The fighting game character tournament 2k4

[AndrewTS 0]

I disagree about the balance. In MK1 Cage was a complete joke and Lui was pretty much the best player character--which is sad if you can't balance 7 characters somewhat well.

 

MKII--Jax and Mileena were head-and-shoulders above the rest, and Reptile was terrible. Tsung was horribly week, but the morphs and his throw made up for it.

 

Those other games mostly have way more fighters and the balance discrepency is far less in most cases. Yeah, Zang and Dan are weaker than most fighters in Alpha and Akuma is the best, but that's supposed to be that way. Akuma was still toned down in his normal playable version, Zang always required a different approach but was never at "complete joke" level (his jabs and shorts are stronger than some fighters' heavy attacks, has an easy projectile counter, long range, although his throws were steadily toned down). Dan was meant to be a joke, of course.

 

Checking out the SFA2 ranking chart in the Versus guide, comparing expert gamers fighting percentages using all the characters, if you take a look at the different charts, the rankings are all different. While Ken, Chun-Li, and Akuma are near the top of the chart (they're easiest to play as, big surprise). The majority of the chart is wildly different depending on where it came from, and the only ones extremely strong/weak are mainly special characters and joke character Dan.

 

That seems to indicate to me that the balance is pretty damn good for most of the characters.

 

Any fighting game that has juggles(which is like virtually everyone now, 2D or 3D) owes credit to MK for innovating the genre.

 

You say that as if it is a good thing.

 

Admittedly, the balance in MK3 isn't as off as the earlier games (from what I've played of it, at least), but in Trilogy...*shudder*.

[Anya 0]

I have never seen anyone else say Liu is the best. General consensus is Sonya is tops, then Cage and Kano tied for second. Mocking it for only having 7 characters? Well, Capcom couldn't balance an 8 character roster! SF II is far more unbalanced than MK.

 

Jax and Mileena are the best and Reptile sucks in MK II. Yes. So what? Your own example of Alpha 2 has characters that suck and characters that are undisputedly tops. My point is not that MK is uber balanced by any means, it's that it has the same balance issues almost all fighting games have.

 

And what about other games? With the exception of SF III, everything Capcom has done from Alpha 3 on has been bashed by even the most hardcore of fans for being unbalanced. Even the beloved Super Turbo has to have a character banned.

 

Namco games are the same way. They all have tiers. Jin owns Kuma. Ogres own Jun.

 

 

MKT is not THAT bad. With a few exceptions, like Noob Saibot(who wasn't created by Boon and the others...), and maybe the bosses(though more in a "they're really boring to fight" sense, than being too good).

 

 

 

You don't like juggling?

[Renegade 0]

Any fighting game that has juggles(which is like virtually everyone now, 2D or 3D) owes credit to MK for innovating the genre.

Art of fighting invented super moves, does it make it a good game?

[Anya 0]

Not necessarily, but it deserves credit regardless.

 

Good thing MK is both good AND innovative!

[AndrewTS 0]

SF II is far more unbalanced than MK.

 

SFII, the first of the modern 2D fighters, had balance issues that were largely correcting in upgrades. Hardly anyone actually plays SFII anymore, but the major balance issues faded away towards the end of the series. By the time MK came around, the makers of that game should have learned that balance is pretty important for gameplay.

 

How's Cage #2? He's Joe Average stats-wise, and his specials all suck.

 

Jax and Mileena are the best and Reptile sucks in MK II. Yes. So what? Your own example of Alpha 2 has characters that suck and characters that are undisputedly tops. My point is not that MK is uber balanced by any means, it's that it has the same balance issues almost all fighting games have.

 

Yeah, bosses and a joke character are weaker/stronger than most of the pack. All of MK2's regular characters are supposed to be serious, non-boss fighters. Hence, there shouldn't be a major discrepency in strength among them.

 

And what about other games? With the exception of SF III, everything Capcom has done from Alpha 3 on has been bashed by even the most hardcore of fans for being unbalanced. Even the beloved Super Turbo has to have a character banned.

 

Gee, a boss character is stronger than most of the cast. Big shock there.

 

Also, I made it pretty clear that I don't like SFA3 except for Karin, which is why I used Alpha 2 as an example, not Alpha 3. I've also already conceeded the newer

Capcom games have balance issues, and major ones. Cable in MvC2 for instance. *shakes head*

 

Namco games are the same way. They all have tiers. Jin owns Kuma. Ogres own Jun.

 

Good for you, but I've long gotten sick of Tekken anyway. *shrug*

 

MKT is not THAT bad. With a few exceptions, like Noob Saibot(who wasn't created by Boon and the others...), and maybe the bosses(though more in a "they're really boring to fight" sense, than being too good).

 

And Rain, and the classic characters, and the whole game being a huge glitchy mess...

 

Trilogy blows.

[Guest Coffey]

MKII--Jax and Mileena were head-and-shoulders above the rest, and Reptile was terrible. Tsung was horribly week, but the morphs and his throw made up for it.

 

HAHA! Yeah right. Jax is only good if you can get close. He is a beast up close, but in tournament play, you won't get close often. Out of six rounds of play, I never even saw someone select Jax.

 

Mileena is really good, and matches up well against some characters like Johnny Cage, so I can't argue about that.

 

Reptile terrible? Definitely no. Any character with a slide, projectile & ninja roundhouse will be played.

 

I won the tournament with Shang Tsung, so there ya go.

[Anya 0]

By the time MK came around, the makers of that game should have learned that balance is pretty important for gameplay.

 

 

"By the time MK came around"? MK came out in 92! It was being made while SF II was still new.

 

 

How's Cage #2? He's Joe Average stats-wise, and his specials all suck.

 

 

Shadow kick is one of the best retaliation moves in the game.

 

 

 

Yeah, bosses and a joke character are weaker/stronger than most of the pack. All of MK2's regular characters are supposed to be serious, non-boss fighters. Hence, there shouldn't be a major discrepency in strength among them.

 

 

None of those characters in Alpha 2 are bosses...

 

 

 

Gee, a boss character is stronger than most of the cast. Big shock there.

 

 

They tried to tone him down to be a playable character...they just failed.

 

If hidden characters don't count then neither do Human Smoke and Ermac in the MK3 games, which make those all the more balanced since they're two of the best in the game.

 

 

 

Also, I made it pretty clear that I don't like SFA3 except for Karin, which is why I used Alpha 2 as an example, not Alpha 3. I've also already conceeded the newer

Capcom games have balance issues, and major ones. Cable in MvC2 for instance. *shakes head*

 

 

Not liking Alpha 3 doesn't mean it isn't an example of another unbalanced fighter.

 

It's not just newer Capcom games either. Alpha 1 was too. I already mentioned SF II. Even though it got better with each new upgrade, it still was never perfect. Guile was still better than like Honda in HF. I'm betting Vampire is unbalanced too, I know I've seen tiers for it.

 

SNK is guilty too. Ukyo in Shodown II is infamous.

 

 

 

Good for you, but I've long gotten sick of Tekken anyway. *shrug*

 

 

Like it or not, it's still unbalanced. I'm sure if KOR sees this he can testify that SC series has it's balance issues too.

 

 

And Rain, and the classic characters, and the whole game being a huge glitchy mess...

 

Trilogy blows.

 

 

Like Noob, Rain wasn't made by the actual Midway MK team. MKT and MK Gold both have crap like that because they were upgrade home releases by other teams.

 

Trilogy is cool.

[Jer 0]

I'm sure if KOR sees this he can testify that SC series has it's balance issues too.

 

Nod. Ivy, Xianghua, Cervy, Yoshi and Sophie are pretty much acknowledged to be the best characters, with lots of advantageous matchups and few if any disadvantageous ones, while Yunsung is dramatically underpowered, and is at a significant disadvantage against any other character. SC2 is still considered to be a fairly balanced game, but it's far from perfect. No fighter is. I didn't really play competitive SC1, but I heard that Cervy was pretty overpowered there, too.

 

I think you can make a lot of arguments against MK, but I don't think balance is a very strong one. I mean, of the 2D fighters in the competitive rotation now, CvS2, MvC2 and GGXX are all totally unbalanced if you look at the entire roster. You're just not going to see a high level Servbot beating a high level Magneto, or a high level May beating a high level Eddie. I won't even pretend to know anything about tourney level MK, but I doubt it could be much worse balance-wise.