Guest The Mighty Damaramu Report post Posted April 14, 2002 You know I have a very basic knowledge of the whole Tiger Mask thing. I know that Sayama was the first and Misawa was the second. But I don't know who the 3rd and 4th were. So I have some questions. -Who are the 3rd and 4th Tiger Mask. -Who was the best Tiger Mask? -Did Misawa wrestle a heavy style or a Jr. style like the other Tiger Masks? -What are some good Tiger Mask matches?(dates please...I'm dealing with Lynch) -What's the timeline on the different Tiger Masks? I mean when was who Tiger Mask and why'd he quit being Tiger Mask? Umm.....yeah that's it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Black Tiger Report post Posted April 14, 2002 Tiger Mask 3 was Koji Kanemoto. We have to wait until he unmasks to find out who Tiger Mask 4 is. Sayama: 1981-83 Retired Misawa: 1985-90 Unmasked to elevate career Kanemoto: 1992-94 lost a mask vs mask match to Lyger TM4 1995-Present Misawa was basicly a junior until he bulked up in 1986. Good matches: Sayama VS Dynamite Kid (1981-1983) All are pretty good Misawa: VS Kobyashi (8/31/85) NWA Jr. title Misawa VS Hennig (1/2/88) AWA Title Misawa VS Tsuruta (3/9/88) Misawa VS Steamboat (3/8/89) NWA Title Kanemoto VS Lyger (1/4/94) mask VS mask I've only seen TM4 VS Lyger in J Cup 3. hope this helps Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Mighty Damaramu Report post Posted April 14, 2002 Well I've seen Tiger Mask IV wrestle in a 10-man at M-Pro These Days....but that's about all I've seen of him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted April 14, 2002 IMO Tiger Mask was Sayama. If you want Misawa get Misawa and 3 + 4 just don't live upto the legend. Black Tiger 1 was Marc Rocco 2 was Eddie Guerrero 3 is Silver King may have missed one there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Loss4Words Report post Posted April 14, 2002 I'm doing this from memory, so let's hope I have the dates right: TIGER MASK SAYAMA 07/23/82 - Tiger Mask v Dynamite Kid Great match with a pretty lousy finish, but one that ended up having value over the long haul. Watch for Bret Hart at ringside. ****1/2 07/30/82 - Tiger Mask v Bret Hart Good match that starts off rather awkwardly, but by the time Bret settles into the style and it's getting good, it's time for the match to end. Oh well, still a good effort. ***3/4 08/05/82 - Tiger Mask v Dynamite Kid My personal favorite of all their matches. I believe this one had a clean finish and no interference at all, but like I said, I'm doing this from memory. If this is the match I think it is, you should search it out. ****3/4 04/23/83 - Tiger Mask v Dynamite Kid (2/3 falls) Historic match and one that gets a lot of credit for being great and while it does flash brilliance, the booking is a bit confusing. I can't tell you how many times I've watched this match and I still do not know what the hell the finish is. It's frustrating. No one else seems to know either. ****1/2 (might be ***** if I had a clue what the finish was supposed to be) I'm not a big fan of the matches Sayama had with Kuniaki Kobayashi personally, but most like those matches, so you might want to search them out. I do like the Black Tiger stuff though and have yet to see a match between the two that hasn't hit at least ****. He also had good matches with guys like Les Thatcher, Steve Wright and Ultraman. As for Misawa, I've seen one match of his I really enjoy, and that was the 12/08/84 match with Pirata Morgan. The match is overrated (I believe Phil Schneider gave it ****3/4), but it's still a good effort, somewhere in the neighborhood of ***3/4-****. The match is too short and the build takes up too much time in contrast to the actual meat and potatoes portion of the match. Still worth watching. That's about it for now. There are tons of other matches I'd like to gloss over, but I don't have my facts straight at the moment so I'll shut up now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jubuki Report post Posted April 15, 2002 I just watched that Misawa/Pirata match this morning. Is the AJ Classics version, which runs 7'21", the only one out there or the full? Because if it is, it sure as fuck ain't a classic. It's good, but the stuff Dynamite Kid was doing from the previous years and earlier that year SAH-MOKES it. The first two matches of the NJ Jr. Heavyweight tournament from 2/84 are better, and almost all the Tiger Mask I confrontations are far better. Pirata was really good, Misawa wrestled like everyone could see his face - not nearly enough demonstrative selling to make it look competitive. Maybe somewhere in the neighborhood of ***-ish, maybe I'm not being fair for the time period...but I don't think I'm unfair. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Mighty Damaramu Report post Posted April 15, 2002 I dunno...Misawa's a pretty big guy isn't he? I mean I'm sure he's the size of one of the WWF wrestlers. Which one is he as big as? Is he big like Rock and HHH or normal like Austin or little like Jericho? Because it'd seem he'd have to be small and quick to be Tiger Mask. But I just can't picture him as this little guy bouncing around the ring. I was under the impression his style was completely different. Did he even do good work as Tiger Mask? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ace309 Report post Posted April 15, 2002 Well, as I recall, Billington was a little disappointed in TM Misawa because he was a bit bigger and heavier than a Tiger Mask should be, but they still put on great matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffin Surfer Report post Posted April 15, 2002 08/05/82 - Tiger Mask v Dynamite Kid My personal favorite of all their matches. I believe this one had a clean finish and no interference at all, but like I said, I'm doing this from memory. If this is the match I think it is, you should search it out. ****3/4 Would this be the one that DK lost by a german suplex pin and features arguebaly the greatest head scissor sequence in history: where DK tries to escape by flipping out, but Tiger Mask just spikes his head into the ground. I'd gave that one about ****3/4. Or is this the one where DK hits two cradled tombstones, but misses a flying head BUTT and gets rolled up. I'd give that one about ****1/4 I was wandering the dates on those. Also does anybody know which matches did DK wrestle Misawa in. I have a comp featuring nothing but DK/Tiger matches and in the last few I know they weren't in 83 because DK was already a steriod mutant. So I was wandering if it was Misawa as Tiger Mask. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tim Cooke Report post Posted April 15, 2002 "I dunno...Misawa's a pretty big guy isn't he?" He certainly isn't a typical Junior, even back in the day. "Did he even do good work as Tiger Mask?" He did good work. To compare it to the original TM is kind of useless because they were two different wrestlers. A better way to go about looking at TM Misawa is to see how this part of his career fit in with the other stages of his career. Understanding TM Misawa transitioning into Misawa #1 oppositte Jumbo to becoming the "Man" in AJPW to becoming an elder to both Kobashi and then Akiyama to the washed up shell of himself that he is today in NOAH. It is also cool to see where Misawa's high flying moves come out of, as compared to his main peer of Kawada who does little flying post 1989. Tim Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MrDanger Report post Posted April 15, 2002 I dunno...Misawa's a pretty big guy isn't he? I mean I'm sure he's the size of one of the WWF wrestlers. Which one is he as big as? Is he big like Rock and HHH or normal like Austin or little like Jericho? Because it'd seem he'd have to be small and quick to be Tiger Mask. But I just can't picture him as this little guy bouncing around the ring. I was under the impression his style was completely different. Did he even do good work as Tiger Mask? I'd say late 80's Misawa was pretty a similar size to what Bret Hart was in the mid 90's. I haven't seen too much of Misawa as Tiger Mask but to me he came across as a heavyweight trying to work a Junior style. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest El Psycho Diablo Report post Posted April 19, 2002 I'm fairly new to puro, so that may explain a few things. I've heard this a few times now, and I'm curious.. "..when I know that Satoru Sayama has verbally disgraced this great sport of puroresu ever since he quit in 1985.." Anyone know exactly what it was he said? -Shiro Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffin Surfer Report post Posted April 19, 2002 First answer my question. Does anybody know if Misawa ever faced Dynamite Kid as Tiger Mask. Iam pretty sure he did. I've seen pretty much every Tiger Mask/Dynamite Kid match, I'am having difficutly in figuring out if the Tiger Mask is Sayama or Misawa in the later matches with a bulked up Dynamite Kid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest HellSpawn Report post Posted April 19, 2002 Talking about TM, any of you have the tape "the Lives of Tiger mask" ? Because I want to order that tape for one of my tape dealers, but I want to know if the tape is good, really good or just blah, this guy said its a 1hr tape. Thanx. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest muzanisa Report post Posted April 19, 2002 yes Billington faced Misawa, I have it on Pure Dynamite and the best of the Dynamite Kid. Good matches but IMO not as good as Sayama Mask. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Black Tiger Report post Posted April 20, 2002 Sayama wrote a book called "Kayfabe" where he revealed many secrets of the business. Sayama went on to some fame in the MMA world and returned to the ring occasionaly as "Tiger King". He teamed up with Antonio Inoki to face Jyushin Lyger and Yoshiaki Fujiwara in a great match in New Japan in May of 1997. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest El Psycho Diablo Report post Posted April 20, 2002 Thanks, BT. Much appreciated. I don't suppose anyone has a clue where I could find this book, (or a translated version)? -Shiro Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted April 23, 2002 I seem to remember seeing a match between Sayama and Jushin Liger from 1994. Sayama was only billed as Saturo Sayama. They were basically just boxing each other but at one time Liger hit Sayama with a very nice kick and Sayama got up from it with a big smile on his face. Was this the "real" Saturo Sayama? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RickyChosyu Report post Posted April 24, 2002 I seem to remember seeing a match between Sayama and Jushin Liger from 1994. Sayama was only billed as Saturo Sayama. They were basically just boxing each other but at one time Liger hit Sayama with a very nice kick and Sayama got up from it with a big smile on his face. Was this the "real" Saturo Sayama? I remember Pegasus stating in one of his reviews that Sayama and Lyger never had a singles match. Also, from what I've heard Sayama wrestled in '94 as Tiger King, not under his real name. I'm not an authority on the subject at all, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted April 30, 2002 That's interesting. Anyone out there who know's for sure if that match ever happened. I mean I know it happened but was it the real Sayama? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
