Will somebody please slap kofi annan?

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Courtesy of the AP:

 

 

MADRID, Spain - United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan, in his harshest condemnation of Israel to date, said Wednesday he was "appalled" by the dire humanitarian situation caused by the Israeli offensive against Palestinians.

 

He said Israel's hard-hunted crackdown was causing a "mounting humanitarian and human rights crisis" in Palestinian areas.

 

Annan said this that was unacceptable from a country "that lays claim to democracy."

 

"I am, frankly, appalled by humanitarian situation, "Annan said after discussing the violence in the Middle East with U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov, EU foreign and security chief Javier Solana and Spanish Foreign Minister Josep Pique.

 

He said Israel's assault was causing "enormous suffering for the innocent civilian population caught up in the hostilities" in the West Bank and Gaza strip.

 

Annan said the international community demand Israel to "honor its obligations under international humanitarian law to protect civilians" and for its troops to stop damaging and destroying personal property.

 

Annan made the comments on a personal level after a meeting at which the European Union, Russia, the United States and the United Nations jointly urged Israel and the Palestinians to halt their "senseless confrontation" saying it caused a humanitarian crisis and heightening regional tensions in the Middle East.

 

In a joint statement, they urged Israel to immediately withdraw its forces and Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat to denounce and dismantle terrorism networks in the Palestinian camp.

 

Both sides were urged to work toward a negotiated solution to the conflict.

 

The joint communique was far more balanced than Annan was in his personal remarks in which he clearly blamed Israel for human rights violations.

 

 

Ummm, he's going to criticize Israel---but barely utter one word about the Palestinians who friggin' TARGET civilians?

 

Maybe we should bail out of the UN before it becomes a bigger laughingstock than it already is.

 

Lord knows its usefulness is pretty well non-existent.

                 -=Mike

 

...Who's shocked how few people realize that Israel could just carpet bomb Palestine, but is showing restraint in not doing so. If the tables were reversed, would the Palestinians show similar restraint?

[Guest muzanisa]

So you're saying that all of the 100 or so Palestinians that have been killed by Tanks and armed soldiers illegally occupying land were terrorists?

What is the point exactly of the Israeli offensive? How does rolling tanks into towns and shelling individuals fight terrorism?

Should Spain send tanks into the Basque region and begin Shelling, should Britain have carpet bombed the Republican area of Belfast in the hope of getting the IRA to decommision their arms?

You seem incapable of accepting that Israel could be in the wrong on anything. There are very bad abuses of human rights going on in the occupied areas. If you read in depth on the subject in any newspaper they should report that. if they don't change your newspaper.

You also state that Israel is being restrained in a way that Palestinians never could. What do you base that on? Are Muslims somehow less rational than Jews? Do you know any Muslims? Most are perfectly reasonable people no different from Christians Jews or any other person.If Israel started carpet bombing Palestinians then the whole Arab world would more than likely feel obliged to help them out and attack Israel meaning horrendous loss of life and the possibilty of the conflict escalting into a World War.

If they did it without opposistion then that would be genocide or to put it another way a holocaust.

There's always the argument that the Palestinians turned down the peace plan put forward by Barak but if they had accepted then they would be fenced in on all sides by Israeli soldiers ans settlers and would have lost the majority of their agricultural land in exchange for desert and toxic waste dumps? It was a bullshit offer that Clinton wanted to push through as a legacy of his Presidency.

Bush under pressure told Israel to withdraw and Sharon who seems more interested in his image played and is still playing Political Brinksmanship that yesterday saw 13 Israeli soldiers die.

If any other Country in the region behaved the way Israel has behaved they would have been sanctioned and possibly had military measures taken against them a long time ago.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Maybe we should bail out of the UN before it becomes a bigger laughingstock than it already is.

Who's we?? do you mean america??? aren't they saying basically the same things he is.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Kofi Annan went to Macalster College so what he said shouldn't be so suprising.

 

Alot of the Muslims in the area aren't rational. What people don't seem to understand is a Palestinian state isn't even what these people want more than anything it's the destruction of the state of Isreal.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

So you're saying that all of the 100 or so Palestinians that have been killed by Tanks and armed soldiers illegally occupying land were terrorists?>>>

 

 

Why is Israel THERE in the first place?

 

Because Palestinians attacked Israel with suicide bombers.

 

No suicide bombers = no Israeli occupation.

 

 

<<<hat is the point exactly of the Israeli offensive? How does rolling tanks into towns and shelling individuals fight terrorism?>>>

 

 

Does sitting back doing nothing do anything to combat it? It seems to not be the case.

 

 

<<<Should Spain send tanks into the Basque region and begin Shelling, should Britain have carpet bombed the Republican area of Belfast in the hope of getting the IRA to decommision their arms?>>>

 

 

No---but again, if the Palestinians had the massive military advantage that Israel presently has, would they show the same restraint?

 

Heck, if I were Sharon, I would carpet bomb them. The only reason not to is to avoid the criticism of the int'l community---but since they receive the criticism regardless (while the PLO is not nearly as criticized), so why worry about it further?

 

Until the rest of the world treats BOTH sides equally---meaning they lace into Arafat as often and with as much vitriol as they do with Israel---then this is a joke.

 

 

<<<You seem incapable of accepting that Israel could be in the wrong on anything.>>>

 

 

No, I'm not. I just recognize that Israel was attacked repeatedly and had that not happened, none of this would have happened. I recognize that Barak was willing to give Arafat a sweetheart deal and Arafat walked away from the table, refusing to sign it. I recognize that the world seems to hold Israel to a vastly different standard than they hold Arafat to.

 

 

<<<There are very bad abuses of human rights going on in the occupied areas. If you read in depth on the subject in any newspaper they should report that. if they don't change your newspaper.>>>

 

 

I'm fully aware that Israel hasn't been good here---but it was provoked into all of this. Had the suicide bombers not been unleashed, Israel would not have done a thing to Palestine. When there were no suicide bombings, Israel didn't attack Palestine---and unlike Palestine, Israel doesn't specifically target civilians.

 

 

<<<You also state that Israel is being restrained in a way that Palestinians never could. What do you base that on? Are Muslims somehow less rational than Jews?>>>

 

 

In that part of the world, you can hardly argue that Israel is less rational than ANYBODY in that God-forsaken hellhole.

 

Until the Muslim world ceases to issue death sentences for people criticizing their religion, then no, I would not refer to the Muslim church as being anything resembling rational.

 

 

<<<Do you know any Muslims?>>>

 

 

Yup.

 

 

<<<Most are perfectly reasonable people no different from Christians Jews or any other person.>>>

 

 

True---but a significant population of Muslims are FAR more irrational than the most hard-lined Christian.

 

 

<<<If Israel started carpet bombing Palestinians then the whole Arab world would more than likely feel obliged to help them out and attack Israel meaning horrendous loss of life and the possibilty of the conflict escalting into a World War. >>>

 

 

Yes, it might lead to that. However, at what point should Israel finally take off its shackles and make their stand? At what point do you finally say that what they have suffered is enough.

 

It's eerily similar to our presence in Vietnam---and just like then, a lot of people seem to focus upon the atrocities that the U.S committed while completely ignoring the atrocities committed by the other side.

 

 

<<<If they did it without opposistion then that would be genocide or to put it another way a holocaust. >>>

 

 

Except that Israel would not hunt down Muslims. Israel, in my opinion, wants peace. They hate the never-ending state of war that they have been stuck in since the formation of their country in 1948.

 

 

<<<There's always the argument that the Palestinians turned down the peace plan put forward by Barak but if they had accepted then they would be fenced in on all sides by Israeli soldiers ans settlers and would have lost the majority of their agricultural land in exchange for desert and toxic waste dumps? It was a bullshit offer that Clinton wanted to push through as a legacy of his Presidency.>>>

 

 

It was the best deal any country has ever received and Arafat wouldn't even NEGOTIATE. He just walked away.

 

Then, Israel attempts to sit down and have peace talks---and Arafat unleashes suicide bombers.

 

How in the world anybody can paint Yassir as a good guy here is mind-boggling.

 

 

<<<Bush under pressure told Israel to withdraw and Sharon who seems more interested in his image played and is still playing Political Brinksmanship that yesterday saw 13 Israeli soldiers die.>>>

 

 

Sharon has his own country to wory about. Why on Earth should he stop when his people are still being attacked?

 

Why isn't Arafat getting heat for not calling off the dogs? If he agreed to call off the suicide bombers and sit down to talk, things would be worlds better.

 

But, somehow, it's Israel's responsibility here?

 

I think not.

 

 

<<<If any other Country in the region behaved the way Israel has behaved they would have been sanctioned and possibly had military measures taken against them a long time ago. >>>

 

 

Palestine hasn't lost a cent from us in spite of their obvious terroristic acts against Israel since the launch of the intifada.

                           -=Mike

 

...Who is amazed at the power of spin

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Maybe we should bail out of the UN before it becomes a bigger laughingstock than it already is.

 

Who's we?? do you mean america??? aren't they saying basically the same things he is. >>>

 

 

Who's "they"? America? Not quite.

 

If the U.N won't expect Arafat to live by the same standards they expect Israel to live by, then the entire body is run by illiterate monkeys.

                     -=Mike

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Kofi Annan went to Macalster College so what he said shouldn't be so suprising.

 

Alot of the Muslims in the area aren't rational. What people don't seem to understand is a Palestinian state isn't even what these people want more than anything it's the destruction of the state of Isreal. >>>

 

 

That's always been my point.

 

Let's say that Israel gives Arafat everything he wants.

 

Will Israel be ANY better off afterwards?

                -=Mike

[Guest Some Guy]

"Let's say that Israel gives Arafat everything he wants.

 

Will Israel be ANY better off afterwards?"

               

No, they'll be non-existant.  Arafat wants all of the displaced Palenstinians to be allowed back into Israel, which would create a Palestinian MAJORITY in Israel.  This is what the main sticking point was on the treaty that Arafat walked away from, with out even giving a counterproposal.  Actually he did give a counter proposal, he bassically said, "Fuck you, you Jew bastards", when he let all of the terrorists out of jail and declared an Intifada.  And Isreal is still the bad guy?  I don't get it.

 

I am fully aware that Israel was founded by Mimakum(sp?) Bagin and other Jews from the area terrorizing the British until they gave in and formed Israel.  And until 4-5 years ago I was neutral, but after Arafat walked when Israel wanted to talk, the Palesinians lost me.  

 

We should leave the UN IMO.  We pay 1/3 of the budget and don't get nearly 1/3 of the benifits in return.  As far as I can see the UN is full of people who see American's money and are salivating at the thought of re-distributing it.  Seems like a bad deal for us to me.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

"Let's say that Israel gives Arafat everything he wants.

 

Will Israel be ANY better off afterwards?"

             

<<<No, they'll be non-existant.  Arafat wants all of the displaced Palenstinians to be allowed back into Israel, which would create a Palestinian MAJORITY in Israel.  This is what the main sticking point was on the treaty that Arafat walked away from, with out even giving a counterproposal.  Actually he did give a counter proposal, he bassically said, "Fuck you, you Jew bastards", when he let all of the terrorists out of jail and declared an Intifada.  And Isreal is still the bad guy?  I don't get it.>>>

 

 

Nor do I. Israel isn't being "nice" here---but it's not like they initiated any of this.

 

 

<<<I am fully aware that Israel was founded by Mimakum(sp?) Bagin and other Jews from the area terrorizing the British until they gave in and formed Israel.  And until 4-5 years ago I was neutral, but after Arafat walked when Israel wanted to talk, the Palesinians lost me.  >>>

 

 

I was always pro-Israel. I'm just shocked that Kuwait will support Arafat after he supported Hussein when he invaded Kuwait in 1990.

 

 

<<<We should leave the UN IMO.  We pay 1/3 of the budget and don't get nearly 1/3 of the benifits in return.  As far as I can see the UN is full of people who see American's money and are salivating at the thought of re-distributing it.  Seems like a bad deal for us to me. >>>

 

 

The U.N has been slapping us in the face for a while now.

 

We got kicked off of the Human Rights Council. WTF?

 

There are NO Americans heading ANY UN agencies after this year? WTF?

 

At a certain point, we need to realize that the U.N doesn't actually do anything beneficial for the world and that its continued existence is pointless.

              -=Mike

[Guest muzanisa]

The Barak deal offered was not sweet. The power of spin would seem to be working in favour of Barak and Clinton there it was an awful deal for the Palestinians that Clinton was desperate to push through before leaving office. I outlined why i think it wasn't in my first post. Why do you think it was?

If the States pulled out of the UN then any ability the UN has as a force for good would be totally neutered. If you want an example look at the League of Nations between the First and Second World Wars.

The United States is asking Sharon to pull out and they aren't doing it, Lebanon is getting involved and the situation is getting worse. If the States is on the same page as the UN why should they leave the UN. Unless I missed Bush winking when he was telling Israel to stop their occupation of those terrortories and pull out.

If it hadn't been for US intervention then Britain would have carried out without restrictions a shoot to kill policy on the IRA and killed their leaders. If that had happened there might have been five years maximum of peace and then a new generation of terrorist would have stepped up their campaigns. Because the US was there to get both sides to talk to each other there looks like there might be a lasting peace in that region.

Hundreds of innocent civilians were killed in British cities by bombs in Pubs, Outside shops, in office buildings, public parks, train stations and anywhere where they would kill, maim and strike terror into people. I don't recall there being the big uproar from US citizens when this was going on, what makes Israel a special case that can respond to terrorism by ethnic cleansing?

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

The US government LOVES Kofi Annan. He is a total yes man who is absolutely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Besides, the only thing the US cares about is the UN Security Council and they essentially run that since NATO controls its agenda for the most part.

[Guest]

I just finished reading transcripts of two speeches on the Israel/Palestine issue. It's a sad day when Binyamin Netanyahu makes more sense than the Secretary-General of the United Nations.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

<<<The Barak deal offered was not sweet.>>>

 

 

Compared to ANYTHING they'd been offered before or since, it was generous to a fault.

 

 

<<<The power of spin would seem to be working in favour of Barak and Clinton there it was an awful deal for the Palestinians that Clinton was desperate to push through before leaving office. I outlined why i think it wasn't in my first post. Why do you think it was?>>>

 

 

Palestine was given most of the land it wanted and they'd have been granted autonomy in a reasonable time frame.

 

It was supposed to be a NEGOTIATION and Israel's offer was shockingly generous.

 

 

<<<If the States pulled out of the UN then any ability the UN has as a force for good would be totally neutered.>>>

 

 

At this point, it's not our concern. The U.N has become overwhelmingly left-wing and when you consider how many of the countrieswho are a part of it are downright deplorable when it comes to liberties and respect for human rights, then it becomes apparent that the usefulness of the U.N ended long ago.

 

 

<<<If you want an example look at the League of Nations between the First and Second World Wars.>>>

 

 

The League was flawed from the get-go (all votes had to be unanimous (sp)?) and Wilson's treatment of the Republicans (not even allowing them any say on the treaty) killed it.

 

 

<<<The United States is asking Sharon to pull out and they aren't doing it, Lebanon is getting involved and the situation is getting worse. If the States is on the same page as the UN why should they leave the UN. Unless I missed Bush winking when he was telling Israel to stop their occupation of those terrortories and pull out.>>>

 

 

The U.N is placing the blame almost solely upon Israel when the blame, rightly, belongs to Arafat and the PLO.

 

 

<<<If it hadn't been for US intervention then Britain would have carried out without restrictions a shoot to kill policy on the IRA and killed their leaders. If that had happened there might have been five years maximum of peace and then a new generation of terrorist would have stepped up their campaigns. Because the US was there to get both sides to talk to each other there looks like there might be a lasting peace in that region.>>>

 

 

And we'd have done that WITHOUT the U.N. We like stability.

 

 

<<<Hundreds of innocent civilians were killed in British cities by bombs in Pubs, Outside shops, in office buildings, public parks, train stations and anywhere where they would kill, maim and strike terror into people. I don't recall there being the big uproar from US citizens when this was going on, what makes Israel a special case that can respond to terrorism by ethnic cleansing?>>>

 

 

They're simply using more gentle tactics to put down militants opposed to them than any other country in that region would use.

                                 -=Mike