Funny point about Angle/Cena

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

You know the AS/RRR crowd turned the whole "Angle/Cena will be the next Hart/Austin" thing into a huge joke, but what the two matches accomplished is pretty similar:

 

Both got an upper midcard heel hugely over as a face, when he outpopped the supposed face at the closing stages of the match. Also both sowed the seeds for the "face's" heel turn because we're now seeing Angle turn heel again apparantly.

 

I'm not comparing the two in terms of quality, or importance, but both matches accomplished similar goals. Time will only tell if the WWE can capitalize on their momentum with Cena.

[Guest Anglesault]

You know the AS/RRR crowd

 

You hear that RRR? We have a crowd.

 

You neglected to mention that both feuds were based on rap offs an midgets.

[Guest PowerPB13]

You know the AS/RRR crowd

 

You hear that RRR? We have a crowd.

 

You neglected to mention that both feuds were based on rap offs an midgets.

I must have missed the Hart/Austin rapoff.

 

-Patrick

[Papacita 0]

I'm not comparing the two in terms of quality, or importance, but both matches accomplished similar goals.

I seriously doubt that WWE intended to turn either Kurt or Cena with that match.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I'm not comparing the two in terms of quality, or importance, but both matches accomplished similar goals.

I seriously doubt that WWE intended to turn either Kurt or Cena with that match.

No, they did the unthinkable and LISTENED to the fans. The fans said "We like Cena more than Angle."

 

 

And lo and behold, Cena is a face.

[NYU 0]

How come people always put "Funny" in the subject title when the content isn't that funny?

 

......

 

......anyway....

 

Both got an upper midcard heel hugely over as a face, when he outpopped the supposed face at the closing stages of the match. Also both sowed the seeds for the "face's" heel turn because we're now seeing Angle turn heel again apparantly.

 

That doesn't seem right. Austin/Hart, in THAT very night, got Austin completely over as a face and Hart completely over as a heel, doing a double switch. After the Angle/Cena match, Angle was still a face and technically Cena was still a heel. In the Austin/Hart match, Hart become a heel RIGHT THEN. Angle is now becoming a heel three months after the match, with absolutely none of it actually being attributed to his feud with Cena.

 

The two matches aren't really alike at all. I've yet to hear an argument that compares the two successfully without it looking like the person is grasping for straws.

[Guest Anglesault]

Honestly though, Y2J/RVD at Unforgiven did the same thing.

 

No one calls that Austin/Hart.

[Papacita 0]

I'm not comparing the two in terms of quality, or importance, but both matches accomplished similar goals.

I seriously doubt that WWE intended to turn either Kurt or Cena with that match.

No, they did the unthinkable and LISTENED to the fans. The fans said "We like Cena more than Angle."

 

 

And lo and behold, Cena is a face.

By that logic, you could place Chyna/Jericho on the same level as Austin/Hart.

 

Really, there's no comparison.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Honestly though, Y2J/RVD at Unforgiven did the same thing.

 

No one calls that Austin/Hart.

No it didn't.

 

RVD was already crazy over as a face dude.

[Mole 0]

I'm not comparing the two in terms of quality, or importance, but both matches accomplished similar goals. Time will only tell if the WWE can capitalize on their momentum with Cena.

No they will mess it up somehow, even though Cena took a crappy gimmick and made it something.

 

If Cena improves in the ring, he'll be the future of WWE.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Also both sowed the seeds for the "face's" heel turn because we're now seeing Angle turn heel again apparantly.

The Guerreros angle is sowing the seeds for the heel turn. It has nothing to do with Cena.

 

The mockery is warranted because some of you were just so darn adamant about it. It was cute.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I'm not comparing the two in terms of quality, or importance, but both matches accomplished similar goals. Time will only tell if the WWE can capitalize on their momentum with Cena.

No they will mess it up somehow, even though Cena took a crappy gimmick and made it something.

 

If Cena improves in the ring, he'll be the future of WWE.

Cena has already grasped the concept of SELLING something which eludes people on the calibre of Kurt Angle. AND he was named Most Improved by WON.

 

Trust me, in a year, he's the franchise man.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

No, they did the unthinkable and LISTENED to the fans. The fans said "We like Cena more than Angle."

 

I think Angle was a little more over than Cena in the match. The split crowd really surprised me though.

[Guest Anglesault]

Honestly though, Y2J/RVD at Unforgiven did the same thing.

 

No one calls that Austin/Hart.

No it didn't.

 

RVD was already crazy over as a face dude.

Cena wasn't exactly a real heel going into NM either.

 

Come to think of it, it's much more like Jericho/RVD.

 

It had a face and a heel that wasn't really a heel, and the crowd more or less turned to the heel by the end.

 

The heel (RVD) turns into a full face within the next two months

 

The face (Jericho) turns heel three months later and enters the world title scene.

 

Three months after the match, the heel (RVD) got his push halted by HHH...and it looks like Cena's going to Raw!

 

Angle/Cena=Jericho/RVD

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Honestly though, Y2J/RVD at Unforgiven did the same thing.

 

No one calls that Austin/Hart.

No it didn't.

 

RVD was already crazy over as a face dude.

Cena wasn't exactly a real heel going into NM either.

 

Come to think of it, it's much more like Jericho/RVD.

 

It had a face and a heel that wasn't really a heel, and the crowd more or less turned to the heel by the end.

 

The heel turns into a full face within the next two months

 

The face turns three months later and enters the world title scene.

 

Three months after the match, the heel got his push halted by HHH...and it looks like Cena's going to Raw!

 

Angle/Cena=Jericho/RVD

Well he was a heel in that he acted very heelish, but got cheered for doing it. (IE: He calls Angle out, runs to the back, jumps Angle, does the "you can't even see me" thing, jumps in a limo and runs away... all to a huge face pop.

 

In that situation maybe it's time to rexamine how sympathetic your "babyfaces" are.

[NYU 0]

Honestly though, Y2J/RVD at Unforgiven did the same thing.

 

No one calls that Austin/Hart.

No it didn't.

 

RVD was already crazy over as a face dude.

Cena wasn't exactly a real heel going into NM either.

 

Come to think of it, it's much more like Jericho/RVD.

 

It had a face and a heel that wasn't really a heel, and the crowd more or less turned to the heel by the end.

 

The heel turns into a full face within the next two months

 

The face turns three months later and enters the world title scene.

 

Three months after the match, the heel got his push halted by HHH...and it looks like Cena's going to Raw!

 

Angle/Cena=Jericho/RVD

Well he was a heel in that he acted very heelish, but got cheered for doing it. (IE: He calls Angle out, runs to the back, jumps Angle, does the "you can't even see me" thing, jumps in a limo and runs away... all to a huge face pop.

 

In that situation maybe it's time to rexamine how sympathetic your "babyfaces" are.

Faces have been like that since the Attitude days. It's not like it's new or anything.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Well he was a heel in that he acted very heelish, but got cheered for doing it. (IE: He calls Angle out, runs to the back, jumps Angle, does the "you can't even see me" thing, jumps in a limo and runs away... all to a huge face pop.

I thought you said that the sowing of the face turn began AT No Mercy?

 

If you're going to judge by when Cena was starting to get cheered you'd have to go all the way back to May. I remember one Smackdown from that month where he beat Funaki in a battle rap, then squashed him in about a minute, all to a very clear face pop.

 

Or, if you go by when he officially turned face, it'll have to be the Smackdown where he refused to join Team Lesnar. He was wrestling as a heel for a couple weeks after No Mercy.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Honestly though, Y2J/RVD at Unforgiven did the same thing.

 

No one calls that Austin/Hart.

No it didn't.

 

RVD was already crazy over as a face dude.

Cena wasn't exactly a real heel going into NM either.

 

Come to think of it, it's much more like Jericho/RVD.

 

It had a face and a heel that wasn't really a heel, and the crowd more or less turned to the heel by the end.

 

The heel turns into a full face within the next two months

 

The face turns three months later and enters the world title scene.

 

Three months after the match, the heel got his push halted by HHH...and it looks like Cena's going to Raw!

 

Angle/Cena=Jericho/RVD

Well he was a heel in that he acted very heelish, but got cheered for doing it. (IE: He calls Angle out, runs to the back, jumps Angle, does the "you can't even see me" thing, jumps in a limo and runs away... all to a huge face pop.

 

In that situation maybe it's time to rexamine how sympathetic your "babyfaces" are.

Faces have been like that since the Attitude days. It's not like it's new or anything.

Not really, faces never "ran away."

 

In the Attitude days it was the one thing that seperated heels from faces: faces kept fighting till the bitter end. Heels ran.

 

Cena taunted, ran, sneak attacked and ran again, if that was Angle doing it to Brock circa WM XIX there would have been massive heat for it.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Well he was a heel in that he acted very heelish, but got cheered for doing it. (IE: He calls Angle out, runs to the back, jumps Angle, does the "you can't even see me" thing, jumps in a limo and runs away... all to a huge face pop.

I thought you said that the sowing of the face turn began AT No Mercy?

 

If you're going to judge by when Cena was starting to get cheered you'd have to go all the way back to May. I remember one Smackdown from that month where he beat Funaki in a battle rap, then squashed him in about a minute, all to a very clear face pop.

 

Or, if you go by when he officially turned face, it'll have to be the Smackdown where he refused to join Team Lesnar. He was wrestling as a heel for a couple weeks after No Mercy.

No Mercy was the first time I saw John Cena significantly out pop a major face in a high level match. In that, I think it was a VERY significant moment indeed for him.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I can't fucking believe it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a crowd.

 

*big ups all his homies*

 

Though, really, it should be the RRR/AS crowd... I mean, c'mon... *points to self with thumbs - but not ala RVD* ...

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

And it was nothing like Hart/Austin. If anything, Eddie/Angle has the possibility of sorta being like that. Angle enhancing Eddie's anti-hero gimmick by playing the traditionalist who touts the values of playing by the rules (all the while not).

 

And Cena will never be of Austin stature - given the current wrestling environment - no one will.

[Downhome 0]

Trust me, in a year, he's the franchise man.

Now this is something that I can agree with. John Cena will not be as big as an Austin or a Rocky, but he's going to be huge over the next year or so. If WWE somehow regained some of it's popularity that was lost a few years ago, Cena could be that much more of an impact player.

 

Now all I want him to do is to get a new finisher, or at least start doing what he already has worth a crap more consistantly.

[Guest Anglesault]

The one thing Cena has going against him: He's proven many times that he simply can't have a decent match wth Brock.

 

If the company decides to make Brock the firm number one, do they really want to supplement that with a guy he sucks in thering with?

[Downhome 0]

Then maybe the rumors of his going to RAW have a reason. I'd rather have Cena on RAW anyway, but that's just me I think.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Now all I want him to do is to get a new finisher, or at least start doing what he already has worth a crap more consistantly.

 

I agree. I'd mark out if he went back to using the Chloroform!

 

The one thing Cena has going against him: He's proven many times that he simply can't have a decent match wth Brock.

 

I disagree. I enjoyed the bout from Backlash. I think it was even better than Guerreros / TGWTT.