Blessing in disguise?

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I'm sure you all read the results of the Nakamura K-1 appearance.

 

So did New Japan get really lucky here? While Nakamura lost it was under questionable happenings. So does his stock rise or fall.

 

Yasuda also got throughly destroyed in his fight and Nagata lost as well.

[Guest Black Tiger]

Nakamura lost no stock what so ever, because of how NJPW is treating this as a screwjob. Hell, I'm even giving Nakamura a 50/50 of winning on 1/4 now.

[Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist]

I think it rises. Unlike both Nagata and Yasuda, Nakamura was able to leave with his head held up, and wasn't knocked on his ass. I think he has a 70/30 chance of winning on Sunday.

 

Personally, the guy who came out of this with the most is Naruse

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I really don't get why Inoki's still doing this crap. I mean Nagata could've been a huge draw had he not had his ass handed to him in these situations.

 

And putting your CHAMPION in a position to be humiliated is just beyond stupid.

[Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist]

I really don't get why Inoki's still doing this crap. I mean Nagata could've been a huge draw had he not had his ass handed to him in these situations.

 

And putting your CHAMPION in a position to be humiliated is just beyond stupid.

I'd hardly call Yuji "IWGP Champ for over a year" Nagata "not a draw". In fact, his loss to Cro Cop kicked off a storyline where he had a shit spring, and then dragged himself up to winning the IWGP off Yasuda. He did alright as champ, it was the shitty NJ vs Makai Club/Foreign Angle army that nearly killed the compnay.

 

Furthermore, Nagata got a monster reaction later on in the night when Inoki did his traditional countdown to the New Year in the ring. Saying that, Arnold's site has a report of the Japanese smart marks turning on him, and saying that they're worried that Sasaki will get a face pop on 1/4, if the crowd boo Nagata out of the Dome, because, allegedly, theyr'e gonna push Saskai. Again.

 

As for Nakamura, no one forced him into the fight. Personally, I would have backed out the second Takayama-Cro Cop was pulled, but thats just me. Plus I don't think he was humiliated, as NJ have saved face, and after all, unlike Yasuda, he managed to walk out of the ring

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Dave, regardless of how much New Japan was able to do with Nagata after the loss, there's almost no room to argue that it was anything but an extremely damaging blow to a man who was, otherwise, doing pretty well for himself at that point.

 

I believe that was the point of Mad Dog's post.

 

To answer Mad Dog's question: Inoki did it because he was desperate. Filipovic pulled out of his fight with Takayama, leaving Inoki with pretty crummy looking card. He knows from personal experience that Nagata is willing to get his ass kicked in a shoot fight if the money is right, so he throws lots of it Yuji's way and hopes people will still be interested in watching the slaughter.

[Tim Cooke 0]

Nagata has never been a draw.

 

Look at the numbers when he was headlining. 90% of the shows were down. Stick to something you know about.

 

Tim

[Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist]

Dave, regardless of how much New Japan was able to do with Nagata after the loss, there's almost no room to argue that it was anything but an extremely damaging blow to a man who was, otherwise, doing pretty well for himself at that point.

Oh that I can understand. From what I've been reading, Nagata would have gotten the IWGP a heckuva lot sooner than he did, if Cro Cop didn't humiliate him. Personally, I'd blame it, much like what Zack Arnold was saying, on Yuji simply listening to the wrong people

 

Look at the numbers when he was headlining. 90% of the shows were down. Stick to something you know about.

 

Again, I'd blame that on the phenomanal draw that NJ vs Makai Club wasn't

[Guest NANIWA*]

Again, I'd blame that on the phenomanal draw that NJ vs Makai Club wasn't

 

Numbers for NJ with Nagata at the head where terrible before the Makai Club was even formed. Just look at all of these Major NJ shows that bombed with Nagata in the Main-Event or in a high profile match in which they depended on him to draw. Keep in mind the Makai Club wasn't formed until August of 2002...

 

NJPW "FIGHTING SPIRIT SPECIAL", 4/5/02

Tokyo Budokan Hall

3,000 Fans(Seats 5,500)

 

1. El Samurai beat Masayuki Naruse (8:46) with a la magistral.

2. Hiro Saito beat Blue Wolf (7:16) with a senton bomb.

3. Tatsutoshi Goto beat Hiroshi Tanahashi (6:45) with a backdrop suplex.

4. Koji Kanemoto, Jado & Gedo beat Jushin Thunder Liger, Minoru Tanaka & Masahito Kakihara (15:05) when Kanemoto used a Falcon Arrow on Kakihara.

5. IWGP Ranking Match: Kensuke Sasaki beat Yutaka Yoshie (9:24) with a Northern Light bomb.

6. IWGP Ranking Match: Manabu Nakanishi vs. Hiroyoshi Tenzan went to a draw (20:00) when the time limit expired.

7. IWGP Ranking Match: Masahiro Chono beat Osamu Nishimura (19:06) by pinfall after a Butterfly Lock.

8. IWGP Heavyweight Title: Yuji Nagata beat Tadao Yasuda © (15:01) with the Nagata Lock II to become the 31st champion.

 

NJPW "BATTLE ZONE 6-7", 6/7/02

Tokyo Nippon Budokan

9,000 Fans(16,500)

 

1. El Samurai & Blue Wolf beat Katsuyori Shibata & Wataru Inoue (7:24) when Wolf used a Mongol slam on Inoue.

2. MIKAMI & Takashi Sasaki beat Poison Sawada JULIE & Hebikage (14:39) when MIKAMI used a Swanton bomb on Hebikage.

3. Mariko Yoshida , Michiko Omukai , Rie Tamada , Ai Fujita & baby A beat Lioness Asuka , GAMI , noki-A , Fabi Apache & Bionic J (19:02) when Fujita used a firebird splash on Apache.

4. Tadao Yasuda & Osamu Nishimura beat Hiro Saito & Tatsutoshi Goto (2:21) when Nishimura used a ground Cobra Twist on Goto.

5. Koji Kanemoto, AKIRA, Black Tiger & Gedo beat Jushin Thunder Liger, Minoru Tanaka, Tiger Mask & Curry Man (12:36) when AKIRA used an STF on Curry.

6. Yutaka Yoshie beat Minoru Fujita (6:16) with a back blow.

7. Bas Rutten beat Masayuki Naruse (6:37) by referee stop.

8. Masahiro Chono & Scott Norton beat Kenzo Suzuki & Hiroshi Tanahashi (11:59) when Norton used a Jackhammer on Suzuki.

9. Yoshihiro Takayama beat Manabu Nakanishi (17:50) with a left knee kick.

10. IWGP Heavyweight Title: Yuji Nagata © beat Kensuke Sasaki (22:44) with a backdrop hold (2nd defense).

 

NJPW "SAPPORO FIGHTING SPIRIT MEMORIAL DAY 2ND", 7/20/02

Hokkaido Sports Center

6,000 Fans(8,500)

 

1. Wataru Inoue beat Katsushi Takemura (5:43) with the Triangle Lancer.

2. Giant Singh, Hiro Saito & Tatsutoshi Goto beat Rob Rage, El Samurai & Dr. Wagner Jr. (6:30) when Singh used a chokeslam on Wagner.

3. Kyoko Inoue , Yoshiko Tamura & Misae Genki beat Mima Shimoda , Etsuko Mita & Chaparita ASARI (16:06) when Inoue used a lariat on ASARI.

4. Jushin Thunder Liger, Minoru Tanaka, Masayuki Naruse & Tiger Mask beat Koji Kanemoto, AKIRA, Gedo & GOKU-DO (13:39) when Tiger used a rounding body press on GOKU-DO.

5. Kensuke Sasaki beat Blue Wolf (6:19) with a lariat.

6. Manabu Nakanishi & Shiro Koshinaka vs. Tadao Yasuda & Yutaka Yoshie went to a no contest (6:59).

7. Rick Steiner & Scott Steiner beat Kenzo Suzuki & Hiroshi Tanahashi (13:42) when Scott used a Steiner Screwdriver on Tanahashi.

8. Kazuyuki Fujita Return Match: Kazuyuki Fujita beat Masahito Kakihara (1:09) with a sleeper hold.

9. G1 Special Tag - Block A vs. Block B: Masahiro Chono & Osamu Nishimura beat Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Yoshihiro Takayama (28:40) when Nishimura used a ground Cobra Twist on Tenzan.

10. IWGP Heavyweight Title: Yuji Nagata © beat Bas Rutten (8:10) with the Nagata Lock II (3rd defense).

 

Credit: Stuart with Results...

 

Just go through all of the tours that Nagata was champ before the Makai Club at Stu's site. The numbers where hitting scary lows before the idea of the Makai Club was even thought of...

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Here are some more numbers from the big shows and their main events to prove that point (from Pro Wrestling History):

 

6/00 Budukan Hall (Sasaki/Nakanishi IWGP Title): 10,000

 

8/00 Sumo Hall (Sasaki/Nakanishi G1 Final): 11,500

 

10/00 Tokyo Dome (Kawada/Sasaki): 64,000

 

1/01 Tokyo Dome (Kawada/Sasaki IWGP Title): 62,000

 

6/01 Budukan Hall (Fujita/Nagata IWGP Title): 13,200

 

8/01 Sumo Hall (Nagata/Mutoh G1 Final) 11,500

 

10/01 Tokyo Dome (Nagata/Akiyama v. Mutoh/Hase): 47,000

 

What's scary about that last one is that it's way down from the year before, and the shoot disaster hadn't even happened yet.

 

1/02 Tokyo Dome (Nagata/Akiyama GHC Title): 51,500

 

5/02 Tokyo Dome (semi-main: Nagata/Takayama IWGP Title, main: Chono/Misawa): 57,000

 

6/02 Budukan Hall (Nagata/Sasaki IWGP Title): 9,000

 

These aren't too impressive, either, considering the only one that was an improvement was 5/02, and you'd have hard time convincing anyone that Nagata/Takayama was the big draw there.

[Guest NANIWA*]

For me Chosyu, I find the 6/7/02 match the defining point that Nagata as champ failed to produce any type of draw for NJPW. Sasaki & Nagata where considered two of NJ's top faces at the time of their match, and all they could draw was a terrible 9,000 people to one of Tokyo's last remaining "Hotspots" in Tokyo Nippon Budokan. Hell, AJPW "claimed" 10,500 at Budokan last month, and the show's main event was a terrible looking Toshiaki Kawada & Kendo Kashin vs. Shinya Hashimoto & Wataru Sakata tag match. Now I'm sure this figure was a little exaggerated by Muto & Co., but the fact that NJ couldn't even claim the same building HALF full is just a disgrace for the company...

[Guest RickyChosyu]

It's also sad when you consider how well he and Fujita did in the same building just a year earlier. I doubt he'll ever reach that level of connection with the fans again.