate the Catholic religion, but that's for another day...

It's called free will.

 

I told you. I believe God doesn't interfere in our lives that much except if we really need it. He only gives us what he knows we can handle.

 

I believe in a higher power because there has to be more life than there is on earth. We may not be the most intelligent beings in the galaxy. There has to be more life out there.

[Guest DragonflyKid]

Even if there is a higher power out there that created the universe that in no way means the religious portrayals of God are valid. I consider myself an agnostic, but I consider myself an atheist when it concerns belief in religious ideas of God.

 

God if it(I consider God if it exists to be hermaphroditic or asexual, a single sex would exhibit imperfection.) exists has never spoken to me personally, it has never told me it loves me and thou shalt not blah, blah, blah; I only see a seemingly godless, violent world of  predator and prey and put no value in the artificial morals and comforts religions express.

 

God gives us things such as disease, violence, famine, etc., and this is supposed to be justified by the fact it's tolerable?, that hardships are God's gifts we should take thankfully? He seems like a sadist and a voyuer who created man not out of love but out of boredom. After billions of years he grew weary and decided he should create an intellectually sophisticated animal species for entertainment purposes and then watch intently at the drama, mischief, anguish, conflict, comedy, death, etc., that ensues, sort of like MTV's The Real World on a large scale.

 

There is free will but there is also fate and the old line "everything happens for a reason." Seems contradictory to me.

 

"The good lord giveth and the good lord taketh away, the good lord is an indian giver." -?