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Dusty Rhodes wants credit for Flair DVD

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From the Wrestling Observer website:

 

http://www.liveaudiowrestling.com/wo/news/...lt.asp?aID=9234

 

Dusty Rhodes interview

 

 

 

by Alan Wojcik

 

Please credit Alan J. Wojcik of http://alanwojcik.com when using thank you.

 

Not much needs to be said except this is Alan Wojcik’s interview with “the American Dream” Dusty Rhodes conducted via telephone.

 

 

 

Alan Wojcik: Many of today’s fans might not remember that you began your career as a villain/heel with “Dirty” Dick Murdoch in the team known as the “Texas Outlaws.”

 

 

 

Dusty Rhodes: I think it’s important we note that heels as well as babyfaces are terms that came about from the internet and people who thought they know everything, present company excluded. I prefer the good guys/bad guys terminology. I thought it was advantageous to have begun that way. Dick and I are still together even after his death. He was my best friend. For performers in the industry going the route I did makes you a better good guy. You get a better understanding of the people. You are right in saying we were hated, maced, rioted and rocked. I loved every minute of it.

 

 

 

AW: What led you to the Florida territory and for what promotion was it with?

 

 

 

DR: My mentor, who I mention in so many chapters of my book that I am writing, was Eddie Graham. He was the smartest man in the business even to this day. Dick and I were working in Detroit under the Sheik and his booker Jack King. I went in to see them and gave my notice. Back then wrestling was a blueprint of the mafia with all the territories and you never ran in someone else’s turf. It was sacred, chilling and violent at times. I wanted to go on my own and try something different. Dick followed me in the room and gave his notice without knowing what I was going to say. But I told him we had been on the road 300 days and I needed a change. We gave notice, which was four weeks when you had a title. When you didn’t have any titles or TV engagements you g! ave two weeks. Well we had been to Florida in 1970. 1973-74 I became the American Dream under Eddie’s tutelage and the rest is history.

 

 

 

AW: Wrestling historians I consulted for this interview felt your feud with former NWA world champion Jack Brisco turned you into a good guy.

 

 

 

DR: I speak on this match in my book, which is so important in my life. The book won’t be a cookie cutter style book. I wrestled Jack in Miami Beach with the legendary announcer Frank Freeman there. He announced Ali boxing contests. Angelo Dundee was the Miami promoter for Eddie’s group, Championship Wrestling from Florida. You could feel the rumble in the fans through my interviews. I didn’t change my style that much but they felt like I was one of them. Jack was the golden boy who I learned so much from. I never told hi! m because I didn’t want to make his ego any bigger. He meant lots to me and the industry. That match was a one hour match and around the fifty minute mark, the crowd changed a little bit. I hit him with the big elbow and went for the pin. Well the referee got to two and said to break it. I thought I won the title. The fans were hitting the ring with deafening boos. I turned to see Jack’s leg on the bottom rope. That was all that happened and it was that easy. In saving the title the fans turned on him and they were solidly behind me for the rest of the match. After the match Eddie was waiting for me and he said to me, “That’s another lesson about the business, that’s how simple it is”. Pak Song and “Playboy” Gary Hart changed wrestling with our feud. As far as not having to be a body builder and promos became 75% of it. It was the Korean assassin against the American Dream.

 

 

 

AW: During this time period of territories, wrestlers moved freely. The first one I wish to ask you about is former WWWF world champion “Superstar” Billy Graham, who was one of the most hated wrestlers.

 

 

 

DR: We were a match made for all times. He was an unbelievable bad guy with the best body and could talk his ass off. It was when Ali, Gordon Solie and I were hot. Graham had those tye dyed shirts. We sold out all the places we worked including the Garden. In MSG we would see Andy Warhol who became a dear friend, Halston and George Steinbrenner. They came to see the show not like Pete Rose in a chicken suit. New York and Florida belonged to us. Billy was an exciting performer and we have a lifelong friendship.

 

 

 

AW: Another champion you have faced on many occasions was multi-time NWA world champion Harley Race. I found somewhere you wrestled him for the title in MSG?

 

 

 

DR: Actually Harley couldn’t defend the belt in MSG even though Vince McMahon Sr. was on the board of directors of the NWA. Vince Sr. was the godfather of the north as Edie Graham, Sam Mushnick, Jerry Jarrett, Bob Geigel and Jim Crockett were in control of their regions of the country. The Garden is the one place I would wrestle my last match in along with the old Tampa Armory, which we used to call the Garden of the south. Everyone came through Florida to reach their fame. Harley is a top 5 guy I made the most money and was a tough opponent. We did many consecutive one hour draws for Crockett sometimes six in a week including two matches on Sunday. Harley was the baddest SOB walking during that time. Neither! of us took time off saying I got a hang nail and need six months off while making nine million.

 

 

 

AW: Two of you three NWA World title reigns came courtesy of Mr. Race. What went through your body when you won the title in Tampa?

 

 

 

DR: It was such a rush as a performer and entertainer. You need charisma to succeed no matter what the field, football, baseball or basketball. We know pro wrestling is entertainment but with athletes like Wahoo McDaniel or Dick Murdoch you had great athletes who never wore the NWA World title, the emotions become full blown shoot. I remember looking across the room in my hotel that night. My body trembled looking in my bag seeing the NWA World title belt, for that second I couldn’t believe I was the NWA World champion. 800 guys across the country and I have the belt. Your peers including Sam Mushnick who was the NWA president at the time had the confidence in me to carry the title.

 

 

 

AW: Former NWA world champion Terry Funk is still a competitor to this day. How much does the Terry of today with the hardcore matches differ from the Terry you wrestled in the 1970’s?

 

 

 

DR: Not at all. I invented the Texas Bullrope match just as his family invented the Texas Death match. Those matches were hardcore before there was hardcore. Hardcore defined by your generation is simple, jump from a balcony into four tables. That’s not hardcore. 45 minute bullrope or death match with about 20-30 falls, one guy can’t hardly stand and is bleeding. Some fans have jumped in since there are no rails around the ring. Flying off stuff is not hardcore. Its great athletes doing great stunts. I cannot do some of this. No way could I be tossed off a cage. I am glad for them. I love the Dudley Boys to death, since Bubba does the flip flop fly. But I tell you that’s got to be painful going through those tables. But back to Terry, he hasn’t changed one bit except he’s older. He is still drawing money, putting people in the! seats. Our rivalry will last until one of us is gone.

 

 

 

AW: Another hated rival is the monster known as Abdullah the Butcher.

 

 

 

DR: He’s the toughest pound for pound fighter. We had the biggest feud in Florida. There is much respect between us.

 

 

 

AW: Have you eaten at his Atlanta based restaurant?

 

 

 

DR: The food is tremendous. He has the best ribs in town and he also has Chinese food to boot. I can’t figure out when the Chinese food is made do the Chinese people come and do the brothers come in to make the ribs? Whoever he’s got it’s the best. I grew up in a black neighborhood and my brothers and Latinos were with us. I was one of two white kids on the football team. They know I’m not being racist when I’m talking about black people cooking great BBQ. Just like white people cook great chicken fried steak. The only thing in his restaurant I am afraid of is him dressed in that white suit looking like a black Sidney Greenstreet eating up all his profits.

 

 

 

AW: During the 80’s you and Kevin Sullivan along with his manager the infamous Abudadein had a tremendous feud. How much did Abudadein bring to Sullivan and how much was Sullivan?

 

 

 

DR: It’s was just Kevin. When they were with Purple Haze Mark Lewin it was crazy. There was an eerie feeling about them. I had seen a group of people get their van burned because of him. They had a cult following. They believed he was the devil. In Orlando at the Eddie Graham Sports Stadium we would draw 5-6,000 people that were a mix of brothers or cowboys. They would attack his fans. I had never seen that before. When was the last time you had a fan try and jump into the ring and attack him? Today of course there are barriers and tons of security. That’s some real hatred there. One night in Jacksonville I had a 115 pound woman pull me ou! t from underneath Pak Song, holding me in her lap screaming at him, don’t hit him again. Those are great times I will never forget.

 

 

 

AW: There is one match between you and Kevin Sullivan the fans remember. Christmas night in Tampa where Santa attacked you and it was revealed it was Jake Roberts.

 

 

 

DR: It was a loser leaves town match. There were seven Santa’s there who were handing out candy and presents. Our match was in a cage. That was the only time I even seen fans want to hang Santa right then and there. Jake handed Kevin a rag of ether. He put me out and I left town for 90 days. We got it on tape showing it was Jake Roberts. They needed a police escort to get him and Kevin out. It was a Kabuki situation going on there.

 

 

 

AW: What led you along with Stan Lane, Lex Luger, Ron Simmons and the New Breed (Chris Champion & Sean Royal) to go up to NWA in Charlotte in late 1986?

 

 

 

DR: Well the NWA was Florida. The sheik was NWA. Luger and the boys came up in 1986. I was with Crockett in 1983 when I created Starrcade. I wasn’t on the show. I look at it with pride. I used to leave Florida when Jim Barnett booked me around the country as his first golden boy. I remember thinking I needed a break and there was lots of money to be made in the Mid-Atlantic territory.

 

 

 

AW: How did you take over the reigns as matchmaker/booker of NWA and were you comfortable doing it?

 

 

 

DR: I was destined to make movies or tell stories as I call it. I was destined to make men lots of money and sell tickets. I did some the greatest television and live events with video making. I wrote the TV and was executive producer. Jerry Jarrett and Eddie Graham were the same way. Eddie groomed me for my destiny. During 1974-1986 I was one of the two most powerful men in the industry along with Vince Jr. I’m not through either. I have one or two more creative ideas left in me, whether it is with TNA or Japan. I’m not going to stop. The story is once Dusty Rhodes gets power he becomes powerful. There aren’t many organizations out there. There is a fear of power and saying we need some help. Instead of hiring guys in the smaller terr! itories let’s get the men that helped create the road. Thy will have to pay me. You look at me and see he created all these things why isn’t he in charge somewhere? It is a struggle with the powers that be. I have my own company Turnbuckle Entertainment which you can read about on www.dustyrhodes.net. I’m entranced and taken with NWATNA. I think it has great legs and with the Carter family putting their money in it. The involvement with me is getting them notoriety. I enjoy it and a home run is being hit.

 

 

 

AW: Thanks to WWE fans can see on the Ultimate Ric Flair DVD set and the Bloodbath: Best of steel cage matches your legendary feud with the Nature Boy. What is it like to wrestle Ric Flair in so many championship matches including the Great American Bash 1985 when you won the NWA World title for the third time?

 

 

 

DR: You can ask Ric what’s it like to be in the ring with Dusty Rhodes. It was a legendary time. You can honestly say this is the Dusty Rhodes three DVD set with all the production I did with the interviews and matches. You think I got a lawsuit against them?? It great the fans can see the Nature Boy. At one time he wanted to go as “Rambling” Ricky Rhodes as my cousin or brother. I told him Rickus you need to be yourself and make your own name and boy did he. There is lots of respect in and out of the ring even tough we have gone different ways. I am glad he’s still making money. I enjoy getting back to the smaller shows and visiting rural America. I am glad the DVD Set is out there. There are many tapes of our stuff out there. I am su! re Vince Jr. will send me my cut real soon.

 

 

 

AW: There have been many different incarnations of the Four Horsemen. But during the mid-1980’s Tully Blanchard, Ric Flair, JJ Dillon along with Arn and Ole Anderson ruled the NWA and attempted on many occasions to end your career. What was it like being around those men and how did it feel to have things going right in the NWA?

 

 

 

DR: We would drive up to Mr. Crockett’s office it looked like a car lot filled with the elite cars. From Porsche, Cadillac’s, BMW’s and Mercedes. You had Magnum TA who was a young stud, destined to the heir to the throne, plus the Horseman and Ric Flair. The Horsemen were the limo riding guys just like Flair would say in his promos. They were tremendous performers in their prime. My favorite group of the Horsemen was Flair, Tully, Arn and Barry Windham with JJ. Ole was an original and JJ was the fifth wheel. It was an unbelievable time and Hollywood couldn’t write a better story.

 

 

 

AW: 1987 was a year with two near fatal car accidents. One involved Magnum TA while the other involved Chris Champion & Sean Royal, the New Breed. For the fans give you feelings on the trio plus anything you know on the current status of Magnum. Many people are seeing him on DVD thanks to the WWE Bloodbath disc with the famous “I Quit Match” with Tully Blanchard from Starrcade 1985.

 

 

 

DR: That was one of the greatest matches that was truly hardcore with no tables and only one chair. Magnum came up on the scene looking like Tom Selleck with such a tremendous ring presence. He had those dark blue eyes. He was the heir to the throne. He and “Hollywood” Hulk Hogan who I call Wood just to warn you, were on par with each other. Magnum could have gone into movies. But when his Porsche hit a telephone pole within 10 feet and paralyzed him. The doctors told me he had a million to one chance to ever feel anything from the neck down and he walked out of the hospital with little assistance. He has power business in North Carolina and he never stopped! working to get back. His story will be told someday. The other two young guys Champion and Royal, they were on the verge of being a great tag team but tragic things happen. Being on the road so much you never know what is coming around the corner.

 

 

 

AW: On July 4, 1987 you entered the ominous Wargames: the Match Beyond double ring/roofed cage. Tell the fans the back story that led to that match on the Great American Bash tour.

 

 

 

DR: Jim Crockett and I got together. I had Starrcade, the Boogie Woogie man Jam with Jimmy Valiant and the Crockett Memorial Cup. Jim wanted four PPV events. On a drive to Spartanburg to do TVI proposed an idea. I had just seen Max Max: Beyond Thunderdome with the big cage. I asked if Bill Kleinbeck our cage and ring designer could put two rings together and create a roofed cage with a door on each end. The night before I had seen a hockey game and remembered a guy being put in the penalty box. I said why not put two teams together where two guys go for five minutes. Then have a coin toss and the winning team gets a 2 on l advantage for two minutes. Then every two minutes we add a team member. Then after everyo! ne is in have the match end with a submission or surrender. It was a big money draw. The original matches were the best. But it was watered down by WCW and Eric Bischoff. I love Eric and respect him but they changed things up too much. Look at that 1st match on tape and listen to the crowd reaction to the cage being lowered. WWE now has one I think called Elimination Chamber. When we got back from TV we designed the cage on paper and the rest is history.

 

 

 

AW: Fans might remember you held the NWA World six man tag team titles with the Road Warriors. Were you a fan of them being turned villain in the late 80’s?

 

 

 

DR: I think with them as bad or good guys it didn’t matter. They had a real manager in Paul Ellering. They changed the way we look at tag teams. Same with the Rock n Roll Express with their speed and quickness. They had the apocalyptic look with the paint and spikes on the shoulder pads. Turning them villain didn’t make them different. Being part of the six man team with them, well I loved it. We lost Hawk recently and I think about it often all the guys that are gone.

 

 

 

AW: Is there truth to the story that you left WCW in the early 90’s it was partially due to Jim Herd wanting you to become a villain?

 

 

 

DR: Yes that is 100% true. Jim Herd was well… I don’t know what he was. He was not a creative man in our industry maybe he was in the pizza business. I always thought he was full of sh#$. Jim Ross used to complain about him like a SOB. I knew what was going on. Herd was running this company that was run by a family that knew the industry. He was running it like something I am not sure how to describe it. My attorney went to see him and there was lots of cash put on the table to make me a bad guy. We turned it down and he couldn’t believe it. I don’t know how he got where he did. He led the ruining of the NWA and only under Jeff and Jerry Jarrett could the NWA be remade and rebuilt. Herd destroyed TBS and WCW. TBS had built it up under our control with Mr. Turner. Even though WWE is a corporation it is run on Sunday morning at the McMahon breakfast table talking about the! ir family owned business. Sure he has brought in people from Princeton and Yale to help them but it is run by a family. WCW was sold into a corporation with so many pieces. Ted used to come down and see the Saturday night show. He made me a star just as I helped make WTBS a national network. Jim Herd ran it and there were nine different guys in to help him with very little wrestling background among them. Herd would come in and say they said you can’t do that. Who in the f$% is they, the guys on the 12th floor of the north tower?? We are driving the Saturday numbers and we were outdrawing baseball. I better cool off or our time will go by fast.

 

 

 

AW: During the late 1980’s Ted DiBiase left Mid Atlantic and joined the WWF as the “Million Dollar Man.” He came with a valet named Virgil. Most people might know your real first name is Virgil. Did you see that as a slap from Vince McMahon?

 

 

 

DR: Virgil Runnels is my real name. That was Vince. We understood each other or I thought we did. We were powerful together and it was his way of showing his power. Piss on me and I piss on you. It was fun but being used like that. It was a show of respect.

 

 

 

AW: How did the WWF locker room differ from the one you left in NWA/WCW?

 

 

 

DR: Not much different. With the WWWF and Vince Sr. it was great; he was the classiest man I have ever been around. I was his star. I ran the biggest company in 1984-85 so I took a year and a half and did what Vince Jr. asked me. Anytime I would say something it was to the wrong person who ran to Vince Jr. and told him everything. They thought I was trying to lead a takeover. I am still opinionated as you can tell. None of this is bitter grapes; it is about how great the industry is today and how much money it has made for me and Dustin.

 

 

 

AW: One question on Dustin, did you have any apprehensions when the WWF turned him into the androgynous character Goldust?

 

 

 

DR: At the time they did it the character was most unique thing since Gorgeous George. It changed his way of thinking and made him lots of money. He was tremendous at it. He wanted to be his own man. I was not shocked. I was glad for everyone involved.

 

 

 

AW: What led you back to WCW in 1991?

 

 

 

DR: Money. I wanted to become back in power. I had some unfinished business there and wanted to bring the product back to the high I had it. I had done the year and a half with Vince Jr. I loved making movies as I called it.

 

 

 

AW: What was your reaction when Hulk Hogan first joined WCW in 1994?

 

 

 

DR: Hogan is such a unique person. He is a movie star and someone I take my hat off to as a business man. Eric had come into power and once he dropped the name Hulk Hogan down it was on. I wanted to kick the crap out of WWF. Eric kept hitting the right buttons with the contracts of Randy Savage and the other WWF guys. They were the key to our success. Hogan tells his own stories.

 

 

 

AW: When Scott Hall and Kevin Nash jumped in late May 1996 and Bischoff launched the New World Order did you think here is the point we take WCW over the WWF?

 

 

 

DR: Let me say for a minute I love Randy Savage he is a dear friend to me. Hogan and Savage being part of the New World Order made it take off. It was their idea to join. It was the four Horsemen but actually it was the fourteen horsemen. They took it to the different level and kicked WWE’s ass. But it wore off and they tried to rehash it instead of creating something new.

 

 

 

AW: Let’s switch gears before you have to go. What’s it like to wrestle “the King of Old School” MLW World and NWA Southern champion Steve Corino?

 

 

 

DR: Corino is an American Dream wannabe. He is a clone of Tully Blanchard, Barry Windham and Dustin. He is a tremendous performer and it’s a shame he has to go to Japan to succeed.

 

 

 

AW: There have been some rumblings with the WWE releasing Dustin in mid-January that the two of you will be working for Zero-One in the near future. Can you comment on this rumor?

 

 

 

DR: As far as Dustin’s WWE deal it’s not my business. If he asks me for my opinion, I will offer it. We love being together on the road. As far as Zero-One I will be there January 4th wrestling for the 1st time in twelve years. I will be wrestling Steve Corino to straighten him out one and for all. I would like to get a couple of times over there with Dustin.

 

 

 

AW: What are you feelings on NWA: TNA as a weekly PPV show? Do they need a TV deal to survive?

 

 

 

DR: I would want it to happen for these kids to wrestle for this brand that Jeff and Jerry Jarrett have created. The guys are respectful to me. It will not work with just the PPV show. They need a national syndication deal to survive. I would like to do color with Don West and Mike Tenay.

 

 

 

AW: You were recently paired with “Wildcat” Chris Harris and “Cowboy” James Storm (America’s Most Wanted) in their feud with Simon Diamond and Johnny Swinger. Do you think those guys and well as former NWA World Champion AJ Styles are a place for TNA to get the TV deal?

 

 

 

DR: I talk lots about Storm and Harris. Those guys are some of my favorites in TNA. I call AJ “Opie” because he reminds me of the kid from Andy Griffith. AJ is a tremendous athlete. I have taken a big interest in moving him to the next level. AMW is kind of out of their element. They would have been tremendous in the NWA of the 1980’s. They are going to change the business like the Road Warriors did. Simon Diamond is an old school guy. I can see him wrestling for hours. You can also put Swinger in there with Abyss, Kid Kash and Sonny Siaki who I trained. There is great mixture of talent there for TNA to grow from.

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Guest FrigidSoul

From the sounds of it if Dusty gets any money from the DVD sets its just going to go into Abdullah the Butcher's pocket anyways. The comment of bringing in Chinese people and then when they leave the 'brothers' come in to make the ribs is just gold

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Guest Douche

Well Dusty Rhodes is calling himself crap. Are there any decent legends left? Flair is shit. Dusty said he's power hungry, he's a racist, and he thinks he's like the best thing since toilet paper. Hogan's a manipulator. Savage is old and bitter.

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Guest Mad the Swine

At the very least, Flair wanted to be a cowboy at one time. He apparently told this to George Scott in 1974, who was booking Mid-Atlantic. Scott refused to let him.

 

And there are a few other reports that Flair very much looked up to Dusty. But dunno how far he actually went.

 

Dusty just better be thrilled that McMahon took him in 1989. He had been canned as booker and had managed to tick off the execs at TBS for a couple of his ratings ploys.

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Guest Mindless_Aggression

And this just goes to show that Dusty Rhodes is still far and away the most electrifying man in sports entertainment.

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Guest TheZsaszHorsemen
I loved how Hall and Nash didn't make the nWo famous, Hogan and Savage did. :rolleyes:

To be fair... he's right about Hogan. Hell, Hogan even coined the name.

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Well, Hall & Nash we're doing pretty well on their own. Adding Hogan just made it even better.

I'd honestly say that without Hogan, the NWO probably would not have gotten off the ground. Adding Hogan gave it that extra "credibility", and it was something NEW.

 

If it wasn't for the NWO, Scott Hall would be remembered as a drunk who had a few good matches with HBK, and Nash would still be regarded as the shittiest (in terms of drawing power) WWF champ ever.

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Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes

If Big Lazy was the head of nWo, he'd probably have named it the Nash World Order.

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If Nash led the NWO they'd be called the "No, i don't really wanna go out to the ring... somebody get me a stripper...hey rookie, yeah you, yeah you disco, i mean sanders, yeah, go get me a stripper... it doesn't matter what kind.. wait, no, get me an asian stripper, one with huge jugs... yeah, and have her wear a school girl outfit... and get hall a bottle of jack... dude, i so said "jack", heh heh... World Order

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I also believed that Yokozuna would be the third member of the nWo. Interestingly enough, however, my brother told me the morning of Bash at the Beach that he had a dream that Hogan would be the third man. I, of course, rejected that idea as ludicrous, simply because I figured it would be another wrestler coming straight from the WWF. I guess I was wrong.

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I thought it was Savio Vega.

 

And can anybody clear up the Mr. Umphus thing for the good of the community? As far as I know, it was a little something a-like a-this:

 

Dusty: Nice spinebuster there!

Tony: I believe that's a sidewalk slam, Dusty.

Dusty: Well, excuuuuuuuuusse ME, Mr. Umphus!

Tony: ...

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The 3rd man.

 

... I can't believe I even dignified that question with an answer.

I can't believe I asked the question and you subsequently responded.

 

 

Hey RRR we should've dug up the Thuganomic Christmas Carol to repost for the holidays. I tried the search but couldn't track it down.

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Damnation! I knew something was missing from the holiday season - I felt a lil bit empty, in my heart; in my soul this year and I tried to fill it with the typical things; drugs, sex, booze... but nothin happenin'. Now I know...

 

Well, we have a few days left, John Cena's Thuganomics New Years Eve adventure w. Dick Clark is still a possibility.

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Yo yo DC rougher than Washington

Ringin' in the new year like you've always been

Waitin' til midnight so you can drop the ball

All your competition's scared, they gotta run from it all

But Dick you're hard and strong, like an Intel Pentium

You don't just go all night you go the whole damn millennium

FOX and the other channels are scred, they all ran and hid

Cuz your NYE is at the top of the $25,000 Pyramid

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