RVD DVD

[Fökai 0]

Bottom line is, deadweights aren't able to be carried to **** matches.

 

No examples to disprove this, which is because when the Warriors and Sids were motivated to put on a good match, which was pretty rare in itself, they could pull their weight in a match.

[Guest Coffey]

Actually, I think that the Ultimate Warrior was a better worker as well. He was less sloppy, that's for sure. He had more emotion too...which does actually matter.

 

Rob Van Dam has never had a match as good as Warrior/Savage at Mania 7.

RVD has a much better move-set. He also sells a hell of a lot more. Honestly, any bodybuilder could've done what Hellwig did.

 

And that match had nothing to do with Warrior AT ALL. It was quite possibly the best carry-job ever.

I definitely don't agree with that. Rob Van Dam, in my opinion, has the worst moveset in WWE right now.

 

Sure, during PPV's every now and then he can "wow" the crowd with one or two new flips. That's all they are though. Flips. He has the worst transition moves in the history of the business. Selling? HA! That's a joke. Look at the childish facial mannuerisms. He can't sell anything other than his own finisher. I've seen his leg get worked. Did he hobble around? Yeah, for the next two moves or so...then I guess he "forgot."

 

People complain about RVD in ECW because they say all he did was stall & taunt. That caused him to have better matches though! Instead of doing god awful transition forearms or kicks (like he did last night when he had Orton in the corner) he would just spot-stall-spot-taunt. At least it kept the crowd alive and active.

 

The Ultimate Warrior didn't have the greastest offense in the world. However, that was twelve years ago...and he was booked to be a warrior. Which means he was made to look like a powerhouse. So, obviously, he used press slams and clotheslines. It made sense. Why does Van Dam do a backflip after a shoulder block?

[nl5xsk1 0]

a) releasing a dvd has NOTHING to do with a push, it has to do with making the company some money. I'd don't think giving Flair half the tag straps was related to his dvd, it was just to give the 4 members of Evolution some gold.

 

b) if they marketed it right (e.g. showed some of his bumps and risks from ECW) then the marks would buy it. Watching him somersault from the ropes into the crowd is not something that the WWE sheep see everyday, and if given teaser clips of bumps like that, people would buy it.

 

c) I'm not a proponent of an RVD dvd, nor would I buy one. Just giving my two cents with parts a) & b).

[Guest Coffey]

You know, come to think of it, an RVD DVD most likely would sell. He brought a lot of new things to WWE early in his career. It's just that WWE style and having to incorporate transition moves, I feel, killed his offense. He can bump well, but he can't sell.

 

None of those things really matter when you're just watching a spotfest anyway. I mean, all the Diva DVDs sell, right?

 

I just don't think he's a good wrestler....

[Guest THE MIGHTY THOR]

Actually, I think that the Ultimate Warrior was a better worker as well. He was less sloppy, that's for sure. He had more emotion too...which does actually matter.

 

Rob Van Dam has never had a match as good as Warrior/Savage at Mania 7.

RVD has a much better move-set. He also sells a hell of a lot more. Honestly, any bodybuilder could've done what Hellwig did.

 

And that match had nothing to do with Warrior AT ALL. It was quite possibly the best carry-job ever.

No...I think that would be Jerry Lynn making RVD look good NUMEROUS times. THAT is a carry job.

 

And as for a moveset, you mean a spotset don't you? Honestly, most of his moves are flips FOR NO REASON, shitty kicks, and bad forearms. Throw out the 5-star frogsplash and split-legged moonsault, and RVD doesn't have any move worth a shit.

If you are not trolling then there's something wrong with you, there's no chance in hell u are actually comparing RVD to the Ultimate Warrior, even my turd has more charisma than the Warrior. If you want for people to hear you out stop coming out with this outlandish shit, otherwise they know you are not being serious about the topic or too immature to make a point.And i'm not just talking about u but i mean in general.

[Guest THE MIGHTY THOR]

You know, come to think of it, an RVD DVD most likely would sell. He brought a lot of new things to WWE early in his career. It's just that WWE style and having to incorporate transition moves, I feel, killed his offense. He can bump well, but he can't sell.

 

None of those things really matter when you're just watching a spotfest anyway. I mean, all the Diva DVDs sell, right?

 

I just don't think he's a good wrestler....

Nobody said he was, but his matches are entertaining enough IMO, let me say it again IMO to be a good DVD seller.

[Guest JMA]

No...I think that would be Jerry Lynn making RVD look good NUMEROUS times. THAT is a carry job.

 

And as for a moveset, you mean a spotset don't you? Honestly, most of his moves are flips FOR NO REASON, shitty kicks, and bad forearms. Throw out the 5-star frogsplash and split-legged moonsault, and RVD doesn't have any move worth a shit.

I doubt you'd think his kicks were "shitty" if you were the worker taking them. Personally, I like MOST stiff workers (there are exceptions). As for his move-set, yeah, I do like it. He can also adapt quickly to wherever his opponent is in the ring.

 

Comparing him to The Ultimate Warrior is just crossing the line, though.

[Guest Coffey]

Dude, The Ultimate Warrior, if he had ANYTHING AT ALL, DEFINITELY had charisma. That's the one thing he never lacked. He might not have been the best in the ring, but he had charisma. Not the best talker, but mic skills isn't the only thing that has to do with having charisma. He had a feel about him. He just put off an aura. That's charisma. The Rock has it along with humor. The Warrior definitely had charisma.

 

At one time I thought RVD did too.

[Guest THE MIGHTY THOR]

He does, it's just that WWE are refusing in doing something with it.

[Guest Coffey]

No...I think that would be Jerry Lynn making RVD look good NUMEROUS times. THAT is a carry job.

 

And as for a moveset, you mean a spotset don't you?  Honestly, most of his moves are flips FOR NO REASON, shitty kicks, and bad forearms.  Throw out the 5-star frogsplash and split-legged moonsault, and RVD doesn't have any move worth a shit.

I doubt you'd think his kicks were "shitty" if you were the worker taking them. Personally, I like MOST stiff workers (there are exceptions). As for his move-set, yeah, I do like it. He can also adapt quickly to wherever his opponent is in the ring.

 

Comparing him to The Ultimate Warrior is just crossing the line, though.

Stiffing people in WWE isn't something to be proud of, dude. WWE is not AJPW or Low-Ki against Samoa Joe in RoH.

 

That just makes them more shitty to me. Either he has to "fake" them, and they look awful as all hell (like his forearms) or he has to connect with them, stiffing his opponent, and on several occasions, busting them open "hard way."

 

That's not a positive trait. That's the work of a bad wrestler.

[Guest JMA]

Stiffing people in WWE isn't something to be proud of, dude. WWE is not AJPW or Low-Ki against Samoa Joe in RoH.

 

That just makes them more shitty to me. Either he has to "fake" them, and they look awful as all hell (like his forearms) or he has to connect with them, stiffing his opponent, and on several occasions, busting them open "hard way."

 

That's not a positive trait. That's the work of a bad wrestler.

I don't consider stiffness to be a trait of a bad worker. Just a worker with a different style.

 

Hell, Vader is incredibly stiff but he's a good worker.

[Michrome 0]

You don't get it. Vader makes his stuff look awesome, but he's really stiff in the process, and it plays into matches. RVD's kicks look like shit, and he hurts people legit with them. That's two bad things at once. Watch Samoa Joe throw some stiff kicks and get the crowd way riled up, and then go watch RVD catch a wrestler with the point of his boot, giving them a black eye. There's a huge difference.

[The Man in Blak 0]

Rob Van Dam has never had a match as good as Warrior/Savage at Mania 7.

 

1. It's been said before, but it's worth reiterating - don't forget that Savage was a part of that match. Savage is severely underrated in his workrate and, in my opinion, he basically carried much of this affair.

2. Much of the quality behind the Savage/Warrior match doesn't even lie in the workrate, but - instead - in the booking and plotlines involved. There's no compelling ground work or chain wrestling, but there's a lot of animosity coming to a head. Both guys have plenty of charisma, Savage can sell like a madman and, thus, they were able to play to their strengths within that match.

 

That's why I really kind of dislike snowflakes, personally, because one guy's **** match is another man's wrestlecrap nominee (see: NWA-TNA's first Ultimate X disaster). Savage/Warrior and, say, Benoit/Malenko at Road Wild are both excellent matches, but for different reasons. Just because Warrior has participated in some well-booked events doesn't make him Bret Hart.

 

RVD certainly isn't the best worker on the planet, but he holds his own very well and, in terms of moveset, is different (and, hence, more interesting) than many of the WWE workers.

 

So he does some flips. He's a showboat, a self-confident guy - that's his character. Of course, curtain jerking for almost a year straight has made him make a caricature out of that character, for the purposes of getting a good opening response from the crowd. Plus, let's not forget that WWE officials have asked him to nerf (tone down) a lot of what he does in the ring.

 

His selling is about average, with most of the WWE roster - sure, he had an abomination of a match with Benoit where he neglected some very obvious legwork, but the rest of his work hasn't necessarily been offensive, especially when you consider the other luminaries that are being pushed before him.

 

You can choose to not like RVD - that's perfectly fine, of course. But when you compare RVD to one of the biggest one-note gimmicks of all time, you're making a truly unfair comparison and inviting a lot of criticism to come your way.

[The Man in Blak 0]

You don't get it. Vader makes his stuff look awesome, but he's really stiff in the process, and it plays into matches. RVD's kicks look like shit, and he hurts people legit with them. That's two bad things at once. Watch Samoa Joe throw some stiff kicks and get the crowd way riled up, and then go watch RVD catch a wrestler with the point of his boot, giving them a black eye. There's a huge difference.

Uh, stiffness is stiffness. The difference is that, while Samoa Joe is booked to be a stiff fucking monster and paired up in the ring with people who are willing to take that abuse, Rob Van Dam doesn't have the luxury of choosing between people who don't mind working that way, especially when many of them probably aren't even trained to take a kick like that correctly. There's maybe ten wrestlers in the entire WWE who'd be willing to get in the ring with Samoa Joe and take what he dishes out.

 

You can argue sloppy, but don't try to sell "good stiffness" versus "bad stiffness." It's all the same thing - the difference lies in the booking and whether the other wrestler is willing to take it (after all, a black eye "legitimizes" the business, doesn't it?)

[Michrome 0]

Good god...that one is going down in the legendary records of stupidity.

 

RVD is *sloppy*, he does not work stiff. Half of his kicks miss by a foot, and the other half hurt people legit. The guy is a joke. Have you seen his punches? Are you really trying to argue that he's attempting to work a stiff style? RVD makes Lance Storm's offense look like Vader--except when he fucks up, and hurts someone legit.

[cabbageboy 0]

I'm amazed as to why people are debating this. Of COURSE there should be an RVD DVD, hell they could do a 2 disc set if they wanted to (1 ECW, 1 WWF). I'd say that maybe people like Eddie should have one first though, since he has ECW, WCW, and WWF stuff to go through.

 

People forget some good angles RVD was involved in: Sabu respect feud, the WWF/ECW angle from 1997, the various stuff against the Dudleys with Sabu, the Lynn feud, etc.

 

On the WWF disc it'd be easy to chronicle the initial reaction RVD got during the Invasion angle, the Jeff stuff, the Jericho match from Unforgiven, his problems in the Alliance with Austin, then his IC matches with Eddie. For the love of god stop after SS 2002 though, his career has been shit since.

[Guest Choken One]

Will It Sell? Yes.

Will it Make WWE Money? Yes

 

What's the problem?

 

Oh Wait...It's not a Benoit.

 

If ANYTHING isn't Benoit-related...It sucks right. Of course How could I forget.

 

Selling DVD's is to make MONEY.

 

If they made DVD's to reaward good things, Then why is Gigli available for $6.99 at Wal-Mart?

[The Man in Blak 0]

Good god...that one is going down in the legendary records of stupidity.

 

RVD is *sloppy*, he does not work stiff.  Half of his kicks miss by a foot, and the other half hurt people legit.  The guy is a joke.  Have you seen his punches?  Are you really trying to argue that he's attempting to work a stiff style?  RVD makes Lance Storm's offense look like Vader--except when he fucks up, and hurts someone legit.

*re-reads post*

 

Sorry, I misread what you were saying. I thought you were the one arguing that he was working that style, with the comparisons to Vader and Samoa Joe (Hence, why I said "you can argue sloppy").

 

My mistake. S'what I get for quickly glancing over your post after writing the longer one.

[nl5xsk1 0]

Dude, The Ultimate Warrior, if he had ANYTHING AT ALL, DEFINITELY had charisma. That's the one thing he never lacked. He might not have been the best in the ring, but he had charisma. Not the best talker, but mic skills isn't the only thing that has to do with having charisma. He had a feel about him. He just put off an aura. That's charisma. The Rock has it along with humor. The Warrior definitely had charisma.

 

At one time I thought RVD did too.

Warrior's charisma had a lot to do with the way that he was booked. Think of him in his greener days (either as Rock of the Blade Runners or as the Dingo Warrior in WCCW) - he came across as a stiff. It was only when he was given the 'run in, shoulderblock the guy a few times, shake the ropes and pin him after a splash' image was he viewed as being charismatic.

[Michrome 0]

Will It Sell? Yes.

Will it Make WWE Money? Yes

 

What's the problem?

 

Oh Wait...It's not a Benoit.

 

If ANYTHING isn't Benoit-related...It sucks right. Of course How could I forget.

 

Selling DVD's is to make MONEY.

 

If they made DVD's to reaward good things, Then why is Gigli available for $6.99 at Wal-Mart?

 

You would be laughed off the third grade debate team. Nobody is even talking about Benoit, you twat. The main people saying RVD sucks are even acknowledging that it would sell well, we're just arguing that RVD is a bad wrestler. I can't wait for your next thrilling point. Moron.

[Guest Trivia247]

From the Smarks yes.....from the old ECW fans turn WWE fans probably as well..

 

but the Main stream fans that didn't know about RVD till ECW went national for about 2 months before closing I don't know.

 

besides you know the WWE is queezy giving anyone they didn't invent themselves too much promotion

[NYU 0]

Will It Sell? Yes.

Will it Make WWE Money? Yes

 

What's the problem?

 

Oh Wait...It's not a Benoit.

 

If ANYTHING isn't Benoit-related...It sucks right. Of course How could I forget.

 

Selling DVD's is to make MONEY.

 

If they made DVD's to reaward good things, Then why is Gigli available for $6.99 at Wal-Mart?

 

You would be laughed off the third grade debate team. Nobody is even talking about Benoit, you twat. The main people saying RVD sucks are even acknowledging that it would sell well, we're just arguing that RVD is a bad wrestler. I can't wait for your next thrilling point. Moron.

Well, to be fair, this isn't what the topic is about anyway.

 

The topic is about whether or not a RVD DVD would be a good idea, whether or not it would sell, what kind of matches we should put on it, etc.

 

I don't see how this thread turned into another "RVD is a shitty wrestler" topic.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Yet another RVD thread run off track by the usual suspects.

 

The original post says "WWE could make some money off it, no?"

 

Immediatly slammed with 2 pages of "RVD sucks" posts.

 

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

[Michrome 0]

These kinds of things always turn into debates over the quality of the guy that the supposed DVD would be based on. It happened with Cena, and it will happen with RVD if they ever make a matchlisting. Some people think his matches are great, some don't. It's a natural progression of a topic based on a DVD being made for one guy. Stop trying to excuse the stupidity of the anti-smark brigade, which, amazingly enough, is even more obnoxious than the full blown smark brigade.

[Guest Your Olympic Hero]

It's because he's RVD and the WWE doesn't like him.

[NoCalMike 0]

Ok I labeled the guy a troll because this is an RVD DVD Debate, not an RVD, how do you rate him as a worker debate. So I consider comparing RVD to Warrior, a stupid comment no matter what the forum(sanz hardcore forum) The guy has since come to his senses and admitted an RVD dvd would probably sell well, so I guess I can lift my "troll" opinion

[Guest JMA]

It's because he's RVD and the WWE doesn't like him.

Nothing more need be said.

[Guest MikeSC]

b) if they marketed it right (e.g. showed some of his bumps and risks from ECW) then the marks would buy it.  Watching him somersault from the ropes into the crowd is not something that the WWE sheep see everyday, and if given teaser clips of bumps like that, people would buy it.

Irony is anybody calling for ECW footage calling WWE fans "sheep".

-=Mike

[cabbageboy 0]

RVD got by with a lot of stuff in ECW because they could edit the tape for TV. Thus, a lot of his stalling, missed spots, etc. never saw the light of day on TV. Also, ECW matches had this kinetic energy and vibe to them....the crowds were just so rabid that it covered some of the weaknesses of the wrestlers.

 

I'm a very big RVD fan even now, and I find it sad to see him not giving a shit anymore and just cashing the check. When he's motivated and in the proper environment, he's amazing (say in a hardcore match or a ladder match, most times). However, he's been shit on so much over the past 1 1/2 years that he just doesn't care, and you can tell.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

RVD got by with a lot of stuff in ECW because they could edit the tape for TV. Thus, a lot of his stalling, missed spots, etc. never saw the light of day on TV. Also, ECW matches had this kinetic energy and vibe to them....the crowds were just so rabid that it covered some of the weaknesses of the wrestlers.

 

I'm a very big RVD fan even now, and I find it sad to see him not giving a shit anymore and just cashing the check. When he's motivated and in the proper environment, he's amazing (say in a hardcore match or a ladder match, most times). However, he's been shit on so much over the past 1 1/2 years that he just doesn't care, and you can tell.

I thank HHH for exposing RVD as shit. [/not sarcasm]

 

Most people I know (not Message board marks) think RVD sucks and wouldn't buy a DVD of him. Sadly, they would buy Brock Lesnars (ugh) or John Cenas.

 

And back to earlier, who the HELL was talking about Chris Benoit in this thread? Flame meet Bait.