Anyone else sick of this forced on sap of 9-11?

[Guest Sassquatch]

I'm sorry to get off track here, but count me in as one of the "haters" of Ashcroft.

 

THAT right there is one of Dubbya's biggest mistakes in his tenure so far.

 

Carry on...

[Guest TheMikeSC]

I'm sorry to get off track here, but count me in as one of the "haters" of Ashcroft.

 

THAT right there is one of Dubbya's biggest mistakes in his tenure so far.

 

Carry on...

 

 

 

Nobody LIKES Ashcroft (heck, I'm the closest thing to a defender he has here and I don't like the guy too much)---but I still say Norman Mineta is a bigger joke.

 

Having airport security frisk old woman and old men so as to avoid looking "prejudiced" against Arabs is idiotic and a waste of resources.

                      -=Mike

 

...And, since Bush says he'll sign the Campaign Finance Reform bill, Ashcroft couldn't be his biggest mistake---signing the bill will be.

[Guest J*ingus]

Hell, frisking anyone isn't doing a helluva lot of good.  All the new security procedures didn't find that shoe bomb.  A friend of mine even related an anecdote to me where she was searched three times in an airport, and her 2-year-old daughter was frisked (!), yet they failed to find the knife she'd hidden in her stuff.  (Yeah, my friend is more than a little odd.)  They did, however, lecture her sternly every time they found her nail clippers.  Ugh.  Security my ass, this is nothing but a hassle.

[Guest Crazy Dan]

I think that we should always remember Sept 11.  It shows that even the greatest country is vulnerable to tragedy.  But, as Bush pointed out, the best thing we can do is to return to normalcy.  To go back to our jobs, to take that vacation, to buy that new car.  Yet, the tradgedy should never be forgotten, nor the acts of heroism that happened afterwards.  

 

As for Bush, I think he did very good job handling the situation.  It was like he metamorphized in one act(when he broke down crying, showing emotion) into a strong leader.  I might not agree with all of his beliefs and agendas, I didn't vote for Bush either, but even I can admit he handled the situation very well.  He did help the country through a great tragedy, and that I can respect him for that.

 

But, I agree John Ashcroft is a complete jackass.  I also don't like Gale Norton either(funny the two main Cabinet members who people had a problem with, go figure) but that is a whole different topic all together.

 

Sure, we should get over the tragedy, go on living our lives, but we should never, ever forget what happened.  Because those who forget the past, are doomed to repeat it.

[Guest big Dante Cruz]

Let's take it a step further.  The US public is, by a large margin, the most giving body there's ever been.  In our history's time, the US public gave more to charities and such than all other nations combined.

 

We give plenty.  Then people try to shame us into giving more.

[Guest Loss4Words]

More annoying than the constant 09/11 reminders to me are the people who are being patriotic because it's fashionable. I don't recall seeing so many American flags on cars and in front of homes before, but now, everyone is doing it. It disgusts me because it's just a bandwagon more than anything. Maybe part of the problem is that I consider myself more of a world citizen than an American citizen and think that we should drop the "greatest country in the world" nonsense and realize that it's not some sort of competition with other countries and there's no trophy for the winner. I don't know, maybe I'm the one in the wrong here.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I don't know if patriotism for any reason can be wrong...it's not exactly like being a bandwagon Yankees fan...If your country never did anything...maybe you wouldn't be patriotic.

 

Here's a test:

 

Hey, canadians...are you patriotic?

 

Your country doesn't do anything.

 

Oooh burn.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

More annoying than the constant 09/11 reminders to me are the people who are being patriotic because it's fashionable. I don't recall seeing so many American flags on cars and in front of homes before, but now, everyone is doing it. It disgusts me because it's just a bandwagon more than anything. Maybe part of the problem is that I consider myself more of a world citizen than an American citizen and think that we should drop the "greatest country in the world" nonsense and realize that it's not some sort of competition with other countries and there's no trophy for the winner. I don't know, maybe I'm the one in the wrong here. >>

 

 

I actually feel for you.

 

You're more of a "world citizen" than an American citizen.

 

You act as if being an American is a BAD thing.

 

We do more good than any country out there. Nobody even APPROACHES us in terms of good acts.

 

Are we the best country out there? Absolutely. We're more free, more prosperous, and more powerful.

 

You don't hear of too many people dying in rafts to try and reach France, do you?

                        -=Mike

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Eh....fuck it.

 

We are the greatest country in the world.

 

If you got it flaunt it.

 

What the fuck is a "world citizen" anyway?  Is that like...you're just as much Somalian as American as British as Japanese as Iranian?  That's weird.  If only because of the philosophical, religious, language and topographical differences

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

i'm canadian and i'm patriotic, and to say canada doesn't do anything is unfair, bps21. we're over in afganhistan too. we donate money just like america even though we have no where near the wealth of your country.

 

there was something else we did too...oh yeah kick team usa's collective asses at hockey. (sorry we're really really proud of that.)

 

it's kinda unfair to compare canada to america:

 

canada 30 million people

america 300 million people (maybe more?)

 

you guys have enough money to buy and sell canada a thousand times over. at least.

 

but we're still involved in world issues, we go to the countries america goes to we help, we do what we can. canada is respected throughout the world.

 

the fact that we beat you at hockey is incrediable for example: with your huge population, and all the money your government puts towards sports you should have crushed us. our government gives practiclly nothing to sports but we still beat you.

 

anyway just wanted to have my say. (don't take this as america bashin, i've got nothing against americans.)

[Guest DrTom]

"I don't know if patriotism for any reason can be wrong..."

 

It can't really be wrong, but I think it's something you have to be careful with.  Patriotism can easily lead to jingoism and nationalism.  Nationalism, of course, brings with it all kinds of problems, and a wealthy, dubious past history of abuse.

[Guest Loss4Words]

"I actually feel for you."

 

Thanks for the sentiment, I guess.

 

"You're more of a "world citizen" than an American citizen.

 

You act as if being an American is a BAD thing."

 

Actually, no. That's my point. But I don't think it's a "bad thing" to be a Palestinian or a British person or a Japanese person or anything else for that matter. Distance is all relative anyway. Why should I get anymore disheartened when I hear about Americans dying than if I heard about a bunch of French people dying? Make no mistake, I *was* disheartened about it, but I don't think Americans are superior beings. I just think we're equal. It bothers me when a large group of people become defined by a small group of leaders.

 

"We do more good than any country out there. Nobody even APPROACHES us in terms of good acts."

 

What I don't understand is the us versus them philosophy? Why do we have to segregate ourselves as Americans? Are you saying that just because someone happened to be born halfway across the planet from you that you're better than they are?

 

"Are we the best country out there? Absolutely. We're more free, more prosperous, and more powerful."

 

Why does that matter? Why does it matter at all? Sometimes, I get sick of the American train of thought which is often similar to bragging about penis size in a high school locker room. I'm trying to carefully choose my words here to avoid someone really going off on me, but would I be any less of a person if Japan happened to be a little more free, prosperous or powerful? People who obsess themselves with being number one usually self-destruct because ego and greed overtakes reason and conscience.

 

"You don't hear of too many people dying in rafts to try and reach France, do you?

                       -=Mike"

 

In just the same way you never hear any egotistical leaders constantly refer to themselves as leaders of the greatest country in the world, like it's a beauty pagent or something. It actually reminds me quite a bit of how WCW and the WWF used to climb for the top of that imaginary mountain that was so meaningless in the long run.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

"I actually feel for you."

 

Thanks for the sentiment, I guess.

 

 

 

Hey, I try.

 

 

 

"You're more of a "world citizen" than an American citizen.

 

You act as if being an American is a BAD thing."

 

Actually, no. That's my point. But I don't think it's a "bad thing" to be a Palestinian or a British person or a Japanese person or anything else for that matter.

 

 

 

And who said that it is a bad thing?

 

 

 

Distance is all relative anyway. Why should I get anymore disheartened when I hear about Americans dying than if I heard about a bunch of French people dying?

 

 

Nobody is saying you should. Death is a bad thing. If thousands of Frenchmen were killed when a plane plowed into the Eiffel Tower and toppled it into a crowd, I'd be just as supportive of any attempts to bring those terrorists to justice.

 

 

 

Make no mistake, I *was* disheartened about it, but I don't think Americans are superior beings. I just think we're equal. It bothers me when a large group of people become defined by a small group of leaders.

 

 

 

I don't think Americans are equal---but I feel our government system is the best as is our economic system.

 

 

 

"We do more good than any country out there. Nobody even APPROACHES us in terms of good acts."

 

What I don't understand is the us versus them philosophy? Why do we have to segregate ourselves as Americans?

 

 

Because WE are the ones who get criticized more than anybody else.

 

 

Are you saying that just because someone happened to be born halfway across the planet from you that you're better than they are?

 

 

 

Did I ever say that I was better than anyone?

 

I WILL point out that the world bashes us constantly and it's about time that the U.S responds. It's about time for Americans to sit back and actually say that their country is GOOD. Screw what multiculturalists wish to tell you. We have bad parts, but on the whole, we are an exceptionally good country and pride in the U.S is nothing but a good thing.

 

 

"Are we the best country out there? Absolutely. We're more free, more prosperous, and more powerful."

 

 

Why does that matter? Why does it matter at all? Sometimes, I get sick of the American train of thought which is often similar to bragging about penis size in a high school locker room. I'm trying to carefully choose my words here to avoid someone really going off on me, but would I be any less of a person if Japan happened to be a little more free, prosperous or powerful?

 

 

Nope---and if you ask a Japanese citizen, they'd feel that Japan was the best country on Earth.

 

 

 

People who obsess themselves with being number one usually self-destruct because ego and greed overtakes reason and conscience.

 

"You don't hear of too many people dying in rafts to try and reach France, do you?

                      -=Mike"

 

In just the same way you never hear any egotistical leaders constantly refer to themselves as leaders of the greatest country in the world, like it's a beauty pagent or something.

 

 

No, many of them nitpick the U.S then beg us to help them out of whatever problem exists in their corner of the world.

 

Sad commentary, but far too accurate.

 

 

 

It actually reminds me quite a bit of how WCW and the WWF used to climb for the top of that imaginary mountain that was so meaningless in the long run.

 

 

 

Well, WCW basically ceased to exist, so it's not THAT meaningless.

                -=Mike

[Guest]

So that means no one should ever offer to lend us a hand?  Or express sympathy at our tragedies?  You're sounding isolationist and myopic now.  We have allies in the world because we can't do everything ourselves.  I'll make sure to pass along your suggestion to refuse all foreign aid and sympathy the next time I'm in Washington, though.

 

I hope you're not saying that the rest of the world don't express sympathy at your tragedies.

[Guest]

In terms of money and power americans are better than most, if not everyone.But all HUMAN BEINGS are equal.

 

Every rich country in the world give money to help suffering country's. Americans give more because they have more money.

 

It's as simple as that IMO.

[Guest muzanisa]

In Europe where it's thankfully become unexceptable in most places to express racist sentiments based on the colour of someones skin; it's still acceptable to say that you hate Americans. If you want an example of this P.J O'Rourke has some good ones in Holidays in Hell. The reasons are based on envy and what is fed to us through the media. We get Jerry Springer over here and people watch it and assume all Americans are like that. We watch the news bulletins that portray every American in an extended mourning period and totally uncritical of George W Bush. If you want comparisons I've been extended sympathy for the Queen Mother dying from people in other countries when I and everyone I know couldn't give a rats arse about the old Parasite passing on.

You get criticised when there's no need. Like in Argentina you're getting the blame for them not managing their economy. You also get flak that you do deserve such as the scrapping of the Kyoto treaty (Although Enviromentalism started in the States.)

But you're in a privaledged posistion living in the most prosperous country on Earth and your posistion in the Aid giving stakes reflects that. If you want everyone to kiss your arse for this I'm afraid that you're going to have a long wait as most people are as misinformed and prejudical about the States as most of you are about the rest of the World.

Whoever said that people aren't dying getting into France you're wrong. People are dying in the back of Trucks and on Railways. Every well off Country receives migrants.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

In Europe where it's thankfully become unexceptable in most places to express racist sentiments based on the colour of someones skin; it's still acceptable to say that you hate Americans.

same in Canada. everybody here loves american jokes.

 

i make american jokes smetimes but i don't hate all americans it's just that since we live right next to america it's worse.

 

i think in most countries america is made fun of. whether it's deserved or not.

[Guest DrTom]

"I hope you're not saying that the rest of the world don't express sympathy at your tragedies."

 

I thought what I was saying was perfectly clear, and that clearly wasn't it.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

i make american jokes smetimes but i don't hate all americans it's just that since we live right next to america it's worse.

 

i think in most countries america is made fun of. whether it's deserved or not.

I make jokes about Canada, France, Germany, Austria, Poland, Sweden, Ireland, Scotland, China, Japan, the Middle East, Mexico....hell I make jokes about almost every country including some of the people from the United States.

 

In response to your quote about the U.S. being made fun of. Some people are probably jealous, the U.S. is a loud in your face country, that really doesn't listen to the international community very often.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

In Europe where it's thankfully become unexceptable in most places to express racist sentiments based on the colour of someones skin>>>

 

 

Ironically, though, the enlightened Europeans tend to be considerably MORE racist than America.

 

It shouldn't be THAT shocking---America initially inherited European values---clearly, racism was one of them.

 

 

<<<; it's still acceptable to say that you hate Americans. If you want an example of this P.J O'Rourke has some good ones in Holidays in Hell. The reasons are based on envy and what is fed to us through the media. We get Jerry Springer over here and people watch it and assume all Americans are like that. We watch the news bulletins that portray every American in an extended mourning period and totally uncritical of George W Bush. If you want comparisons I've been extended sympathy for the Queen Mother dying from people in other countries when I and everyone I know couldn't give a rats arse about the old Parasite passing on.>>>

 

 

I always assumed the British royal family was nigh irrelevant in the U.K.

 

And, trust me, Bush gets attacked regularly here. The Demcrats STILL wish to attempt to paint him as the illegitimate President.

 

 

<<<You get criticised when there's no need. Like in Argentina you're getting the blame for them not managing their economy. You also get flak that you do deserve such as the scrapping of the Kyoto treaty (Although Enviromentalism started in the States.) >>>

 

 

The Kyoto Accords was a horrible treaty based on pseudo-science. We should have not only scrapped it, we should have tossed it on the ground and urinated on it.

 

And, as National Review pointed out, it tends to be easy for Europeans to worry about the fate of forests around the world since they already levelled most of their own forests.

 

And, since this hasn't been played up much, NOBODY is following the Kyoto Accords---not even Japan.

 

 

<<<But you're in a privaledged posistion living in the most prosperous country on Earth and your posistion in the Aid giving stakes reflects that. If you want everyone to kiss your arse for this I'm afraid that you're going to have a long wait as most people are as misinformed and prejudical about the States as most of you are about the rest of the World.

Whoever said that people aren't dying getting into France you're wrong. People are dying in the back of Trucks and on Railways. Every well off Country receives migrants.>>>

 

 

True---but we could have far more European immigrants if we ever let up on our quota.

 

I still don't know why Third World countries basically have no cap on how many immigrants we accept from them, but Europe has very stiff caps. Seems that a European would more easily adapt to America than most anybody else.

                    -=Mike

 

...Who also thinks Europe's support of the International Criminal Court is laughable.

[Guest BATMANvsJESUS]

I have to agree that it's been WAY overblown.  I liked the show of respect when people had the flags and such.  I was fine with that, but when all these t-shirts, hats, posters, albums, concerts and such came out I was like "Well, ok...as long as we get victims families some money."  But then I got sick and tired of seeing "I HEART NY" because anybody who's been there will admit it's a pretty shitty place for the most part with some of the RUDEST people in the world.  Hardly anybody says hi to each other and all sorts of shit.  I mean, when Oklahoma City's federal building blew up you didn't see "I HEART OKC" everywhere!  Not that I care, but just because NYC is a pile of mainstream culture-dogshit, it get's all this attention.  Anybody remember the Pentagon?  Shit happened to it, too!  Remember the courageous people who brought down the plane in Pennsylvania?  Nah, that's not NYC!  That's not cool!  "They don't hardly even have any art galaries there!" screams the media as they beg people to throw some money in an invisable pot so we can see another FABULOUS Woody Allen movie.  Whoopdie-FUCKIN-DOO!  I could care less about NYC....all I care about are the poor people who died or were injured.  I'll give them money, and I have.  I gave because nobody deserves trauma like that, but nobody deserves that much attention either.  It makes America look like a bunch of fucking pussies.  So do I love America?  Yes.  Do I think terrorism is cowardly and bullshit?  Yes.  Should NYC and the media grow some balls and shut up already?  YES!