Was it a work or shoot?

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

After seeing some old NWO footage, my mind started wandering. Hogan was talking about how he wanted Elizabeth and got her, then threw her away like a peice of trash. These statements directed towards Savage made me think of their Wrestlemania 5 feud. During the feud, Savage produced footage in which Elizabeth was sitting on top of both his and Hogan's shoulders. Hogan reached up and palmed her ass while she was up there. The commentators tried to pass it off as doctored footage, but we all know there wasn't anything doctored about it. Hogan grabbed her ass. I remember Jesse Ventura reffering to him as Lust Hogan throughout the feud, but I have been wondering if it was a work (someone told him grab her ass) or if it was a shoot (Lust Hogan's hormones getting the best of him). The more I think about it, the more I lean towards it being a work. I wanted to know what you guys thought about it.

[Guest Tony149]

I would think they had Hogan grab her ass so they could do the "doctored footage" angle. I think Savage really belive Hogan lusted over Liz. A few years back Hogan wanted to have Torrie Wilson as his manager. Many felt just to stir things him with her & Kidman. Billy Kidman was pissed about that.

[Guest Haku]

I agree with Tony but I bet Hogan enjoyed that experience.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

I actually meant to say that I  felt like it was a shoot because it was rather risque for the time. I don't know if people would be getting put into angles that would involve feeling people up, let alone Hogan feeling people up. He was supposed to be the role model of the WWF. I think the angle could have been a cover up.

[Guest RetroRob215]

I also agree with Tony.  The WWF probably wanted to give Savage another reason to hate Hogan in the angle.  Savage probably figured Hogan enjoyed touching Liz's ass and got pissed about it.

[Guest CanadianChris]

Turns out he *was* Lust Hogan in the end, too...didn't Savage blame him for his marriage ending?

 

Jess was great at WrestleMania V, too...

 

Jesse: "Lust Hogan."

Gorilla: "Hulk is his name, Jess."

Jesse: "Lust!"

[Guest Tony149]

I belive Savage did blame Hulk for the marriage ending. I think Savage also punched Hogan the day before WrestleMania 9 over something about Liz.

[Guest Kinetic]

Well, I don't know about Hogan but when I grabbed Elizabeth's ass it was completely genuine.

[Guest ratboy]

and heartfelt, too.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

Why would they have Hogan grab Elizabeth's ass if he was supposed to be a face? Anybody would have sympathized with Savage if they were in his shoes. As far as doctored evidence, how would they have footage of Hogan palming someones ass to use in the first place? Whose ass was he supposed to have palmed? That was the first time I doubted Hogan.

[Guest dreamer420]

Hogan probably grabbed her ass but it was not intentional I bet.

[Guest Tony149]

Savage was probably pissed when he saw Hogan grab Liz's ass. It was either done for an angle or just a accident that they used for a angle.

[Guest teke184]

Hogan might have done it just to f*ck with Savage.  There are MANY stories floating around about how Savage wouldn't let Liz talk to anyone and would sometimes lock her up in a room before he went to wrestle because of his paranoid nature.  

 

Considering that she was a ring rat when he met her, he may have been justified in his fears, but definately not justified in his actions.

[Guest Tony149]

I've heard the stories of Savage locking up Liz in a room. He went a little to far there. I didn't know Liz was a ring rat. I've always thought something went on between Hogan & Liz.

[Guest RhynoesRUs]

It wasn't doctored footage exactly, but when they showed it in real time his hand was only on her ass for a split second because she was rocking back on Savage's shoulder.  I don't know if he was told to do it for the story or if it was just something that happened and they used it, but whatever problems he and Savage had it didn't look like enough of a "grab" to contribute to it.

[Guest The Great Wesuke]

I believe it was SummerSlam88... or perhaps it was the end of WM IV, not sure.

 

Anyhoo... you guys are analyzing it way too much. They had her on their shoulders and she started to slip, Hogan put up his hand to balance her and it just happened to land on her ass. I was watching this not long ago and I got a chuckle out of it. It was pretty clear that it wasn't intentional.  Vince and his gang of writers just went through all the footage and looked for shit like this. It was a well done angle regardless.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"A few years back Hogan wanted to have Torrie Wilson as his manager. Many felt just to stir things him with her & Kidman. Billy Kidman was pissed about that."

 

Incorrect.  Torrie Wilson was brought in to be an NWO girl (whether it was Hogan's valet or Nash's etc).......she did not start dating Kidman for months after that.

 

Tim

[Guest Tony149]

I read that Hogan wanted Torrie as his manager in 2000.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

I think it's hilarious if Hogan was indeed trying to keep her from slipping and they played it up. That seems like a Russo thing to do.

[Guest godofpork]

I always had the impression that Hogan touching her ass was intenentional. In fact, I can't believe I'm debating this. Yes, it was definitely intentional. They knew all along that they were going to do the breakup angle so thay planted the seeds early. Liz was sitting on Savage's shoulder celebrating after a TV match and Hogan reached up to "support" her. It was extremely innocent but completely planned. I think Hogan even gave some exagerated hand gestures to drive home the point, like giving her a "big brother" pat on the back afterward or something similar. The idea that the "ass grab" was a shoot... I don't know, man. Do you really think that Hogan just couldn't help himself and had to legitimately cop a feel on national television with Savage standing right next to him? I mean, really, I don't want to be rude at all, I really don't, but... "Ass Grab: Work Or Shoot?" is just a little bit silly. The whole thing was an angle. Savage's character had always been that of the jealous, possessive boyfriend (how much of that aspect was also true in real life, I don't know, but it was definitely the character he played and was used for lots of angles prior to this) and when they had Savage turn on Hogan (as was the plan from day one) they used that. Savage started going crazy and acting jealous of Hogan for all sorts of things (remember, I'm talking angle here) and "dug up" this footage to "prove" that Hogan was trying to steal his woman. That footage only existed so that Savage's character could "find" it later and use it against Hogan. This entire year-long storyline was very meticulously planned. The babyface announcers at first played it up as something totally innocent and drove home that Savage was overreacting. Later the babyfaces went even more extreme and started with the overblown "doctored footage" nonsense. Jesse always played it up that Hogan really meant to grab her ass but Jesse was a heel announcer and we were NEVER supposed to believe anything he said.

   Now, this was all an angle. EVERYTHING we saw on TV was an angle. Whether anything similar happened in real life after the angle played out on TV... well, that's entirely possible. I can think of at least two cases off the top of my head where wrestlers "stole" other wrestlers' wives in angles and then ended up stealing them in real life too. Austin did it. Benoit did it. Wrestlers very often allow angles and feuds to intrude into their real lives, but more often than not, the entire thing starts off as an angle that the wrestlers just take too seriously. During the course of Bret Hart's feud with Shawn Michaels, in which they were supposed to hate each other, the two worked so closely together that they started to hate each other for real. If Hoagan and Liz had to work with each other a lot to do the angle, it's very possible that they did end up starting someting. It's also possible, however, that they DIDN'T. To my knowlege there's no proof either way. The only thing we know for sure is what we saw on television and that, every single bit of it, was fake. No question.

  Could real life have mirrored the angle exactly, in that Hogan and Liz really were just friends, and Savage was irratinoally jealous? Again, maybe. Then again maybe not. Savage and Liz obviously did have some real life problems in their marriage because they eventually got  divorced. How much Hogan had to do with that is anybody's guess and it's just that: a guess. You shouldn't believe everything you hear. I had heard a while back that Hogan and Savage at one time were pretty good friends and their wives hung out together as well. When Savage and Liz started having problems (whatever they were, we don't know), Liz would sometimes go spend the night at the house of Hogan and his wife. When Savage would call looking for her, Hogan would say she wasn't there. This supposedly led to very bad blood between Savage and Hogan, not because of a suspected affair, but because Hogan was "interfering" in Savage's marriage. Is this rumor true? I don't know. It's just one more contradictory story.

   Savage, out of character, announced his real life seperation and eventual divorce from Elizabeth in WWF Magazine in late 1992, during a time period in which Hogan was not with the WWF. I seem to remember Savage around '92 or '93, during one of Hogan's absences, saying in commentary something about Hogan going around talking like he was "God on Earth" or something similar and basically called him a liar and a hippocrite on national television even though they were both babyfaces at the time and it wasn't building to any kind of angle at all. Hogan wasn't even officially with the company at the time, he (Hogan) was just shooting his mouth of in the press while simultaneously talking to Vince about a comeback. When he did come back in early '93 he made some public appearances and put over Savage talking about how he and Savage were "role models" and how much it meant to them to be heroes. The night befor Hogan's first official match back at Wrestlemania IX in March or April of '93, Hogan did receive a brutal looking eye injury. It was clearly visible on the PPV the next day and Hogan, in character, tried to imply that his opponents for the match (Ted Dibiase and IRS) had hired someone to attack him. This was obviously a last-minute work intended to explain a very real eye injury to the marks. Hogan later said out of character that it was a jet ski accident. Recently I heard the rumor that Savage had punched him. What's the truth? Who knows?

  As for rumors of Savage locking Elizabeth in a room... Well, it could be true, I guess, but let's remember that Kayfabe was very closely protected in those days and that those types of stories very well could have gotten out just for the express purpose of supporting his "abusive boyfriend" gimmick. Wrestlers used to spread bad rumors about each other and themselves if it supported their characters. Remember, it was a different time.

   Or Savage is just nuts.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

I think the proper route would have been to say that Hogan was trying to give her support and grabbed her ass by accident. I haven't seen the footage in a while, but for some reason, I remember Hogan grabbing that ass, not trying to keep her from falling. Maybe the slow motion added to this, since it probably would have been easier to assess in real life speed.