2003 Wrestling Observer Newsletter Award

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

The Observer being biased to puro comes as a shock to you people?

Maybe they're "biased" because, you know, it's better than WWE?

 

 

Kenta Kobashi > any WWE wrestler ever.

So you admit your wet-dream boyfriend Chris Benoit is worse than him?

[Guest krazykat72]

I wouldn't call Dave biased for puro, in fact, he defends more WWE stuff than lots of people out there. He's also seen more wrestling than everybody and is a pretty good judge of what's good and what isn't. Todd Martin, while I don't agree with a lot of what he says is entitled to his opinions on things.

 

My MOTY is KENTA and Marafuji vs. Kanemura & Hashi and I'd easily vote NOAH or Pride Promotion of the Year even though I see far more of the WWE than both of them. NJ this year has been very spotty, and I can see Todd's reasoning for voting them (they seem, like WWE to make many stupid decisions) because while WJ and All Japan may be worse, their decisions don't have the range and impact of NJ's.

 

-Paul Jacobi-

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

AND despite what you say about his workrate, Ray, Kobashi has never made real money compared to his contemporaries, so I'd say the Rock, Hogan, and Austin are all better than he is since they can draw more then flies and pictures.

[Slayer 0]

The Observer being biased to puro comes as a shock to you people?

Maybe they're "biased" because, you know, it's better than WWE?

I'm not just referring to within the last year (where you could make good argument, of course), or even the last few years (where it starts getting muddled, because the WWF/E still put out a decent product, even compared to puro)

 

Here you can look the history of The Observer's awards (as well as other major wrestling media awards)

[Guest Ray]

The Observer being biased to puro comes as a shock to you people?

Maybe they're "biased" because, you know, it's better than WWE?

 

 

Kenta Kobashi > any WWE wrestler ever.

Backlund > Kobashi

Based on...?

 

So you admit your wet-dream boyfriend Chris Benoit is worse than him?

Not "worse"....just "not better than."

 

AND despite what you say about his workrate, Ray, Kobashi has never made real money compared to his contemporaries, so I'd say the Rock, Hogan, and Austin are all better than he is since they can draw more then flies and pictures.

I was discussing who the better wrestler was, so drawing money means nothing.

 

It's laughable to think Hogan or Rock are better wrestlers than Kenta Kobashi.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Even as a Hogan fan, I can't say he's better than most wrestlers. But he has charisma and (had) drawing power. Now he just needs to retire.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

The Observer being biased to puro comes as a shock to you people?

Maybe they're "biased" because, you know, it's better than WWE?

 

 

Kenta Kobashi > any WWE wrestler ever.

Backlund > Kobashi

Based on...?

 

So you admit your wet-dream boyfriend Chris Benoit is worse than him?

Not "worse"....just "not better than."

 

AND despite what you say about his workrate, Ray, Kobashi has never made real money compared to his contemporaries, so I'd say the Rock, Hogan, and Austin are all better than he is since they can draw more then flies and pictures.

I was discussing who the better wrestler was, so drawing money means nothing.

 

It's laughable to think Hogan or Rock are better wrestlers than Kenta Kobashi.

1. Based on his earliest title runs in which he proved himself a far better scientific wrestler then Kobashi ever was.

 

3. Bullshit, Ray. You just put Names around a greater than sign you didn't specify you just compared names. I'd rather have one Hogan or Rock then A HUNDRED Kobashis. Great wrestlers are rare.

 

Phenoms are one-in-a-million.

 

Rock > Kobashi. Period.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I consider The Rock to be one charasmatic motherfucker but Kobashi eats him up and shits him out in the charisma dept. Ditto for any and all in-ring work. I think the only thing that Rock has Kobashi beat on is the mic.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

If anything, Dave and all his puppets are biased towards MMA. If Bob Sapp was in the WWE, do you think he would get all the love that they give him? No, they'd be complaining about how he only gets a push because he's a big hoss and so on.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I consider The Rock to be one charasmatic motherfucker but Kobashi eats him up and shits him out in the charisma dept. Ditto for any and all in-ring work. I think the only thing that Rock has Kobashi beat on is the mic.

Kobashi's charisma is there, no doubt. But he's never drawn and his charisma seems a lot bigger compared to stoic guys like Kawada and Misawa. Rock has to compete with guys like Austin and Mankind. Kobashi doesn't have the kind of charisma The Rock does.

[Guest Ray]

I'm not just referring to within the last year (where you could make good argument, of course), or even the last few years (where it starts getting muddled, because the WWF/E still put out a decent product, even compared to puro)

 

Here you can look the history of The Observer's awards (as well as other major wrestling media awards)

Just looking at the WON MOTY. Only 11 out of 23 are from Japan.

 

1. Based on his earliest title runs in which he proved himself a far better scientific wrestler then Kobashi ever was.

As if being "scientific" makes one a better wrestler?

 

3. Bullshit, Ray. You just put Names around a greater than sign you didn't specify you just compared names.

Well, no one asked...

 

I've seen Kobashi and Backlund wrestle Stan Hansen. Kobashi had the far better match. That's just one quick example.

 

I certainly don't see any major reason why Backlund > Kenta.

 

I'd rather have one Hogan or Rock then A HUNDRED Kobashis.

I really don't care what you would rather "have." Kobashi is easily a better wrestler, which is the entire point....

 

Kobashi doesn't have the kind of charisma The Rock does.

As if "charisma" makes one a better wrestler?

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I'd like to see Kobashi carry Billy Graham to the matches Backlund did. He couldn't. Backlund's the total package, Kobashi isn't as good as he was, and he never will be. Sorry, Ray one Stan Hansen match isn't enough Backlund's FAR BETTER in the ring then Kobashi. AND he was working with early 80's offense instead of HEADROP O RAMA.

 

And he didn't bitch like a woman when guys kicked out of his moves like kobashi does.

 

It doesn't matter how the better pure wrestler is, you said Kobashi > Anybody in the WWE. You never said in the ring, ray. The Rock is the better overall performer. That is why he draws money, and Kobashi can not.

[Slayer 0]

I'm not just referring to within the last year (where you could make good argument, of course), or even the last few years (where it starts getting muddled, because the WWF/E still put out a decent product, even compared to puro)

 

Here you can look the history of The Observer's awards (as well as other major wrestling media awards)

Just looking at the WON MOTY. Only 11 out of 23 are from Japan.

Admittedly the bias didn't kick in until the early 90's or so

 

Check out some of the other categories post-1990 too (tag team, match, and promotion specifically)

[Guest krazykat72]

What bias?

 

In the 90's, from about AJPW & NJPW were far better than their American counterparts. That doesn't mean people are biased for thinking so, it means they saw 2 different products and felt one was better than the other. Misawa/Kobashi/Kawada and their matches for the most part smoke everything else done in the U.S. during that era.(save some high end Hart, Michaels and Austin work) They were drawing better than WWF and WCW for most of the decade as well. NJPW was the most succesful promotion in the world until about '97-98 when WWF and WCW caught fire, and they had some of the best junior matches ever in the early-mid 90's. Why do people think the Observer is biased? Watch the matches yourself and tell me what's better. I've loved American wrestling for a long time, and still do, (though that gets questioned all the time now), but I'm not about to put the blinders on about it, when I feel there's a markedly better product out there.

 

And as for the Rock and Backlund/ Kobashi debate, are you serious Zsasz?

Kobashi has drawn just fine. He's doing a good job for NOAH now, and he was an integral factor in AJPW's success in the 90's. To say he didn't draw is doing him injustice. Judging charisma, I find him far more charismatic in the ring than Rock, whereas Rock's charisma comes out in interviews, which is something I can't judge Kenta on. His peak years of '93-96ish are hard for anyone to top. I mean seriously, he's dragged good matches out of slugs on the level of Billy Graham this year, like the Bison Smith and Honda roughly 7-8 years after his prime not to menton all the great matches he's had prior.

 

-Paul Jacobi-

Edited December 22, 2003 by krazykat72

[Guest Doyo]

Satoshi KOJIMA ranks #3 in Charisma to him?!

 

Not to stereotype, but can he speak english thats not broken like Funaki.

Only people that speak english can have charisma?

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Satoshi KOJIMA ranks #3 in Charisma to him?!

 

Not to stereotype, but can he speak english thats not broken like Funaki.

Only people that speak english can have charisma?

Talking or Wrestling?

[Guest Doyo]

either

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Well, since he doesn't have the best english, I can't say he's enjoyable, unless he cuts killer promos in japanese.

 

In ring, I think he's pretty good, but hes not that great.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

If anything, Dave and all his puppets are biased towards MMA. If Bob Sapp was in the WWE, do you think he would get all the love that they give him? No, they'd be complaining about how he only gets a push because he's a big hoss and so on.

 

The "Bob Sapp Love" comes from his relative importance to the business he is in. When Bob Sapp is on a show, that shows numbers - attendance wise, ratings wise, buyrates wise - shoots up like no_other_performer in wrestling or MMA today. They are forecasting HUGE numbers for the Sapp/Akebono fight New Years Eve that will put it above everything before it. Bob Sapp was on the cover of Time Asia, he was featured on Jay Leno and the Wall Street Journal. His importance in Japan DWARFS anything that anyone in Wrestling has become in the states.

 

Besides, the WWE hasn't _touched_ PRIDE this year. In anything.

[Guest Doyo]

for interviews, charisma has more to do with the way one comes across when

they are speaking than with the actual words they are saying. Macho Man can

look into the camera and give one little "oh yeahh!" and even a person that

couldn't understand him would recognize he has charisma. Just by looking at the

photos below you can realize that Bob Sapp has charisma, even if you can't hear him

speak:

 

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Can't argue that. Bob Sapp looks hilarious in those pictures.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Fuck it.

 

*unleashes the beast*

 

SAPP TIME!

 

Sapp owned on Leno too. Should have had 2 segments - the crowd loved him.